Patch Announcement: Factions
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 3:10 pm |
This post describes the implementation of factions and related changes to fame and reputation that I will be patching in very soon (probably tomorrow morning). I’m just rechecking the code.
Some additional items remain to be done but the details below will form the core of the new factions system. I would ask you to keep a close eye on your rep/fame with the various towns and your rep with the factions and NPC arena gangs. Let me know if they’re changing at a reasonable rate, and whether the effects of them are noticeable but not too strong. The more I can get help and feedback on this stuff in operation, the quicker it can be tweaked to balance correctly. A number of minor bugs are likely since retrofitting the per-town code for rep. fame and bounties involved many changes throughout the various bits of software running the game. Please bear with me on this and report any weirdnesses here! General Points · Fame and Reputation will be displayed as descriptive text rather than as numbers · You’ll see the new details shown on gang pages, town pages and various other relevant places Towns · Fame and Reputation will be stored on a per-town basis. So you can be famous/liked in SS and unknown or disliked in BL, for example. · Each town is affiliated primarily with one of the factions, and your town rep. will be very similar to your rep. with that faction · If you’re hated in a town, you will not be able to escape at the gates · If you’re hated in a town, any squads you control may be attacked by the town militia at the gates (these are the same as bountyhunter hits) · Towns may hike gates fees, lockup fees, garage fees if they hate you; they may reduce gates fees, lockup fees and garage fees if they like you. · Any characters in a town where you’re disliked can occasionally be beaten up by local thugs. (This manifests as minor injuries such as broken arms). · You can now modify your hometown. Requires: high rep and fame in that town; substantial percentage of gangers there. Your squads pay reduced gates fees when entering your home town · Global Fame will be an average of your fame in all towns. Desert hyenas: new rule is max 50 global fame (not 150) to scout against them · Local fame in a town, rather than global fame, affects the likelihood of recruiting good characters. The Recruiter specialism is also required in the actual town of recruitment if you wish to use it. Faction Reputation · Your reputation with a faction can change at various times: wilderness combats (depending on how much injury you caused); roleplaying missions (e.g. Racing for the Mob will potentially earn/lose you rep. with the Deathracing Mafia faction); escort missions; assassination missions · Note that factions also have inter-relationships, so gaining reputation with one will automatically gain some with its allies and lose some with its enemies, depending on the strength of association between them and on your own local fame · If you have a very negative rep. with the NPC faction that beats you in a wilderness combat, they might murder your remaining characters. You will have the option to do the same thing to them, if they’re enemies (at a large rep cost versus them and potentially in the local town also) – you’d earn bounties also if applicable, in this case. · In terms of trucing/attacking, a squad’s faction affiliations are determined by those of the squad owner. In other ways (e.g. if the NPCs kill hostages at the end of a combat) the individual player gang’s faction affiliations are used. · The code that matches you up against an enemy while scouting will wherever possible avoid matching you with gangs whose faction you’re friendly with. This is not true in travel, where you might meet anyone. · NPC attacks on camps will not be carried out by NPCs who’s faction are in positive rep with the camp owner · Some factions are liable to order contract hits on their enemies · All wilderness combat-related faction rep. effects are scaled according to the local fame of your squad. So it's possible to operate "out of character" and get away with it, more-or-less, by doing so in a region where you're unknown. Trucing · Friendly gangs (and all trader gangs, friend or foe) may offer you a truce · The chance of a truce proposed by you being accepted is now mostly to do with your negotiator skill Per-Gang Reputation · Factions only apply to wilderness interactions. Within the arena and racetrack, your relationships with NPC gangs are handled on a per-gang basis; so individual NPC gangs may grow to like or dislike you and will behave accordingly. · Actions such as firing on them when they have resigned will lose reputation with them, or ceasing fire when they resign will gain it · Firing on peds in arena/deathrace events is always considered to be rep.-loss behaviour. (Ped combats aren’t included in this of course). Faction-Specific Rules · Having high rep with the mutant faction will boost the percentage of your gang that can be mutants, having a low rep with them will reduce this percentage. Having mutants in your gang (and especially if your leader is a mutant) will reduce your rep. with factions that hate mutants and increase your rep. with the mutant faction · I’m sure there’s some other circumstances that we can bring factions into play, in order to make each one unique and related to play-style choices. I have a number of ideas I’m planning to work on already, e.g. some nice ways for the Deathracing Mafia faction to play out. |
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 11, 2010, 3:32 pm |
This all seems quite soundly constructed... I'm sure I'll have boundless amounts of questions once I see all this in practice. | ||||||||||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 11, 2010, 3:36 pm |
Getting friendly with the slavers could be a getting out of jail (arena) free card, right? | ||||||||||||||||
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*Longo* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 3:41 pm |
My head is spinning. 
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Fealty Lost Posted Feb 11, 2010, 3:49 pm |
Wait...murdered?
Lot-o-newbs gonna be dead.... Mugged in town? Interesting. So...people who regularly hunt traders are going to have a hard time in BL and GW, correct? Can't wait. And what effect will it have on trader-hunters in Somerset and Elms and Sarsfield and Texan? Does this mean those militia will start jumping players when they return from trader-hunting? What about Hero Points in these places earned by trader-hunters? Can you be a hero when you're one of those low-life fence sitters that supplement their Fame/Rep with traders? Can't wait to see how this plays out. Should be a great addition to the game. Thanks for the effort and time spent, Sam. |
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Karz Master Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:10 pm |
My thoughts exactly. And just as I'm about to resub, too! |
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*Longo* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:10 pm |
Obviously Badlands is Badlands rep, but what will the others be? Also, will this mean that if you have good FL rep, you will now be able to escape in town in FL? |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:22 pm |
Should depend which traders you hunt. Hunting anarchist traders will presumably boost your rep with the civ faction?
Also, this seems like a good place to repost the web of relationship thingies I did a while back: First, friends and allies: 
Next, enemies: 
Size of the arrow shows strength of feeling, so the reds really hate the deathrace mafia, while the mafia aren't too bothered about the reds. Size of the ovals is a rough representation of the size of the faction. edit: Who is in what faction shown here. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:22 pm |
Good idea, I'll add that ASAP. |
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Flaming savage Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:25 pm |
I think this will be a great addition to the game. I'm sure you spent a while on this so I thank you greatly. this is gonna be awsome | ||||||||||||||||
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Nekojin Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:27 pm |
Potential minor roadbump: Will people who have done the Racing For The Mob quest line already have their reputations set accordingly? | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:30 pm |
Obviously I'm not aiming for that.. it may need balancing but the way I have it set up, a faction has to dislike you quite a lot before its gangs will murder your characters.
It depends on which traders they attack (see Factions Members). If you choose your targets carefully, you should be able to keep yourself safe in selected areas.
Potentially, yes.
Currently, yes. I haven't done anything yet to the HP system. Possibly you will be unable to gain HPs in a town where you're disliked.
Yer welcome :-) Yeah, I hope it will add a substantial amount of depth and roleplaying-flavour to your interactions with the NPCs, as well as forcing more complex strategic choices.
Thanks!
I wasn't going to do that, no. I'm not sure if the final outcome of that mission is recorded in the database.
Yes |
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Marrkos Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:43 pm |
Probably the perfect (and only) time to reset everybody's 'Completed RP Mission X' flag, so they can all be done again, and rep gets handled appropriately.
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:48 pm |
Possibly so, yes. Of course, the rep. change you get with the Deathrace Mafia due to that mission will wear off over a few weeks anyway.. you'll have to continue to behave appropriately towards their interests to keep it a certain way edit: now I think about it, maybe faction-rep shouldn't wear off at all? Maybe only town-fame should wear off? |
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Arganosh Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:50 pm |
I am guessing that there will be pirates traders we can hunt for? So those of us that like not getting shot at by town folks can have a chance to find a lorry or box van.
Will buying something on the market being sold by a gang with Bad rep in a town end up causing us to lose faction too? Because some folks might not like you dealing with the enemy. |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:52 pm |
did you ever put in the Reds hating the slavers with a passion.
as the biggest red gang in evan i can tell you i dont like them buggers one bit! |
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Arganosh Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:53 pm |
If they are true noobs it will be doubtful they have scouted enough to have that bad a rep to be murdered out of hand. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:57 pm |
Yes. I just added an indicator on the Factions page showing what "type" of gang each one is ( P, T, M, B )
Nice idea.. could be done, ye. Could be random maybe, depending on whether you get "seen". Maybe a new scouting specialism could be dreamed up.. "Fence" maybe? - this allows you to deal with enemies of the town without losing rep? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 4:59 pm |
Not yet, but I can. What strength should it be at, -80? I guess I'm getting "true" communist ideals mixed up with the reality of what we have seen happen in the real world. "True" communism is all about equality and therefore anti-slavery, right? |
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FireFly Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:09 pm |
Looking trough the list, there are so few pirate traders... but I guess that makes sense | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:17 pm |
Better to call them "Anarchist Traders" - avoids ambiguity. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:20 pm |
Maybe create a faction for the anarchist traders, related to the anarchists, like a subfaction? |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:24 pm |
Yay, I get another <absurdly powerful reward deleted> from Arizona!
Certainly rep should wear off lot more slowly than fame. The general public may forget you quickly, but the gang whose leader you murdered won't. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:24 pm |
I think you're missing part of the idea of factions there, FF. A faction is a group of gangs that have common interests - not necessarily all the same 'type' of gang.
The anarchist faction contains a lot of Pirates, plus a few Traders who do the actually shipment of goods for the pirates. They're non-law-abiding traders who have protection from the anarchists. |
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*viKKing* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:33 pm |
That announcement is a huge one.
Can't wait to see the patch released. 
Good job Sam. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:34 pm |
Ah yes, it's the kind of thing you'd approve of viKK 
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 11, 2010, 5:49 pm |
My head hurts 
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simonmaxhill Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:07 pm |
Heh. I'm definitely looking forwards to difficulties as I learn the ins and outs of this system. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:29 pm |
Probably just me being stupid... But what do the P,T,M,B mean exactly? Is it Pirates, Traders, Mutants and Bounty Hunters? Actually now that I see it in writing that has to be it...
Oh well, regardless this should play out quite nicely. Maybe if I start hunting down the Piratical Traders exclusively out of Elms the general Pirates might start coming back a little for more interesting fights. |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:33 pm |
I know Sam already mentioned this, but I want to add that this is one of the main draws to faction type play - it prevents you from being "good guy" for killing pirates and preventing you from hunting traders. It also prevents you from being "bad guy" and killing traders then going on a raiding party with other players looking for pirates... Okay - it doesn't PREVENT it but gives it a deeper meaning... 
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:39 pm |
Is there an ETA for these changes? The sooner the better! | ||||||||||||||||
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Zephyr Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:42 pm |
Yes, this all sounds extremely exciting. I am looking forward to exploring all the ins and outs of this per-faction rep system.
Thanks, Sam. |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:43 pm |
First post - Sam said "probably tomorrow" |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:49 pm |
So in about a week? I kid, I kid. 
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:50 pm |
Ha ha your new avatar is just as disturbing as your old one lmfao 
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Marrkos Posted Feb 11, 2010, 6:51 pm |
Pirate Trader Militia Bounty Hunter |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:01 pm |
so one day we log in we see our best ganger got beat up lol, sure a 20 skilled gangers gunna beat up our 200 skilled gangers. not like we would all hang out together 
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Nekojin Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:02 pm |
No, but a gang of 20 or 30 of them certainly would. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:04 pm |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:07 pm |
too bad camps suck or id just move all my guys into a camp
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:16 pm |
Just throwing the idea out there, but how about having a smaller chance at a gate encounter when arriving in a town that considers you friendly? | ||||||||||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:22 pm |
Yeah why wouldn't the Gates Encounter chances go down if the Militia likes you. Especially when having a town hates you will almost guarantee you an encounter WITH thier militia.
Oh, and as far as my new Avatar goes... Quagmire clearly founded the Old School Perverts, I merely took over for him when he stepped down...
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Marrkos Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:36 pm |
Sounds like a strong argument for lowering the Gang Roster Limit.
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 11, 2010, 7:43 pm |
hee hee everybody thought it...but you said it
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:02 am |
yep we are pre revolution.. not had tiome to be corrupted by the dachas and zils |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:12 am |
When the new Factions hit and start working, will hunting Piratika (sp?) on the anarchists faction hurt my rep? They are traders, but are also hated pirates.
Would really hope I can bring them down to size since there havn't been ANY pirate groups with any fame whatsoever in Elmsfield since I first set up there. |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:16 am |
Seriously, though, even with modern militaries, unpopular soldiers do get beat up when taking some R&R in local bars. Often, a bar brawl is involved in some way. So, yeah, even with "small armies" in town, that doesn't stop your gangers from getting roughed up by the locals. And that says nothing about what kind of injuries the locals received... "You shoulda seen the other guy!" |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 1:20 am |
Yes, but only toward the anarchists faction. You'll gain favor with the 'norms' and others. Will it hurt your Elms rep and cause a bounty like it does now? No - that's the whole point in the factions thing.
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Serephe Posted Feb 12, 2010, 1:31 am |
Everyone! |
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*Burden* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 1:39 am |
So, what if you're group scouting with a guy who hates pirates in the Reds faction, while you have a good standing with them? You'll be forced to kill people from that faction, or else you'd be a big lump of dead weight. Also, how can we avoid attacking demo'd vehicles if they're still attacking us as if they were 100% healthy? Usually we're forced to kill them or else we'll be killed ourselves. I think some sort of feature where, if an enemy is demod, you can tell them to "stay where they are and don't move, or else you'll open fire and kill them." Or perhaps have demod vehicles stay still if you have a weapon targeted at them, with los, is needed.
Edit: Oh wait, I read that wrong. I thought the "murder surviving gangers" meant to kill the gangers inside demod cars.
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Lord Foul Posted Feb 12, 2010, 1:56 am |
Maybe I missed it:
What happens when you’re hated by the town, have a militia gates encounter and you beat them? What happens when you’re hated by the town, you have a militia gates encounter and you simply escape at 350m? I'd have to assume you escape into town unnoticed? lol |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:22 am |
sure would be nice if we could make our own camp without having to worry about getting it stolen by a member of that camp if your gone for 6 weeks? then we wouldnt need the towns anyway? can scout from camp, we have a market we could sell to factions we like? cause trusting a member to watch the camp, hehe id never do that, not that stupid.
can anyone explain the rp reason why someone with no other members of a camp yer gone 6 months game time with yer crew at the camp, then come back to find someone else owns it? |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:54 am |
Hostile takeover. Your gangers weren't actually there to defend it (they meandered off to do their own things until you got back), so the takeover went without opposition. |
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Stingray191 Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:24 am |
So where will all this information be?
Gang page? |
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Marrkos Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:40 am |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:46 am |
Hostile takeover. Your gangers weren't actually there to defend it (they meandered off to do their own things until you got back), so the takeover went without opposition.
pretty stupid reason imo, guys are in the camp can close it and thats what vacation mode is for? more like the other players to poor, so they steal a camp, talk about being a griefer so these guys get all the cars and supplies and a new camp without doing any work to get it lol why ill never own another good  nerf sam yer best yet.
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:57 am |
Did you let your subscription lapse? You asked for an RP reason, I gave you an RP reason. If you want a gameplay reason, it's most likely that non-subscribed players can't own camps. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:42 am |
I plan to work on the concept of a small militia squad coming out to join an ongoing gates-fight, either against you or for you depending on your town-rep/fame |
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Serephe Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:46 am |
BADASS! Collision Force is going to war! | ||||||||||||||||
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Flaming savage Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:48 am |
I ask you not to forget spanky that you would never have had a camp if it weren't for Sam. You probably lost your camp because (as Neko said) you let your subscription run out. | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:48 am |
Yep. It's just like a normal encounter, so escape or win will get you into town.
There were a lot of complaints from camp members that the camp owners were going AWOL and that they couldn't do anything about it, leaving the camps unusable and untransferable. I like your RP explanation too Neko, maybe even more than darth does!
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:53 am |
who attacks camps anyway? nobody has there ever been a camp battle where both sides fought? but they can close camp lol that makes sence? not ever have to fight a player lol. yeah the poor complainers wouldnt be able to steal a camp then theyd have to build their own. my sub hasnt run out? just seems like bs to me you pay for a camp supply it then after 6 weeks even if yer subbed it goes to someone else yeah real fair, they want a camp build yer own not steal it without fighting for it. | ||||||||||||||||
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Flaming savage Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:56 am |
Were you away for 6 weeks or 6 months? | ||||||||||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 8:03 am |
last camp i owned was alos, i gave it back before i quit for 6 months. makes so much sence to pop in once every 5 weeks so ya dont loose it, even tho ya never use it better steal alos other camps or any other vet whose not subbed we wouldnt want they owning a camp they built and earned, then thell never come back, which is prolly why they do it to get rid of vets lol. players who own a camp wont ever have to worry about logging in to see there leader with broken arms lol, that they got magically without even fighting in a town, why not string them up and hang them? kill off all someones guys who doesnt get along with that town lol.
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 8:31 am |
Yes. It's very easy to maintain your camp simply by logging in every 5 weeks. You even get reminder emails. This means only camp owners who really aren't interested in playing any more lose their camps.
Nothing magical about it. If a town doesn't like your guys, they get occasionally beaten up in brawls and muggings.
But that'd be too severe, darth. Imagine the outcry and calls from the nerf-police! |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 8:33 am |
Here's an important point I missed in the original post:
All wilderness combat-related faction rep. effects are scaled according to the local fame of your squad. So it's possible to operate "out of character" and get away with it, more-or-less, by doing so in a region where you're unknown. And another one (less crucial): Local fame in a town, rather than global fame, affects the likelihood of recruiting good characters. The Recruiter specialism is also required in the actual town of recruitment if you wish to use it. |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:31 am |
so im in a town with 40 of my guys and my old low streanth leader gets beat up lol, yeah that makes sence, not like wed fight to protect her? will we loose permanent str after these fights? its magical because we cant decide outcome of that fight its automatic? can we burn the town to the ground? what ya think would happen if yer leader was attacked by local thugs? | ||||||||||||||||
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:41 am |
Who says they're not fighting to protect her? Maybe they just didn't get any injuries worth noting. If you're that worried about it, then hang out in towns where you're welcome.
Your piddly gang of 60-something thugs against a town of a few thousand civilians? Sorry, you lose, no matter how badass you may be. You start setting fire to important things, they kill you. You really want to push that button? |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:44 am |
I have to agree with spanky a little here...
I don't think shantyville has enough population to mess with my 30 man squad there,and if they had, it wouldn't be much longer
And neko, again, Shanty doesn't have the population to defend itself like that
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:46 am |
why would i want to hang out in a pirate town lol so i can hunt crapass traders? or the pirate player town of fl where thres no traders?
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:51 am |
Are you certain about that? It has resources enough to build a mini-town (something notably bigger than a Camp), and be home to at least a half-dozen pirate gangs. I'd peg it at a few hundred, minimum. Seriously, the weenie-wagging about having the occasional ganger get a minor injury in a bar brawl almost sounds like bad RP sessions, where people forget that you only declare your actual actions, not the outcomes of your actions. "I shoot the leader in the head, killing him." "Josh, you can't..." "And then, while his body's falling, I shoot the guns out of the hands of the two guys behind him!" |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:56 am |
If the scale of a factory is right, my camp is larger than shantyville
But honestly, I could not see people messing with a gang that has 30 - 40 people in smaller town like that, on the road maybe, but I have enough mortars in shanty to reduce it to rubble
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:56 am |
They *are* fighting to protect her (well, if any are available, of course.. naturally muggings are generally carried out on small groups of characters rather than then whole local gang). I'm sure injuries are indeed dealt in both directions. But since we're talking about NPC characters here who don't participate in other aspects of the game or get tracked in the database, it's irrelevant.
This is precisely it: I'm adding extra depth and consequences to your local reputation. Managing this extra depth is precisely how we're adding more detailed gameplay.
Darth, I don't claim to be omnipotent or to think of every possible angle when adding new features (especially complex ones like this). I expect you to work with me, in a rational way, in order to balance these things over the next couple of weeks. Flying off the handle at every opportunity only weakens your case. |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:01 am |
Again, this weenie-wagging is ridiculous. You're not just talking about wrecking a few buildings, you're talking about destroying the homes of several full gangs, as well as any civilians in the area. They will slaughter you. They outnumber you, pure and simple. If they all got together and massed their firepower against yours, you cannot hope to survive. Edit: Since we're talking logic, here... if Shanty was as easy to take out as you seem to think it is, why wouldn't Texan or BL have sent out a wrecking crew convoy and flattened it by now? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:02 am |
FF, you're probably also not realising that the graphical depictions you get of the towns in-game are not a realistic representation of their size. We're limited by the graphics engine and by polygon counts. | ||||||||||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:23 am |
Yeah, I know that was a little silly, but there is still the issue...
Maybe limit the "Bone breaking" to towns were you have a small force? Getting people hurt in towns were you have a small army of buzzers and skilled people, and not having the ability to retialiate, could be an issue... Now, if you could launch those "Muggings" againt other players with your own people, well, now we're talking
Oh, also, I were thinking more of another reason why individual gangs wouldn't "Mug" me in shantyville, if you'd like to look at my past events there, they never live long enough to be able to crack a plan like that
If they bunched together, thats another thing... |
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Karz Master Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:23 am |
I hear Darkwind 2 is going to be released on the Unreal Engine 3
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:36 am |
Fame Descriptors (most to least):
legendary famous notorious prominent renowned well known recognised anonymous Reputation Descriptors (most to least): honoured adored admired respected liked appreciated (neutral) unappreciated disliked scorned hated detested |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:38 am |
Sure, we can discuss these things when the patch has been added and we see the effects and how it's all working out. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:42 am |
Also, no "Neutral" standing? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:44 am |
There is a neutral standing, yes. It's displayed as a 'blank' when shown in combination with fame though.. you'll see when the patch is in. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:46 am |
Sometimes picking on the strongest, knowing you can beat them, proves a point far quicker than attacking the weakest link ' Who's the daddy' |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:50 am |
(Thats not a complaint, ask yourself that) |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:57 am |
It's very simple FF.. they wait until a small number of your gang, maybe 3 or 4 characters, are walking home at night, then they attack them with a much larger group. Opportunism. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:57 am |
wait till your asleep and bash you on the noggins
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 11:02 am |
If you knew the whole town hates you, would you really take those risks, I would just have my gang stick to their own corner of the town... |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 12, 2010, 11:06 am |
And even then some would wander off because they think there hard as nails, then those noggin's get bashed
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 11:07 am |
Guys.. we can figure out these sorts of details when we see the effect of the patch and how it plays out... it's not possible to pre-empt every subtle detail until we see it in operation. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 12, 2010, 11:11 am |
Agreed, its a beta lite implementation thats going to have many eyes watching the outcomes.
sam any chance of creating a forum section or Stickied post just for this kind of feedback on factions once implemented, or they will just float around on numerous threads
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 11:27 am |
Come on, FF. You've got a gang, not a crack military force. Maybe you've talked 'em into using the Buddy System, but they're not going to be spit-shines and formation-marching. They're going to sod off and get into trouble, just like gangers everywhere. They may be good shots with a Car Cannon, but they're not really the sharpest knives in the drawer, when it comes to common sense, you know what I mean?
And are your gangers going to stand around in the same room while Billy's visiting the local red light lean-to? A guy needs a little privacy, ya know? |
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lordbam Posted Feb 12, 2010, 11:54 am |
ok back to the point...
gamewise. Lets say i want to play an evil pirate without getting beaten up in town. Where do i find high fame trader gangs, and i'm not talking of the wimps in Elms and SS.... From what i undestand you can only play a carebare, or flee to FL and you can't hunt any traders down there... i'm not flaming, so plz correct me if i'm wrong |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:25 pm |
Shanty or BL, I would have thought. BL is only mildly friendly with the traders, and shanty is Anarchist. In fact, that's pretty much why Shanty exists, isn't it?
Hmm - I'm suddenly wondering if shanty should be run by the reds... |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:34 pm |
The muggings aren't going to be gamebreakers either way (just armbreakers.. er..) - minor injuries, only from time-to-time. So.. how about using a nearby camp as your base of operations, just sending small squads to town, briefly, while you're actually scouting? This minimises the potential beatings. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:36 pm |
Sure, yeah. I'll create a stickied thread in Bugs and another in Darkwind Discussion. If any more are needed, they're easy to create |
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lordbam Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:44 pm |
problem is these towns don't really have traders. BL: Impala Inc. (traders, Civs faction, fame 25) Shanty: none
There is only 1 camp near sars. What if i don't like the owner? Wouldn't more pirate towns be a solution? These towns could be implemented kinda like shanty. A town with a repair, ammo and food/water shop. These towns should be near busy trade routes. |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 1:31 pm |
Maybe traders should (or will, sam?) work more along a route than around a town. It makes sense for a pirate or BH gang to be based around a town, but traders should be based along a route (eg texan-shanty-bl), and be equally strong along that route.
Thinking some more, trader fame may not actually be what determines how strong they are or what they carry. Traders who never actually do any trading in in GW may have low fame there, but if they're legends in texan and SS the convoys passing through GW could still be powerful. Wow, this factions stuff gets complicated fast
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triad4evr Posted Feb 12, 2010, 1:39 pm |
Well one of the things this patch may end up doing is making some very clear in-game reasons for things like more pirate towns and/or maybe things like NPC camps.
And I have to agree with Neko- I think a bunch of people here are overestimating their own "eliteness" when compared to masses. Watch any mobster movie you like, there are plenty of ways for the baddest dude around from the baddest gang there is to get messed up every now and again when everybody is against him or her. And I'm guessing most urban street gangs do not sleep in barracks with armed guards and such. You're not the army, you're a street gang of young people. They do dumb things. And they certainly aren't likely to think in terms of requiring outside help for protection. They are probably more like "Me? With my 325 gunner skill? I ain't scairt, I don't need some sissy guard to walk me home from the whorehouse. I'm badazz!" And pirate or anarchist-tending gangs would, by their very nature, abhor a structured, regimented, military-like organization. They are chaotic, chaotic people don't like rules, regulations, and procedures you might find in place on, say, a military base full of trained and disciplined officers. So get over it. You might be bad in your own mind, but the world can be a lot "badder" for a variety of reasons. Anyway, I look forward to seeing how this plays out. |
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Jeelz Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:17 pm |
Spending a couple of months building my rep only to have it reset to nothing in the same week I hit the top 3? Anyone else think they'd be happy with that? | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:19 pm |
Sorry Jeelz 
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Jeelz Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:22 pm |
*sigh*
I'll get over it soon enough (and probably delete these comments from the thread when I sober up). "I coulda been a contender..." |
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Jeelz Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:23 pm |
BTW - can we implement some kind of sobriety test before people post on the forums? I'm gunna feel like a jerk tomoz. | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:27 pm |
Nah, it's fine. Any change like this is going to hit someone hard. Unavoidable, unfortunately. | ||||||||||||||||
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Arganosh Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:36 pm |
Sure you do, you do it while he is alone taking a wiz out back after his drunken friends have wondered off. You make sure you do it when it's dark and he cannot see your face. You don't try and mug the whole freaking gang at one time unless you have every one in town grab a gun or 3 and run them out of town on a rail. Your guy comes stumbling in with his arse kicked, you run up and say who did this, he mumbles no idea it was dark and I could not tell. So you gonna go out and burn down the one place for several hundred miles where you can stay out of the bad rads of the sun and maybe eat and sleep in peace without worrying about giant wolves sneaking up and eating a few of your friends? Your really goona do this just because one of your gang got his ass whooped by some locals? Nope, most likely you would warn the idjit to not go around alone and drunk. Also you have a gang there big freaking whoop, so do some other folks. Do you really think they will let you burn down the town while they are staying there? Doubt it, they would most likely join the town and run you out or help them kill you if you decided to destroy the town they happen to like. Remember, it's not just YOUR gang in that town. |
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*Dark Tempest* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:28 pm |
Shouldn't Towns be directly affiliated to factions, to make it easier to see how your scouting action influence your standing with the town? | ||||||||||||||||
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:31 pm |
They are - look at the description at the bottom of the town page. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Ayjona* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:55 pm |
To me, it sounds like the kind of faction system I've wished for in so many other online games, but very rarely seen (only once, and even then, it was far less advanced). While I'm sure it will require further tweaking, as we ravenous wolves of gameplay additions flock to the changes, it already sounds like something that will expand faction gameplay enormously, and only in good ways. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 5:30 pm |
Well I tested out hunting Pirataka out of Elms (since Elms STILL has no Pirates to seek) Demo's seemed to indeed lose interest in me until I started killing off the 4 peds wandering around.
After it was over I somehow was showing my Hero in SS again, but no in Elms, was unappreciated by Pirataka, and no other changes to speak of. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:09 pm |
I'm still against how your treating shantyville and firelight, how on earth can I scout those towns if the only good targets are anarchists, thereby, making the towns hate me, way to nerf areas...
Take the hardest towns in the game, one of them doesn't even have a shop for ammo, and make it waaay harder, throw in more returns, even more expensive repairs, having your arms broken randomly without a chance to fight back... I'm all for town rep, even thou it means I cant play neutral anymore, but for cripes sake, this is making any sizable scouting of shantyville and firelight a downright chore... Hell, why should shantyville and firelight be so damned bothered if I beat up the local pirates, since when did pirates start caring about one another... Cant believe me, chaos and slacker trucked down our whole SS gangs to have the area become impossible to use that way, without major problems... |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:13 pm |
Calm down FF, this is work in progress remember, just put your points of concern in the respective section in forum and i am positive it will be addressed, no need to get so angry.
Sam has stated he is keeping a very very close eye on this |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:17 pm |
Yeah... I know, its just that when you and two other people have trucked down tons of ammo, gear and people to shantyville, we were going to start our megasquad today, 10 buzzers and 5 mortar lorries... and some support cars...
Then you get this dropped on your head, makes it all feel like such a waste of time, I just had to get that said... |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:17 pm |
Yep - I'm not going to leave any towns 'broken', FF - that would be very bad game management. If you like, I can offer you a (once only) "rep reset" in a week or two when we have finalised this stuff.
Maybe what we need is a few trader gangs (or maybe non-anarchist pirates?) at Shanty and FL? |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:21 pm |
Yeah... I know perfectly well I am overreacting... I know it's still in testing...
I'm just worried... that it will kind of ruin it, you know? But I guessed you'd not leave it like this, I still think there would be a better way to judge town rep than linking it to a faction, at least not the anarchists, its to hard not to fight anarchists, they are everywhere... Maybe the shanty area could have a faction of its own to relate to, it is an independent town after all... |
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simonmaxhill Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:22 pm |
I think Shantytown could have local BH gangs that could be hunted like pirates. While FL is a "no go" zone for pirates, ST seems much more like a "neutral" town that will allow pirates, traders or bounty hunters to stay.
I think of ST as the Badlands Truckstop of the southeast, but a little rowdier, a little wilder and a lot poorer. |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:26 pm |
sam said
Maybe what we need is a few trader gangs (or maybe non-anarchist pirates?) at Shanty and FL? omg ive only been saying that since the place opened we have lots of good pirates for the goodies to hunt but crap low fame traders for pirate players to hunt,
im glad ff bitched doesnt work for me you only care about pirate hunters as always sam also said Yep - I'm not going to leave any towns 'broken', FF - that would be very bad game management. thats bs sam you never fixed it yet, fl was a pirate player town with no traders lol and now bh can attack us there? and never get anything in hp store sounds still broken to me
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:31 pm |
Sam, the only place right now were you can hunt high fame pirates, 700 or above, is Shantville, Firelight and badlands, with this patch, hunting the pirates in Firelight and Shantyville will get your back broken, or over ambushed on returns... This leaves Badlands as the only town in the game were you can hunt high famed pirates without getting screwed over, just saying, do we really need even more vets to crowd BL...? |
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Knight Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:32 pm |
Probably just make shanty more neutral/add other options to attack. Of course the ideal solution would be the option to set up a temporary camp outside a town, raid the locals for a while, then travel on back home when you run out of the supplies you brought with you. This way you could hunt at a town, say shanty, without actually staying there and being subject to being beaten up. How long your temp camp stays up is just limited to how much supplies you brought in/keeping it supplied. Its how I imagine things are for the traveling pirate gangs, why not be able to do the same thing to them. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:35 pm |
I think we could quite reasonably add a few Merchant-faction, Badlands-faction and Red-faction pirates at Shanty? And probably some Merchant-faction pirates at FL?
Or yeah.. as you suggest, make Shanty aligned with something other than Anarchists. Maybe Shanty could be the mutant-faction town? |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:36 pm |
This friendly fire rule is seriously going to get people killed. It is causing massive delays in killing enemy cars, and allowing much more damage to be sustained from in ability to take out confident cars. It is a horrible idea, stops shots that don't even have a chance to go stray and hit a friendly. | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:38 pm |
Umm.. what friendly fire rule do you mean? The one that was added about a year ago? |
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Nekojin Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:38 pm |
One solution I can see, at least for Firelight: Have frequent visits by Reds faction raiders - gangs looking to free slaves, or at least shoot up some slavers. By definition, you're not going to be in good standing with both factions, so it's an easy polar choice. That adds more variety to the town's target choices.
Heck, extend it to all of the cities. Gangers who are hated by a city are more likely to show up now and then to raise a little hell there, trying to steal, kill, or otherwise cause damage. Edit: The Firelight Manhunters already do this, in fact!
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:42 pm |
For some reason suddenly if a car is too close you can't fire. Never saw that before... Easy hits are being canceled for no reason lol. | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:43 pm |
Are you getting a message when this happens Urban? | ||||||||||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:45 pm |
Yes, says something like unable to fire from proximity to friendly, didn't really read it much cause I'm rarely in event chat. But it causes so many good shots to just not happen it is ridiculous.
Was seeking revenge on a Butterfly that caused me a lot of hassle earlier, and since some friendly cars were in the general vicinity Neither of my cars could fire at it, and I was quite close. |
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simonmaxhill Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:45 pm |
This post duplicates something I suggested in the discussion therad, but:
why not have the aligned of one or two of the current pirate gangs in FL change from week to week? That'd represent influence peddling and meddling by the powerful northern towns and allow FL based gangs to be stationed in town and build local rep at the same time. As for Shanty - they actually have a trader gang that goes through town... they aren't high fame, but they're pretty good. But pirates (get it? hahahaa) are going to have to be brave and send their forces out and away from home. That's part of being a pirate - leaving home for raids for a long time. It's a different lifestyle. |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:51 pm |
UD - could be something that Sam accidentally implemented, but this was already in place for targeting TERRAIN near an ally, but not an enemy car. Are you sure you're targeting a CAR? |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:55 pm |
Very sure hehe, it's all the rage in lobby chat and Sam is looking into it. | ||||||||||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:05 pm |
THIS THIS AND THIS AGAIN! Also, its supposed to be setup to raid trade routes, I'd say, add a good couple of traders, really hard high fame ones, along the lonesome highway route
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:07 pm |
and give firefly free equipment every hour and a million $ boost each half hour
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:10 pm |
well donating money to a faction does nothing to get yer rep with them good? i know just wasted 50k thanks for mentioning this, dont waste yer money it doesnt work
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:10 pm |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:11 pm |
I dunno i have warmed to muties a wee bit, they make lovely cuppas at the truickstops | ||||||||||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:49 pm |
I got a question about FL
1st part: Does having a (mutant) leader in any town change anything? does it influence your rep ranking there? 2nd part: FL is predominately anarchist and a little mutantly influenced. If you have pos rep on the mutant faction will you get your arms broken in FL, also if your rep is anonymous will you get beat up? If you want to keep good relations with mutants but not get beaten up after scouting FL pirates is it possible? Sure Bounty hunters or Reds showing up sometimes could help scouting there |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 7:53 pm |
Currently, no. It could be done.
No, and no. (Although I think the first part of the question is ambiguous..)
It should be, yes. The mutants actually dislike the anarchists. You're sure that was just one question?
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 8:06 pm |
Also if you are hated by anarchist/mutants etc.. in other towns will it have an influence on another "virgin" town? | ||||||||||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 8:50 pm |
this beatup yer guys bothers me, ya cant play out the fight even tho we have peds? if yer leader has low str yeah thell get beat up everytime, we would have bodyguards for them, what you think would happen irl if you tried to fight a ruthless person who has millions of dollars? you would learn real fast not to do that will we loose permanent streanth if we get beatup. seems like a way to kill off good low str gangers without you even being able to befend yerself
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Iron Wraith Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:00 pm |
Sounds to me that someone who could be beaten up that easily would soon find he didn't have Millions of dollars any more.
Rich kids still get beaten up (at least they did on my school). |
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:02 pm |
Will participating in gladiatoral events in FL help with town reputation? Especially if doing it without being enslaved?
I could see an "FL Gladiator Event Mafia" handling bets on the side. |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:09 pm |
yeah sure next time ya see a rich person with big bodyguards pick a fight with him and watch what happens lol, were not kids in a schoolyard?
if anyone would be in a position to get beat up it would be the guys in yer gang who are addicted to drugs and hang out in the bar? not yer leader lol what about a ganger with pys power gets jumped? he could mind zap his opponent? |
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Marrkos Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:17 pm |
It hasn't even happened yet has it?
The upside is a bit of RP and fun. The downside is extremely minimal. Lighten up, let it go, and play the game.
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:26 pm |
OK, I'm going to switch Shanty across to being aligned with the Mutant faction. The idea of having some rival pirate gangs (maybe Merchant-aligned) milling around FL might sort that one out.. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Longo* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:35 pm |
Man, Sam I am confused. So tell me, I want to have great BL faction, decent Shanty faction, and decent SS faction. What should I be fighting? Because I am really confused. |
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:43 pm |
I think the problem is there aren't many safe zones with training and hospital facilities if you aren't aligned with the merchants and civs.
Am I wrong? *** I still want to know if fighting in gladiator events will help my reputation with FL locals. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:43 pm |
Badlands Friendly Factions Merchants: neutral+ Evan Reds: neutral+ Enemy Factions Slavers: distrust Mutants: dislike Mutants = Shanty Friendly Factions Slavers: neutral+ Enemy Factions Badlands Truckstop: distrust Anarchists: distrust Merchants: dislike Civs: hate Civs (=SS) Friendly Factions Merchants: like Deathrace Mafia: like Enemy Factions Mutants: hate Slavers: hate Anarchists: hate ok, so hitting slavers looks good to boost your rep in BL and SS Hitting anarchists looks good to boost your rep in Shanty and SS If you do as much as possible of this around BL, you'll maximise the effects there |
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Procyon Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:47 pm |
Seems to me we might need a paladin-like do gooder civ faction pirate gang in FL. | ||||||||||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:47 pm |
Sam, I just got on worse terms with the anarchists, yet since shanty is mutant now, my gate fees increased anyway?
Can you check that? All players in my squad got on worse terms after killing a bunch of anarchist, was this because the scout started before the change maybe, but finished after? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:49 pm |
That'd happen, yes. The scripts are all loaded up when the event starts. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:54 pm |
Alright then, well, how about making firelight slaver city, just a thought?
The anarchists are just a disjointed group, right, like a pirate network or something along that line, but the slavers are a more focused group and they do run the firelight arena... Oh, also, it does give the smaller factions some flavor
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:56 pm |
Towns should be handled by major factions. Anarchists are a major faction, slavers are not. | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:59 pm |
It may be an issue.. and surely not the only one. We're considering changes to camps at the moment which would allow them to have hospitals and training camps, so this might alleviate it.
Currently, no. I'm happy to consider it.. we'll have to gather together a bunch of proposed additions/changes and discuss them |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:06 pm |
So if Mutants get shifted to Shanty what does that mean? what are the changes in game? | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:10 pm |
What it means is, the way to be popular in Shanty is now to be popular with the mutant faction, and therefore to kill its enemies. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:49 pm |
Sam, since I might have gotten it wrong, please clarify
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Jester Posted Feb 13, 2010, 1:19 am |
Is this a problem ? I think all factions should have pros and cons. I'm not sure training centers and hospitals fit in really well with the RP of anarchist. Maybe other kinds of buildings should be designed for Anarchists that wouldn't be available in SS and Elms... |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 1:28 am |
And remember you can have different reps in different towns... You can choose to keep a good rep in SS *OR* SF for hospital, etc. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 1:46 am |
Like a Black market in SS Elms etc for pirates? |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 2:39 am |
Are camps going to be able to start seeking at least a specific faction soon? Maybe after the map choices switch off of 100% chance of the exact same map... | ||||||||||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Feb 13, 2010, 3:25 am |
can we keep being able to choose a certain gang to attack? example i hate commie scum so id like to be able to kill them till there all dead in ss and always be able to scout and kill more commie scum? but atm all the commie scum in ss are wacked and cant kill anymore
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 13, 2010, 3:38 am |
I have to agree with Darth, at least in some respect. It's a bit restrictive to have pirates that are only anarchists in a given city. There should be a minimum of variety at all times in each town to ensure players aren't forced into attacking a faction they want to stay friendly with. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 3:43 am |
And on that note, what do I have to kill to get even one single Pirate Gang to go after in Elms? All I can really kill of interest to me are Pirataka since they are Anarchist Traders. Gets old going after the same general convoy every time lol. All they ever bring is a Trade Runner and a bunch of little escorts. | ||||||||||||||||
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Lord Foul Posted Feb 13, 2010, 6:23 am |
Do bounties still get put on player gangs by NPCs gangs that disliake you, or has that been removed too? Or did I miss something? EDIT: I do see bounties listed on NPC gangs once an event is loading, but no way to know who has bounties unless it's been relocated. |
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4saken Posted Feb 13, 2010, 7:07 am |
So if now we can me murdered by gangs that are enemies would it also be true that gangs that are only neutral (or better) to us would pull punches, for instance 1) not fire once they demo unless they are fired upon or 2) not fire at peds unless the peds fire first...
Also...
So now if I make it a point to kill Deathrace Photographer's Union they'll remember it? Good. Also, I guess the hero point system will be changing as well? Since now with the new system people will actually remember when you run around and murder them there's alot more repercussions to this than there were before. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 8:17 am |
I haven't changed anything in this regard: only reasonably high-fame NPC gangs can be directly targeted. Maybe what we need is to be able to target "Weak Faction X Targets" |
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*sam* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 8:19 am |
The bounty system has changed in that it's now per-town. In other ways it hasn't changed. So if you have a bounty on you in Elms, then only on maps close to Elms do you have a bounty on you. NPC bounties haven't changed and are considered 'global'. (Few NPC gangs actually move anyway). |
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*sam* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 8:21 am |
Not quite, no. Certain NPC gangs are simply nasty and will not respect resignations. We're talking about arena combats here, not wilderness events? In the wilderness, anyone in a combat with you considers your demo'd cars to be a threat and therefore viable targets. As you do theirs. |
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Togakure Posted Feb 13, 2010, 9:32 am |
This might have been discussed in the past, but what options might be available with this new system to allow some sort of "rating" level that prevents demo'd enemy vehicles in the wilderness from continuing their attack? For example, as a player fights against a specific gang, the amount of damage and injuries they inflict on the enemy is somehow tracked and converted to a core value. The higher this value, the more "feared" the player is by that gang. Past a certain point, and the demo'd enemy will be more likely to leave that player alone. Think about it from an RP perspective. You are widely known by Colt 45 to be a mean SOB. You've wasted plenty of their gang already, ripped the ears and toes off of their former leaders, and junked enough of their cars to build a skyscraper. Do you honestly think they'd want to upset you any further once they are so scared that they're pissing their pants (demo'd)? To me, that's the entire point of "demoralizing" the enemy, to remove their motivation and will to fight. As it sits right now, "demoralized" enemy are obviously not demoralized enough if they continue to fight back. A truly "demoralized" opponent should be screaming and crying like a baby while filling their pants with brown matter. Another option could be to create an additional level or status for vehicles. Confident, Demoralized, and something else such as OOC (Out of Action). By firing on demo'd vehicles, shooting peds, using peds as speed bumps, and similar acts of violence you will lower your rating. Even accidental damage or injury to demo'd vehicles and peds would count as hostile. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 10:19 am |
The role of demo'd vehicles in combat has been discussed quite a few times. The bottom line is that if we create a rule that stops NPCs from shooting when they're demo'd, we have to enforce the same rule on player cars. | ||||||||||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 13, 2010, 10:49 am |
Sam, since I might have gotten it wrong, please clarify
Bump
Also.... Shantyville: Locally recognized and scorned The hell? The mutants appreciate me, why is shanty against me all of a sudden, they were fine yesterday... And for some reason, Slacker is hated in shantyville, yet the mutants Appreciate him to, care to explain this? |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 11:23 am |
Anyways just a thought What if the system continues now as it is, (demoed NPC continue to fight you) because players just can't help it reding them, But if they don't do that anymore then they get remembered for being fare and treated accordingly But were talking about per gang rep now, and how would that be tracked on the website (your "honor" standings with gangs) |
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Jester Posted Feb 13, 2010, 1:01 pm |
I think there is a way around this. Is it possible that a gagngmember flees when they see things going sour? Players might do that, and I think so should NPC. If the third status is fleeing, cars don't stop shooting, they just try to get away from the fight, choosing the "clearest" path, and fighting their way out. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 13, 2010, 1:04 pm |
whichever way you look at it, having attacked a vehicle to the point of demo, the occupants and gang are not going to consider you as fair even if you dont kill them imo |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 3:10 pm |
Hey that could work! |
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FireFly Posted Feb 13, 2010, 3:48 pm |
Must we find even more ways to prolong larger scouts...?
Just don't shoot the demoed car if you want to loot it, or bring some paintguns... no need to force them to do anything... |
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*Ninesticks* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 3:53 pm |
AI cars will do this on occassion, particularly when you are killing a lot of their buddies. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 13, 2010, 5:22 pm |
Uh, seriously, the more anarchists I kill in shanty the less it likes me...
Mutants are supposed to not trust the anarchists :/ |
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Karz Master Posted Feb 13, 2010, 5:27 pm |
I agree |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 13, 2010, 5:31 pm |
Yep agreed |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 6:12 pm |
I had actually assumed that would be happening...
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*Longo* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 6:16 pm |
I did also, initially. |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 6:20 pm |
Nine is right - they do flee. If you're slaughtering them though, especially with high recoil weapons, you might not notice it. Leave them and attack another car (if they have some speed) and you'll notice it more...
I also think demo's work like they are. Like Sam said, if a demo'd car couldn't do anything but run away blindly then a player would lose their control and do the same thing... |
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Iron Wraith Posted Feb 13, 2010, 7:07 pm |
I am a local hero in Somerset, but also locally anonymous.
How many baddies do I have to defeat before Dexters becomes the bar that everyone knows my name? Can I also suggest that if you are loved in a town that Dexter always manages to find some grub and water for your gangers at the non inflated rates. Not to buy for trade, but just for the weekly food bill. Seems to me they'd like to keep their freinds well fed. |
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Jester Posted Feb 13, 2010, 9:01 pm |
It doesn't change anything if the fleeing status is the one after Demoed. I.e. If you're fleeing, you're also demoed. Fleeing cars would be demoed cars that have visibly lost the will to fight, crontrarily to other demoed cars, that keep coming at you. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 13, 2010, 9:08 pm |
Basically, don't make it to easy, besides, I've seen a good couple run away... |
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*Dark Tempest* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 10:38 pm |
Yeah, and watch all of our loot cars drive away? | ||||||||||||||||
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darthspanky Posted Feb 14, 2010, 2:05 am |
well this system just about destroys a pirate playstle , elm fees go up for hunting traders and there the best traders with most fame in the game, you go south hunt lower famed traders than in elm, there but cant sell loot for crap and get to hunt low famed or no traders at all , damm you sure know how to f up a players playstle , this system sucks imo prolly play for a bit but congradulate yerselve ya got rid of me
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4saken Posted Feb 14, 2010, 4:29 am |
Also I don't really see any faction threads in suggestions now that it's underway so I guess we are still posting here.
Anyway... the old "hunt pirates/traders" thing is rather antiquated now. If we go to hunt a pirate faction we should probably also have some chance to face off against their traders, maybe one time in 10. Pirates use traders, too. OTOH some people will want to hunt traders specifically. They will probably be kitted out differently (fast interceptors, maybe a cargo loot vehicle, etc) for the task. So maybe we should have like two sets of radio buttons... one for pirate (i.e. combat) vs trader, the next set would be a list of factions. So you set what you are looking for. That doesn't mean you'll get it, but this would be a start I think. Anyway this idea doesn't quite cover everything (bounty hunters, high fame gangs) but it gives you can idea. |
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Jester Posted Feb 14, 2010, 4:55 am |
I'm not sure I get why you say you can't hunt traders in elms. It's the same for everybody. You want to hunt good pirates, you go to badlands in hostile territory. It makes sense. If you want to go hunt someone in their courtyard, you're not gonna be welcome. |
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Karz Master Posted Feb 14, 2010, 6:50 am |
Well darth, all I can say is, just don't worry about the demographics and play the game for what it is. C'mon old chap don't be such a worrymonger and just come back in to play
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St Germain Posted Feb 14, 2010, 9:10 am |
I can see pretty well how to lose rep with various factions, hunt their traders, kill off their characters, etc.
But how does one 'gain' rep/fame with a faction? Still arena and scout missions? And is it one's interaction with the target in a mission that determines positive influence? What I'm asking is that it sounds as if only by say Negatively influenceing the Anarchists, can I then Positively influence the Civs or Somerset. But what ways are there to positively influence the Civs and/or Somerset without first reducing somewhere else? Even though I understand the net effect of increasing influence with the Civ's and/or Somerset will result in a decrease with their enemies.... |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Feb 14, 2010, 9:42 am |
Who's on first?
This whole setup still has me confused. Not saying I don't like it, I just don't understand all the ins-and-outs of it yet.
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FireFly Posted Feb 14, 2010, 2:37 pm |
Can we also clarify what exactly the hometown bonus is, I'm about to change mine to shanty pretty soon, it better be more than just the gate fee, since shanty has almost none already
Shantyville: Locally renowned and respected I wonder if I have far left, muties seem to approve of my slaughters
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*sam* Posted Feb 14, 2010, 5:47 pm |
I'm sick of telling you this darth. When a new play element like this is added, it takes some time to balance it right. Several people have already mentioned that we need to have some variety in faction targets in the various towns, and this is something I intend to do. Also I will add a "scout for faction X pirates" option. However, it's the weekend and I don't have time to do it immediately. I was at a 70th birthday party for my father in law, which is far more important than your whinging and abusive PMs to me. |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Feb 14, 2010, 6:16 pm |
I do have a specific question about courier missions. I have 5-1 crews who travel back and forth between SS and GW doing missions for cash and previously fame and reputation. Will these now only be for cash (and training) or are there some benefits to fame and/or reputation to the town the goods are delivered to or from? | ||||||||||||||||
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Togakure Posted Feb 14, 2010, 6:21 pm |
From my experience, courier missions alone will raise/lower rep with various factions. I have not done a single scout or combat encounter since before the patch, just courier runs between SS-Elms. And so far, I have become locally recognized and appreciated by Elms. I have also become appreciated by the Civs, Merchants, and Deathrace Mafia while at the same time becoming unappreciated by the Anarchists, Mutants, and Slavers. All from only a handful of courier runs. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 11:21 am |
Yes, missions of any type will affect fame/rep with the source and destination towns, and therefore will also affect the factions that they're influential with (for or against). | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 11:40 am |
BTW I'd appreciate feedback from players on how this is working out.
Specifically- 1) how fast is fame/rep changing with factions and does it seem too slow/too fast 2) whether the faction-related gameplay changes are working out ok, for example (a) trucing, (b) gates fees, (c) militia attacks at gates I'm just about to add some new NPC non-anarchist pirate gangs and perhaps a few non-merchant trader gangs in various towns. I'm also going to make a "Scout for Faction X Pirates" option. Since a couple of people are unhappy about their sudden loss of fame, I *could* retrofit previous fame values to the top gangs. This would be a bit of effort but I have no problem doing it if you guys think it's important. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 15, 2010, 11:52 am |
I did like being able to recruit well, but it isnt that big of an issue...
The people who had a high fame, can obviusly get it again, I know I can... Also, the factions and towns seems to react the most when you kill enemy gangers, this is intentional, yes? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 11:58 am |
Well, since the main gameplay involves killing stuff.. yes, kind of unavoidable. I'm sure we can dream up new, more subtle ways of influencing faction rep.. I don't think paying direct $ for rep. is a good idea though, that's too easy. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 15, 2010, 12:09 pm |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 12:26 pm |
It seems reasonable enough - everyone does hate the anarchists after all. Just stay out of firelight
For me, it seems to work OK, although I'm also going the easy route and just attacking anarchists. Town fees are going down - not had a chance to see other effects yet, although I'm hoping the GW militia might give me a hand at some point. Heck, even the Reds like me. My only real criticism would be that it's too easy to be friends with everyone important right now. It would be nice if there were some slightly more difficult choices when making alliances - some sort of conflict between the merchants and the civs maybe? Nothing overt, but some sort of trade war or something. Dunno. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 12:58 pm |
Wolf- I could easily weaken the relationship between the Merchants and Civs.
BTW I have added two new trader gangs to Elms, and one to Badlands. You'll also see the faction affiliation of gangs listed in the town market reports. I'd appreciate any suggestions about other gangs that should be added to any specific towns. edit: also added a Reds Pirate gang to FL. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 15, 2010, 1:07 pm |
dump a ton of traders in shanty, if you ask me, shantyville should become "The" town for trader hunting, I mean, sha... mutieville is setup for the specific purpose of intercepting the high value transports between TX - BL, yet there are no traders, and the trader loot isn't worth anything...
Make it rival sarsfield in terms of cargo, and make them the highest fame traders around, this is just my suggestion thou, but it could bring some fresh air over shanty, not to mention, justify its RP explanation... Also, dedicated Merchant/Civilian/Red's bounty hunters in firelight, I can come up with a few descriptions for these once I get home from school, but now... time for PE... |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 15, 2010, 1:15 pm |
vested interest Firefly
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 1:18 pm |
Yeah, but I'm not sure that would do what I'm looking for. It would mean I could attack one and keep rep with the other, but I've got no real reason to do that. I can just keep hitting anarchists and they'll both like me, which is much easier. I'm going to have to think about this for a bit. Oh, and agreed with FF, as long as there are some properly hardcore bounty hunters around to make the returns interesting
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Whiskey Posted Feb 15, 2010, 1:37 pm |
This may have been asked already but I didn't see it.
Do Hero Points still work? I have racked up several bounties out of BL and nothing special has shown up for purchase. |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 1:41 pm |
I've spent some points I already had from before the change (in Elms), so that much worked. I think BL is just farmed out more or less constantly these days. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 15, 2010, 1:50 pm |
Aye hero points still working as normal, though i am sure this will be addressed when factions are running smoothly | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 1:55 pm |
Yes, HPs are going to be looked at soon. They should be useful in a variety of ways - one idea I had is that they could be "traded in" for rep/fame with their town. | ||||||||||||||||
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4saken Posted Feb 15, 2010, 2:07 pm |
One thing I'd like to point out is that since it has been reset we are all pretty much "anonymous" in every town. This means that our reps will build very slowly everywhere, which is different than what the system will be like once it is in full swing.
It might be a good idea to weaken the positive relationship a little between many groups. I can only imagine that if two groups are very closely aligned than if you attack one they both get mad at you. Sometimes we'll want this but sometimes I think groups will be more neutral. For instance mutants and slavers get along but do you really think if you attack one group the other is really going to care all that much unless you attack them as well? Also I assume that most groups gravitate towards indifference over time. Maybe slaver gangs would instead gravitate towards a lower level, such as scorned. You would pretty much have to go out of your way to make friends with them and remind them of it all the time. Also I just had an awesome idea! The relationship between the groups might change a little every so often, for instance every month or two. There might be an announcement in forums/gazette like "relations have soured between Civs and Merchants" or new alliances formed, etc. This serves as an interesting dynamic for RP as well as a way to tweak things. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 15, 2010, 3:31 pm |
The Blockade Runners - Traders/Merchants/Shantyville
A ruthless trader gang on the most dangerous routes of evan, these guys will charge all their vehicles right at you, and swoop you aside, they have no intention of running away... (Give them the pirate code, even with the trader vehicles )
________________________________________________________________________ The Dusters - Traders/Merchants/Shantyville Like their name, they will leave you in the dust, be prepared for a good chase if you want to catch these guys... (Trader gang with a concentration on lighter, faster vehicles) ________________________________________________________________________ The Purification - Firelight, Bounty hunter, Civs A Gang of ruthless killers, cleansing the world of the unjust ones... (Will always execute your gangers if they win a fight, whatever your standing...) ________________________________________________________________________ Mutated Delivery - Traders/Firelight/Mutant Only a madman would setup a trade route between BL and Firelight, then again, nobody ever called a mutant sane... ________________________________________________________________________ F-A-S (Free All Slaves) - Evan Red's/Bounty Hunters/Firelight A group form the even reds sworn to bring down the slavery operations in firelight... Any of those any good, I could go on
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fleau Posted Feb 15, 2010, 7:18 pm |
simple question:
do the global fame reduce by 20% each week as before? ( i hope no: keeping my fame at 100 mean that i MUST do 7 scout minimum or 2 deathrace minimum per week. some week i can't, that' a bit boring, i'm Condemned t be always 'anonymous'
this mean that if i can't keep a minimum of fame, i'll never go to the south...) sorry for my poor english speaking |
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Zephyr Posted Feb 15, 2010, 11:36 pm |
I really like the new "Factions" patch; the mechanic looks pretty solid. I'm just a little disappointed that my +1000 rep got wiped out instantly. I've been working hard on my faction the last few weeks and I was hoping there would be some sort of mechanic to port over at least part of your existing scores into the new system, instead of just starting everyone over from scratch.
OK, enough whining. |
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*Bastille* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 2:55 am |
Oh boy,... so much to read here!
I got fifteen channels of squig in this thread to read through, to read through, to read through... Anyone got an electric light?! Second sight? Amazing powers of observation... (pick the reference and get a booby prize. Really most of you should notice Im sure. first PM gets the prize) Been waiting for this ever since I noticed the factions button under the gangs. Brilliant Sam! Maybe my assassinations will pay off now, and I can start intercepting Anarchist Traders, which I have been waiting to do for ages. Muchness of Joy! Edit: for those that didn't get it, Nobody Home, PF - the wall. 4 had the best answer and gets the Bucc |
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Lord Foul Posted Feb 16, 2010, 3:38 am |
I have an issue with this decision. Remember when we had that long debate back then about how good the motivator spec is when compared to the recruiter spec? The recruiter specs one edge it had over the motivator spec was that it could be used globally no matter where the recruiter was located. Please re-allow the spec to work globally again as this is a serious nerf to the spec. Silly question, why should a gang have to have good rep in a town to recruit good skilled characters anyways? Just because the town does not like you or does not know you should not affect your ability to recruit a good character. What, all the mean evil badass characters with good skills currently in town are not allowed to join your gang because the towns folk don't like you? lol PS: I'm not sure how "Global fame" will be of use as there are 9 towns to divide your global fame by. Unless you are scouting all over the place, I do not see it ever being anything but anonymous for 90% of the gangs in DW. Even it you were "legendary" in 2 towns, you may reach "well known" for your global fame. You would have to be "Legendary" in 3 towns to have a "Global Fame" of "Renowned". There are 4 more global fame ranks above that, I'm not sure how players will be able to accomplish these global fame ranks unless they are DW scouting fanatics. The more towns that are added to the mix, the harder it will be for a player to raise their global fame. PPS: We don't have a way to know which gangs have bounties unless we see it list on the load event screen. |
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Procyon Posted Feb 16, 2010, 5:28 am |
I don't think that it's a serious nerf to the spec. It's a nerf to be sure, to an already questionably useful spec, but it doesn't hurt the functionality of the spec much, nor would it persuade me to have more than 1 recruiter globally. It just means my new recruit is going to hop in a pho and go where I want him rather than get recruited where I want him. I'd rather see the change stay the way it is and bump the recruiter's effective fame boost 20% to compensate for the nerf. |
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Lord Foul Posted Feb 16, 2010, 5:53 am |
You only commented on the first part of the spec nerf. Even if Sam agreed to give the spec a 20% boost, you did not comment on the oddness of how the recruit spec now works. You now have to have the recruiter in a town that "likes" you to get to effects of the spec to work. Now for some reason, if the towns folk don't like you your recruiter loses the ability to recruit good characters. Good fame or Bad fame, you should still be able to attract a good skilled character with the recruiter spec now that global fame is not used. Just because you're conisdered "evil" by the locals should not stop other "Evil" characters with good skills from wanting to join your gang. Your recruiter character uses his abilties to find good talent and persuade them to join your kick arse gang. He/she should not have to get persmission from the towns folk to find good talent. Since Global fame is not out of the picture, it seriously hurt the spec and how it must be used. Should a player that's only liked in Sarsfield need to have his recruiter in Sarsfield to have a small chance to recruit an above average/talented driver he needs in Somerset? |
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Procyon Posted Feb 16, 2010, 7:49 am |
The way I'm reading this is that being liked has nothing to do with fame. So you could potentially be detested and legendary in a town and have a huge recruitment bonus while your gangers get beat up.
If my interpretation of fame is correct, I can see this as reasonable. It's still a nerf to recruiter spec, bit not a huge one since you can recruit in Sars and ship them to SS where they are needed fairly easily. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 8:37 am |
You're getting fame and rep. mixed up. It's only fame that affects how good the characters are that you can recuit. Whether the town likes you or not isn't relevant.
I was going to wait a while to see how this one played out. I think you're jumping the gun a bit. The global fame calc can very easily be tweaked if/when we see that it's necessary. And what's wrong with most gangs being globally low fame anyway? |
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:11 am |
Is it possible for somebody who scouts exclusivley in one town (like SS) to have thier global rep move to legendary? I think that making it so that you have to scout in at least three or four towns would be a good way to get some people to leave SS. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:44 pm |
what is very negative rep? is it "detested"? or does the bad feelings go higher than that? Asking because being detested by anarchist, i've yet to have the option to kill them all |
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:58 pm |
Sorry - you should get the option well before that. I have found and fixed the bug (I think). Let me know if it works for you next time. | ||||||||||||||||
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4saken Posted Feb 16, 2010, 2:02 pm |
Does your home town give any bonus to fame? Perhaps a one shift to fame, or perhaps have your fame there not decrease as rapidly?
Should it (or could it, considering all the different factions) have any effect on rep? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 2:29 pm |
It does make sense to have slower fame decrease in hometown, yes. I had considered but not implemented it due to all the extra database queries it would require. I have thought of an efficient way to do it now though.
Currently it cannot, due to the way rep. is applied. Town rep is copied directly from that of its primary faction. |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 4:47 pm |
What happens when you hunt a combination of anarchist/civs/reds, all merchants? do you loose rep a little with each faction and more with the merchants?
because i haven't notice any difference in ss where i'm recognized and appreciated after 3-4 scouts all against merchants Also I haven't seen any changes to my faction standings |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 5:49 pm |
Is this normal? Finally got the option to murder remaining gangers while scouting against Anarchists. Killed 5 of them this way, as well as 2 or 3 in the scout itself.
Now I am Scorned by the Anarchists which makes sense, but the Civs are Unappreciated? And I went back to anon in Elms. How can they disapprove THAT much of me killing their enemy? All I have ever scouted for since the Faction patch was Anarchists, as well as looking for the occasional Mutant or Slaver gang, in the hopes of getting in good with Elmsfield and The Civs... |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 6:33 pm |
Makes sense to me - I don't imagine the Civs look kindly on mass murder of people who've surrendered. The Merchants would probably be OK with it.
I don't see why it should affect your fame though. |
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Lord Foul Posted Feb 17, 2010, 12:08 am |
Sorry about that Sam, guess my head was still spinning from trying to decipher all the changes.
Sam said:
Not trying to jump the gun, just point out what the most likely scenario would be needed to reach such high statuses. If it’s based on simple division mathematics, it would be difficult to attain any high end global fame status. Question, what purpose does Global fame have under the new system or is it just a status symbol? Maybe you’re still deciding if it does have one? From the main post, it now appears everything is based on local fame and rep (even the recruiter spec), so I’m trying to figure out what role is currently has. Also, it appears NPC gang global fame is calculated differently than Player Global fame. Example: King Cobras can have a “Legendary” global fame, but only have presence in one town and are not encountered anywhere else. I could understand the status for wandering gangs like Butane or FLMH, but do not understand how the other NPC gangs can obtain that status with a presence in only one town. I could understand “Local” fame being legendary though. Maybe you need an extra tab in the “browse” section to show local fame as well as global fame? |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Feb 17, 2010, 12:12 am |
Gotta admit LF makes good points.
Previously recruiter was useful only in giving a new recruit a 1-10 pt jump in one skill. No effect on max skill = useless as a "spec". Now ...it's worse than useless. People are making the mistake of taking it as a spec and not motivator and that is truly unfair to the newbie. |
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Procyon Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:46 am |
As I understand it, recruiter increases your fame for the purpose of recruiting. Fame increases your chance of getting a 1-10 pt bump in one skill and getting a "talented" character with higher caps. So, assuming I am reading this all correctly, having a recruiter in the town you intend to recruit from will increase your chances of getting talented characters with higher caps just as having higher fame in that town would. I don't think it is a useless skill, but having more than 1 recruiter in your gang is probably pointless. As for comparing it with motivator for newbs, motivator doesn't stack and takes some time to really kick in, so a newb arguably would be better off with a higher fame for recruiting purposes anyway with their first leadership spec. Both motivator and recruiter suffer from not stacking so the problem with newbs choosing 2 recruiters is the same as them choosing 2 motivators... the second spec does nothing, so this is not an issue with recruiter that motivator doesn't share. At least combat psyche doesn't have any confusion for the newbs
I do think that recruiter could use a boost with the change. The change did make it more difficult to use without shuttling guys around more and it already suffers from the 5 day waiting period and competition with the powerful motivator spec. I think a bit of extra virtual recruiting fame would do the trick though as I do not believe the change broke recruiter, just mildly nerfed it. Edit: recruiter was broken before the change. Recruiter needs to effect chance to recruit talented characters or at least increase character caps in some way to be effective. Strikethrough for accuracy so as not to confuse readers. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Feb 17, 2010, 1:55 am |
No idea where you are getting this from...got a link? It's all almost completely wrong. |
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Procyon Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:29 am |
So, it appears I was confused (memory from August is bad). Recruiting does add to fame for the purposes of recruiting, however fame does not affect your odds of getting talented characters. Both recruiting and fame just give an initial stat boost, but no cap boost. So, recruiter was broken before factions. (I even commented in that thread to that effect... I'm getting early onset Alzheimers I swear) |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 8:05 am |
what thread was this? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 9:42 am |
You lose rep. with the local town faction, regardless of whether they hate the guys you murder, simply because it doesn't exactly show you in a good light to slaughter people in cold blood. Fame shouldn't be affected. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 9:46 am |
Correct, it currently has no role in-game, but of course this can change.
Yep. I don't bother tracking local fame for NPCs since they move around very little or not at all. |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:22 pm |
Fame is indeed affected. Killing those 5 gangers lost what little Elms Fame I had. And someone else in BL was highly respected until killing off 21 and went down to anon. | ||||||||||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:25 pm |
Darn, sorry you're right. I actually intended fame to grow when you did these killings, but accidently reduced rather than increased fame. How many guys did you kill this way near each town? I can fix your Elms and BL fame.. |
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:36 pm |
I did the same sam, check the bugs thread, I killed 21 guys there in cold blood, it erased the memory of everyone in BL
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:41 pm |
Rez, what level of fame were you at previous to that? | ||||||||||||||||
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theHumungous Posted Feb 17, 2010, 4:11 pm |
That's because you killed the people that knew you.
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 4:17 pm |
Rez, I have put your BL fame up to approx. where it should be. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Feb 17, 2010, 4:19 pm |
Thanks a lot
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 5:15 pm |
Mine was just 5 kills of Anarchist scum outside of Elmsfield.
But after having a demoed Member of Wheres the Beef? spend 30-50 turns playing possum only to kill a pair of HGG's and 3 of my gangers while I was after thier Trade Runner, you can rest assured no anarchist will live from now on. |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 18, 2010, 12:14 am |
i killed 8 guys in ss, my fame was recognized and apreciated | ||||||||||||||||
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Jester Posted Feb 18, 2010, 3:29 am |
How will accessibility to escort missions be managed ?
I used to have high fame and could get numerous escort missions everywhere. Now I can't get missions anywhere. Should it be based on how much a faction likes you, rather than fame? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 18, 2010, 8:35 am |
I've updated your SS fame. (You're no longer appreciated there BTW). |
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*sam* Posted Feb 18, 2010, 8:38 am |
You should find the escort missions quite accessible but it will take a little while to get your local fame high enough first. Of course, the calculations may also need tweaking, but I think local fame should be as easy (or easier) to build up in a specific town than global fame used to be. One good way to build up fame is to do Professional events. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 18, 2010, 9:04 am |
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Serephe Posted Feb 18, 2010, 9:17 am |
I see plenty. There aren't enough participants in them to justify adding more.
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 18, 2010, 10:27 am |
If anything Pro races need to be stream lined to make more members participate | ||||||||||||||||
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 18, 2010, 11:01 am |
I'd probably do more if they had lower engine limits. I have a few race cars set up for the 1L and 2L classes, but there's really no point me entering the 5L and bigger events. | ||||||||||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 18, 2010, 11:22 am |
I've said this before, and back then, the vote was in favor of more pro races, but anyway...
I think, now that we can spawn race events at will, increase the rate of the pro events, its simply more fun to drive your own damned cars instead of some stock one to "level" the playing field... Anyway, now that we can spawn regular events at will, its a perfect time to implement more pro races, and sere, your seriously saying that? On an average day, there are about 6 pro events, now, they are 3 hours apart, and in random towns, engine sizes, and restrictions... Regularly, there is only 1 or so per day you actually have everything setup to enter, unless you check days in advance, and more often that not, its often in a town were you are not ready for it, most of us don't keep racers in every town... Not to mention time restraints, the odds of that event you could enter with the car you'd like to drive falling within your sceduale is... slim... So, unless you watch the event list and prepare accordingly, a day in advance or so, its hard to catch them... Besides, it would make more sense to have pro races over stock races more often that not, how often do you see races in real life were every single car is of the same make and the exact same model...? |
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Serephe Posted Feb 18, 2010, 12:58 pm |
Real life card has no value here.
The current system is fine, if you want to use your own car you can always create a custom event just like everyone else. |
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betterlucky Posted Feb 18, 2010, 12:59 pm |
But you don't get any fame for custom events... the reason pro races were mentioned. | ||||||||||||||||
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Serephe Posted Feb 18, 2010, 1:01 pm |
He didn't mention fame either. There are plenty of pro events each day, and they are displayed well ahead of time allowing you to prepare cars for them.
Until more people join in the events, then there's no reason to add more events. |
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betterlucky Posted Feb 18, 2010, 1:17 pm |
Conversely, there's no reason to bother with setting up as a pro-racer unless there are more events. They may be displayed well ahead of time but finding the right one (restricted/unrestricted) in the right place at a time you can play is not always easy - particularly for casual players.
Edit: Just a thought, but why not borrow the gladiator event system. Anyone with a character in a pro-racing town can request a specific event via the tavern. It queues for 10 mins and requires, say, 3 players to start. That generates a 30 min qualifying session (shorter than usual), a 10 min break (not an hour) and then the race starts. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 18, 2010, 1:47 pm |
Sere, what you dont seem to get is that racing for no reward, in the custom events, is not something most people want to do, if I had a cookie for every time I heard the...
"Putting my own ganger and car in a race with nothing to win isnt worth it", well, I'd not be hungry right now, thats for sure, I do take my roadrunner around the track, but without the "Official" feel of the event, it loses some of the fun. And as bl said, having pro racers everywhere to catch that one, odd, event, is, well, a waste of time really... A while back we had a vote for more pro races, a "Rolling" pro race type, some of the regular races would be replaced by pro races, since we can now spawn events at will, still waiting for sam to implement this... And why sere, why don't you want more pro races, give me a good reason, it certainly wont diminish the competition, if anything, it will encourage more people to setup race-cars, I know that most people who do these enter every single event they have the car for, that includes me, Pro racing beats scouting, but scouting beats regular racing... |
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Serephe Posted Feb 18, 2010, 2:15 pm |
You can set your own entry fee - reward in the options for custom events. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 18, 2010, 2:18 pm |
We have had a good few pro races of late, no prizes were involved, just fun and honour, not everything has to revolve around earnings, there are enough ways to make silly easy money already.
i say Pro races for no prizes just fun and honour of your gang |
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betterlucky Posted Feb 18, 2010, 2:24 pm |
Ah, just took a look at the custom event creator... it's a lot better than I remember (just back from a long break). As long as fame is available from these and it can't be exploited too badly then I withdraw my comments
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Serephe Posted Feb 18, 2010, 2:36 pm |
I wouldn't be opposed to custom events generating fame. They shouldn't generate as much as a pro event however -- in fact, they should generate slightly less than a normal event and even then, only if AI vehicles are involved also. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Bastille* Posted Feb 19, 2010, 1:43 am |
Hmmm, and maybe scaled to the number of vehicles. Or CR If PDR, PC
Now wheres my XQJ-37?! |
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Serephe Posted Feb 19, 2010, 2:42 am |
Being able to spawn pro events if 4+ seperate players join wouldn't be too bad either. | ||||||||||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 19, 2010, 5:08 am |
Speaking of racing, I would really like to know what the minimum number of players would need to be to generate custom races where you can gain skill. Or at least generate a no npc race that counts for skill with no control of what you get.
Anything with a group of real players without the NPC's getting in the way that actually counts for driving skill so people will actually join up and play would be very very nice. |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 19, 2010, 10:05 am |
Do ladder races count for skill? Because that would suggest the minimum number is two. | ||||||||||||||||
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Serephe Posted Feb 19, 2010, 10:14 am |
Not necessarily. You can only do 2 of each ladder event per week. |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Feb 19, 2010, 10:44 am |
If you murder Anarchists pirates after scouting from camp, will this effect the camp "hometown" rep or will there be no effect to a town rep? |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:57 pm |
If you murder Anarchists pirates after scouting from camp, will this effect the camp "hometown" rep or will there be no effect to a town rep? *bump* for a response to this |
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*sam* Posted Feb 20, 2010, 6:04 pm |
Yes, you always lose some rep. (and gain some fame) with the local town when you use the murder option. Although as a 'far away from town' combat it will probably have a reduced effect. | ||||||||||||||||
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Six Gun Jack Posted Feb 24, 2010, 8:41 am |
it seems tavern missions are still based on global fame. I have only managed to raise fame / rep in SS so far. When I first came back all towns said no missions available due to my LOCAL fame / rep. But now even though I only raised it in SS, all the towns have started to offer basic courier missions. Just thought I would mention it if your intent was for them to be based on local fame/rep only.
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*sam* Posted Feb 24, 2010, 8:42 am |
I just tried this myself and it seemed to operate just fine.. you're talking about the 'Check the Noticeboard' option? |
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Six Gun Jack Posted Feb 24, 2010, 7:06 pm |
yeah,
the check notice board in the tavern. I am just saying when I first came back I checked all the towns and none offered any missions with a message saying my local fame/rep was too low. so far I have only worked on SS faction, a bit in Texan and GW, but I notice all towns are now at least offering me the basic low level courier missions now. It just seemed universal in each town as far as what they are offering is what I am getting at. But it could be that its my rep going up enough because of the faction thing since all towns will like you a bit if you kill "bad" pirates. I dont have anyone in FL to check there. I just thought Fame was also local too, and those missions were now based on local fame and local rep. (although it could be those basic courier missions only require a little bit of good rep and no fame?) anyway hope this makes sense, if its working fine then forget what I am saying.. lol. EDIT : Well checking more carefully today, I notice Elms and Sarsfield offer no missions again. BL, GW, SS, Texan all offer basic courier missions, the low pay mail ones. So it seems its working ok, although I have not done anything in BL at all yet, it may be related to doing a bit in GW and Texan nearby. |
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*Bastille* Posted Feb 24, 2010, 10:22 pm |
Some feedback so far on what I have noticed since Faction intro.
After a handful of attacks on Anarchists and Slavers in SS I found that I was only offered courier missions in the northern regions (GW and North) With a positive rep in SS and GW (recognised) and no missions to offer further south. Death of an old scout in SS that had travelled most of Evan, and Hero Points from before the faction change in EL and BL were lost. After 1 attack Merchant Bounty hunters in Texan (those bleedin' profit mongers for my RP spin) Less courier options seemed available, maybe due to the week coming to an end and others taking up the missions, not sure. My Rep with Civs in SS dropped back to Neutral immediately and was instantly a hero in FL, and recognised. 1 Attack on Slavers in BL and I have more courier and other missions available up north again, still prior to weeks end, and am now Recognised and Unappreciated in FL, still a hero. No change in fame or rep yet in BL or Tex and Global fame is now Recognised for the first time. Courier missions now available in Tex.
Might elaborate on this when I have some more time as its very brief. Hope this helps. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Mar 13, 2010, 9:48 pm |
Not sure if it was here but I saw some suggestion about special rewards for winning lots of pro events or leagues with the Death race mafia faction.
I win quite a few of these and am only "appreciated" by the mafia. Other gangs have gotten Honoured...I can only assume mostly through scouting against their enemies. So in effect you are merely double rewarding scouting. |
