*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 9:34 am	I have just patched in a new type of deathrace: point-to-point rallys through randomly positioned sets of gates. These are staged on 'Gates' maps and are treated as 'in-town' events - you sign up for them from the Events Diary. If these turn out to be fun, maybe we'll create a 'circuit of Evan' rally league, with a race outside each town.
Dreamthief Posted Dec 14, 2010, 9:58 am	Brilliant! Can't wait to give it a try when I get in from work.
lordbam Posted Dec 14, 2010, 11:29 am	Time to jump elms river again....
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 11:31 am	We just ran a 4-car test, it seemed to work well. Should be good as Pro events..
*SirLatte* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 1:16 pm	hehe...can do Deathrace Rallys too... but you dont shoot at each other...you get pirates to spawn and try to stop you.
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 1:24 pm	I need to do a little more work to get NPC pirates and/or creatures in there..
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Dec 14, 2010, 2:23 pm	just watched replay .. excellent .. when these going full live...they just going to be average events or can we order them like drs will they be pro only ?
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 2:25 pm	I'm just deciding what to do. They will work as either stock-car or Pro events. Certainly I'd like to create a 'circuit of Evan' rally to run once per game year. This one to offer some nice hardware prize. I think a few standalone per week would also be a good idea.
*Rev. V* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 3:16 pm	"This one to offer some nice hardware prize. " RGL Radar Guided Laser......
FireFly Posted Dec 14, 2010, 3:50 pm	LSHPL Laser Sighted Heavy Pulse Laser Jokes aside, Yes, oh god yes, can we have non-deathrace versions of this to? And following that, there is one map... "Blown with the wind"... the one between gw and SS... it really needs a checkpoint rally, it is practically made for checkpoint rally's!
*Tinker* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 4:04 pm	FireFly said: And following that, there is one map... "Blown with the wind"... the one between gw and SS... it really needs a checkpoint rally, it is practically made for checkpoint rally's! What would be fun is a giant tentacle beast lurking in the pond
*Jagged Monkey* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 4:27 pm	This sounds great. Just last night I was thinking of how cool it would be to have a ralley race across Evan. You're way ahead of me Sam.
Fifth Posted Dec 14, 2010, 4:31 pm	DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 7:49 pm	Jagged Monkey said: This sounds great.  Just last night I was thinking of how cool it would be to have a ralley race across Evan.  You're way ahead of me Sam. It has been requested for quite some time though, so I don't really feel ahead of the game with it
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:12 pm	I'm setting up some of these to run over the next few days, and from next week three non-league events will be scheduled per week: Mondays, 8.30pm, Somerset; Wednesdays, 4.30am, Gateway; Fridays, 9.30pm, Somerset There will also be a new league, the Circuit of Evan rally, starting in February 2057, with a race in a different town every Sunday for 8 weeks.
FireFly Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:14 pm	So.... No engine restrictions... No CR restrictions... 2 Entries per person... I think I have 2 firetrucks somewhere, hang on, let me go fetch them (To be fair, I think weapons might make it way to chaotic, but that's just my opinion )
*Bastille* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:16 pm	To have this a yearly event Evan Wide would be great, with the final down in FL.... ahh, I see you just typed that yourself while I was thinking of something witty to say
*Bastille* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:18 pm	2 entries per person might get a bit much in these I think. Every man women or child for themselves.
*Rev. V* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:19 pm	If those times are "your time", Sam.... It comes out to- Mon 3:30pm EST Wed 11:30pm EST Fri 4:30pm EST Ouch.
Fifth Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:20 pm	*sam* said: I think a few standalone per week would also be a good idea. Yup yup yup yup. For the casual, very non-league racer, (IE Me!) these look like a lot of fun.
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:20 pm	Bastiel said: 2 entries per person might get a bit much in these I think. Every man women or child for themselves. It's just the standalone ones I have set to 2 entries.. the league is going to allow just 1. Easy to change all to 1...
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:22 pm	FireFly said: So.... No engine restrictions... No CR restrictions... 2 Entries per person... I think I have 2 firetrucks somewhere, hang on, let me go fetch them  (To be fair, I think weapons might make it way to chaotic, but that's just my opinion  ) What should the CR/engine restriction be?
FireFly Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:22 pm	Also... the 3 events that are on the list are all... 22:30:00... I sure hope not, I cant make that time on weekdays I'm honestly not to sure, it might actually be better without restrictions depending on how you set it up, but engine classes would certainly be a good thing, all this depends on how often the events run thou. After I watched that replay, given that the checkpoints will go over hills like that, I don't think bringing heavy gear into the race will be viable, so I guess the CR restriction wont be a big deal. I don't know, I'm still worried about weaponry for these events, given that these are pro events, people can but quite powerful guns on their vehicles, it's not something you can really restrict because, given they are pro events, that's how it is. but I suppose making one of the events a 5l class event would be a good idea, but nothing lower than that, it would be painfully slow in the wilderness. Just one last thing, any plans for just pure rally racing, as while guns are fine, it makes it troubling to bring anything fun there, as racing with speedy cars, you wont last long
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:23 pm	FireFly said: Also... the 3 events that are on the list are all... 22:30:00... I sure hope not, I cant make that time on weekdays  These are just 3 I manually created. Won't be the normal times.
FireFly Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:34 pm	Well, I'll get to race next week then I guess... and darn, I've wanted this for so... so long Might I suggest another time for an event by the way, Saturday 22.00 server time, there are usually a lot of people online during that time, and it's one hour after the regular league event, so they shouldn't clash. (And yet another edited post) Actually, while those times for the events are good, think you can switch the time of the Monday and Wednesday event every other week, because currently, people in the European timezone will probably never get to race in GW, and people who live far of the server time will never get to race in SS. Keep the Friday time thou, that's a good one, imo.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:41 pm	sam said: It's just the standalone ones I have set to 2 entries.. the league is going to allow just 1. Easy to change all to 1... I was thinking if Pro events, it might make it too easy for those with more money/ power, one car kills em all with heavy armour, the other runs like its on fire. But I guess its not much different to normal Deathrace events. I mirror Fireflys concerns. I actually think stock cars would be the way to do these. But a whole bunch of classes from 30 to 150 would be good. Or maybe if 2 vehilces, a combined CR like in the SCL. I think the times look good, so you can all get gablotted and leave this one to us Aussies, we know whats best in the outback anyway.
*sam* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 8:48 pm	FireFly said: Might I suggest another time for an event by the way, Saturday 22.00 server time, there are usually a lot of people online during that time, and it's one hour after the regular league event, so they shouldn't clash.. OK
FireFly Posted Dec 14, 2010, 9:01 pm	By the way, if this catches on, think you'll expand it to maps beyond the gate maps? Like... blown with the wind... man... dude... those dunes, those sweet sweet dunes, these sweet dunes!!! You know you want to race on that map, you all know you do!
*Bastille* Posted Dec 14, 2010, 10:23 pm	Are the finer points mentioned anywhere? like the gates rules and so forth? Registering from the web only etc. Edit: ahh yes, in the original post.
Stingray191 Posted Dec 15, 2010, 6:13 am	After playing in the first one this morning I want more! Heaps of fun with people taking crazy different ways through checkpoints!
Lord Foul Posted Dec 15, 2010, 7:23 am
ISHOULDCOCO Posted Dec 15, 2010, 8:14 am	Looks good More Wilderness racing than "Point to point" Would it be possible tobuild your own courses on existing maps and submit them ? COCO
lordbam Posted Dec 15, 2010, 8:20 am	are the poles placed randomly or are they fixed?
*goat starer* Posted Dec 15, 2010, 9:45 am	a little team of men go out from Somerset and cement them into the floor. On some surfaces they are simply pile driven into the earth. When they are on rock guy ropes are used.
FireFly Posted Dec 15, 2010, 10:06 am	Sam said randomly, I think, and hope
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Dec 15, 2010, 11:17 am	yep, random placement every time
Fifth Posted Dec 15, 2010, 3:56 pm	Bastiel said: I was thinking if Pro events, it might make it too easy for those with more money/ power, one car kills em all with heavy armour, the other runs like its on fire. But I guess its not much different to normal Deathrace events. I mirror Fireflys concerns. I actually think stock cars would be the way to do these. But a whole bunch of classes from 30 to 150 would be good. Or maybe if 2 vehilces, a combined CR like in the SCL. I think the times look good, so you can all get gablotted and leave this one to us Aussies, we know whats best in the outback anyway.  AGREE. When are we gonna get to try this with stock cars so there's a level playing field? Can we set one of these up custom?
Mute Posted Dec 15, 2010, 7:14 pm	that rally was insanely fun. It combines the unpredictability a scout with the thrill of a race.
d0dger Posted Dec 15, 2010, 9:37 pm	darn, can't wait for one of these, race or death either way, that's in a timeslot I can hit. At work for two of the current ones, should be in bed for the other...
*Bastille* Posted Dec 16, 2010, 2:34 am	welcome to my world
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Dec 16, 2010, 11:40 am	Well i hope a few more sign up for this one 2010-12-16 22:30:00
*sam* Posted Dec 16, 2010, 12:00 pm	I probably will..
Stingray191 Posted Dec 16, 2010, 12:08 pm	8:30 am for me and I don't start work until 10:30 I had so much fun the first one (BTW damn your dual RL Sam!) that I'll be there.
*sam* Posted Dec 16, 2010, 12:30 pm	Bastiel said: welcome to my world  I was thinking, what I might do for the Circuit of Evan league which starts next season, is to have two events per week, with your best result in either being the one that counts? Suggested times:  Sundays 08:00 and 21:15 Would those times make this league viable for most people?
FireFly Posted Dec 16, 2010, 1:23 pm	Actually, I think 21.15 is a bit to late for a Sunday, Saturday it would make sense, but given these are wilderness death races, well, most people have work/school on Mondays, so I'd suggest something like 20.00, or even better, on Saturdays. Can't speak for the American friendly time, as my school starts an hour before the 08.00 event
FireFly Posted Dec 16, 2010, 2:31 pm	Oh... also... "In this league, you retain all points scored in any league event." Wouldn't that defeat the points of two events for different timezones, if a person could make both?
*sam* Posted Dec 16, 2010, 4:20 pm	FireFly said: Oh... also... "In this league, you retain all points scored in any league event." Wouldn't that defeat the points of two events for different timezones, if a person could make both?  Yes, it would. But I'm not creating the league on that model - it's going to be a 'best score from the week' model.
*sam* Posted Dec 16, 2010, 4:26 pm	FireFly said: Can't speak for the American friendly time, as my school starts an hour before the 08.00 event  On a Sunday?
FireFly Posted Dec 16, 2010, 4:40 pm	*sam* said: FireFly said: Can't speak for the American friendly time, as my school starts an hour before the 08.00 event  On a Sunday?  Oh, I read it wrong, wait... wake up around 8am... on a Sunday!?
*Wolfsbane* Posted Dec 16, 2010, 5:02 pm	Revel in the joys of GMT+1
Serephe Posted Dec 16, 2010, 8:42 pm	Nothing wrong with an 8am race on a sunday.
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Dec 16, 2010, 8:51 pm	Serephe said: Nothing wrong with an 8am race on a sunday. Well it wouldn't be for somebody who never sleeps
*Bastille* Posted Dec 16, 2010, 9:17 pm	Quote: Oh, I read it wrong, wait... wake up around 8am... on a Sunday!?  Welcome to my world, although, normally it would be a 5 am wake up call for a 6 am start for me and ON a school; work, lazy bludge day. Yay for something in my time slot!
Serephe Posted Dec 16, 2010, 9:18 pm	Bastiel said: Welcome to my world, although, normally it would be a 5 am wake up call for a 6 am start for me and ON a school; work, lazy bludge day. Yay for something in my time slot! This.
Stingray191 Posted Dec 18, 2010, 5:54 am	So no changes from when Latte took a Buzzer in and killed everyone? It's fine if not - that was an unusual positioning of gates involving the SS walls.
Serephe Posted Dec 18, 2010, 6:07 am	I'd hope no changes, nobody complained did they?
*Bastille* Posted Dec 18, 2010, 8:01 am	I thought it was great! The gates inside town, latte shooting everyone. Made for something really different and as it is I think one of the best new additions to the game. I hope theres more of this sort of random madness. I can still suck at the game and have fun at the same time
*Bastille* Posted Dec 19, 2010, 2:15 am	latest DeathRally event
johnny go Posted Dec 20, 2010, 10:50 pm	just completed one of theas , reeeealy good fun! good mix of cars to, seams every one had a different idea on how to play it
*sam* Posted Dec 20, 2010, 11:18 pm	Cool! I wanted to join this one as well, but had to cancel at the last minute..
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Dec 20, 2010, 11:30 pm	Bastiel said: latest DeathRally event I can see my batman bumper sticker.... before it got blown up!
*Bastille* Posted Dec 21, 2010, 12:33 am	Yeah I missed this one too.
Stingray191 Posted Dec 21, 2010, 6:26 am	Yes, some very interesting designs. Gonna have to change what I'm doing.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 21, 2010, 9:08 am	Next ones looks good
*sam* Posted Dec 21, 2010, 10:43 am	Looks like the buzzer came close to winning again?
*Bastille* Posted Dec 21, 2010, 11:12 am	speed still won the day though, but not by much. Someones gunna have to come up with a Klingon Butsa Busta!
Checkers Posted Dec 21, 2010, 11:54 am	It was a fun race. If anyone gets any photos of it, I'm the one in the blue and white Phoenix. Burd got ahead in the Eaton and left us all behind. The rest of us formed into groups before the second gate: I was with Tink, the Sonic (whoever was driving it) and the Apache, who split off from us after the fourth gate. Latte went straight for the finish after the second gate, but Burd had hit the fifth gate by then and was on his way to victory. Burd won, somehow, but Latte caught up to us once we all got to the sixth gate. I resigned once he started laying shots into me. My 4L is destroyed and I think my gang leader took some heavy hits.
*SirLatte* Posted Dec 21, 2010, 12:56 pm	I put a CC round into burd breached side from about 250 meters, knocking out his driver...then went to try and climb the hill to get that gate. This was the only side of the hill that was possible for my buzzer to climb...just happened to be near start finish line At this point i took out four others and started up the hill... thats when i noticed burd was awake and going full speed towards finish line. I took a few shots with rear gun hitting him but was to late. He almost knocked himself out running into Tinkers dead carand then slammed into finish line pull nearly destroying his engine and setting his car on fire It was a great race and smart thinking on his part. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Side note... to Sam. I like that these events are pretty rare...keeps everyone interested in them. I am hopefull that they stay that way because everyone is enjoying them. Might consider making half the races limited CR to keep me out of it... and the other half open.
*sam* Posted Dec 21, 2010, 1:00 pm	*SirLatte* said: Side note... to Sam. I like that these events are pretty rare...keeps everyone interested in them. I am hopefull that they stay that way because everyone is enjoying them. I agree. I think the amount of 'Pro' ones we have now, plus the new circuit of Evan league starting, should be plenty. *SirLatte* said: Might consider making half the races limited CR to keep me out of it... and the other half open. Yeah.. I was thinking we need to stop the big guns from over-dominating. Trouble is, it's classed as a deathrace not a combat so I can (currently) set minimum CR but not maximum!
Serephe Posted Dec 21, 2010, 1:34 pm	Hang on, you wouldn't come unless you're able to shoot everyone up, Latte? Shame on you.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Dec 21, 2010, 3:29 pm	Serephe said: Hang on, you wouldn't come unless you're able to shoot everyone up, Latte? Shame on you.  Pah, ever known Latte to want a fair fight
Karz Master Posted Dec 21, 2010, 7:01 pm	I know I shouldn't resubscribe. Darkwind nearly killed my mid-terms last semester. But this....this is seriously tearing away at the very fabric of my soul...
Fifth Posted Dec 21, 2010, 7:39 pm	*sam* said: Yeah.. I was thinking we need to stop the big guns from over-dominating. Trouble is, it's classed as a deathrace not a combat so I can (currently) set minimum CR but not maximum! Or set a stock car for them? Doing them with Asps would be fun.
d0dger Posted Dec 21, 2010, 7:48 pm	*sam* said: Yeah.. I was thinking we need to stop the big guns from over-dominating. Trouble is, it's classed as a deathrace not a combat so I can (currently) set minimum CR but not maximum! Just to note, this is an issue with non rally pro deathraces as well, and maybe it should be addressed for all deathraces... Perhaps increase the range of minimum CR settings and calculate a max that's 3 time the minimum or something along those lines.
*sam* Posted Dec 21, 2010, 8:16 pm	d0dger said: *sam* said: Yeah.. I was thinking we need to stop the big guns from over-dominating. Trouble is, it's classed as a deathrace not a combat so I can (currently) set minimum CR but not maximum! Just to note, this is an issue with non rally pro deathraces as well, and maybe it should be addressed for all deathraces... Perhaps increase the range of minimum CR settings and calculate a max that's 3 time the minimum or something along those lines. Yep.
Lord Foul Posted Dec 22, 2010, 2:46 am	*sam* said: I need to do a little more work to get NPC pirates and/or creatures in there.. Maybe until this happens you should have these events not launch unless there are at least 2 players registered. These events can spawn in towns that have little player population, so 1 player could join and simply run the course alone to claim the 20k.
*sam* Posted Dec 22, 2010, 12:08 pm	Lord Foul said: *sam* said: I need to do a little more work to get NPC pirates and/or creatures in there.. Maybe until this happens you should have these events not launch unless there are at least 2 players registered. These events can spawn in towns that have little player population, so 1 player could join and simply run the course alone to claim the 20k. They're only SS/GW for the moment.. (apart from the new league, but surely that will attract more)
Serephe Posted Dec 22, 2010, 12:15 pm	The gateway event was fun, with 2 checkpoints spawning on sheer cliffs. Latte wouldn't have been able to win THAT one. :P
*Bastille* Posted Dec 22, 2010, 12:35 pm	*sam* said: (apart from the new league, but surely that will attract more) I just noticed this for the first time,
*Tango* Posted Dec 22, 2010, 12:59 pm	Serephe said: The gateway event was fun, with 2 checkpoints spawning on sheer cliffs. Latte wouldn't have been able to win THAT one. :P 128716
*sam* Posted Dec 22, 2010, 2:30 pm	Haha, gate 7 was awesome!
Serephe Posted Dec 22, 2010, 3:45 pm	*sam* said: Haha, gate 7 was awesome! I'm not sure I like that reaction from the head dev in a game...  Just kidding, I laughed out loud though.
Ganthor Posted Dec 23, 2010, 6:39 pm	wait so is this a simpler/quicker/possibly-safer way to travel to other towns? (this game's community seems to have a way of discussing things that always goes over my head) would totally make sense from a narrative standpoint though. In order to facilitate regular trade and commerce between towns, organizers put the abundant supply of foolhardy deathracers to the task and made an event of it. Safer than traveling alone, and there's a prize to win at the end! ..or did I totally misunderstand this entire thing?
ISHOULDCOCO Posted Dec 23, 2010, 7:01 pm	Ganthor said: ..or did I totally misunderstand this entire thing? It is just an outdoor race But it has already been suggested that it could become a multi-part intercity race COCO
Ganthor Posted Dec 24, 2010, 9:31 am	ISHOULDCOCO said: Ganthor said: ..or did I totally misunderstand this entire thing? It is just an outdoor race But it has already been suggested that it could become a multi-part intercity race COCO poo, I was hoping this was going to be something to make the scarier parts of the game more accessible to casual weenie players like myself. oh wells, something for the suggestion forum.
*sam* Posted Dec 24, 2010, 10:15 am	Ganthor said: ISHOULDCOCO said: Ganthor said: ..or did I totally misunderstand this entire thing? It is just an outdoor race But it has already been suggested that it could become a multi-part intercity race COCO poo, I was hoping this was going to be something to make the scarier parts of the game more accessible to casual weenie players like myself. oh wells, something for the suggestion forum. Actually, that is an interesting spin on it. I have been considering how to make full wilderness deathracing work. Not sure it's actually safer though, if that's what you're looking for Ganthor.. the survival rate in these deathrallys hasn't been very high
Serephe Posted Dec 24, 2010, 10:20 am	Sam my ramtanker is 40 CR over the 200 limit. I'm very disappointed. How am I supposed to ram into people in a rolling bomb now?
*sam* Posted Dec 24, 2010, 12:23 pm	Nothing to do with me, you can take it up with the clawed mutant in the corner
MadDoggy Posted Dec 24, 2010, 2:09 pm	Stupid question maybe but are vehicles salvaged after a pro deathrally or are they lost as in a scout? Would that still be the case if raiders/critters are thrown into the mix?
*Bastille* Posted Dec 24, 2010, 8:12 pm	You keep whatever parts of your car Latte hasn't blown into little pieces. Gunna miss this one again Mary Axemas everyone!
Ganthor Posted Dec 24, 2010, 11:13 pm	*sam* said: Ganthor said: ISHOULDCOCO said: Ganthor said: ..or did I totally misunderstand this entire thing? It is just an outdoor race But it has already been suggested that it could become a multi-part intercity race COCO poo, I was hoping this was going to be something to make the scarier parts of the game more accessible to casual weenie players like myself. oh wells, something for the suggestion forum. Actually, that is an interesting spin on it. I have been considering how to make full wilderness deathracing work. Not sure it's actually safer though, if that's what you're looking for Ganthor.. the survival rate in these deathrallys hasn't been very high  the way I was imagining it was that it was a town-to-town race featuring a bunch of npc racers and then road pirates and wildlife could show up along the way tusken raider style if they want, but because theres all these other npc racers to distract them the chances of making it through are considerably higher than doing it alone. My understanding of the distance between the towns is completely null, but if a straight dash would take too long, perhaps there could be checkpoint camps along the way.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 24, 2010, 11:20 pm	goat starer ran a rally event from SS to FL similar to what you mention, and a return is on the books I believe. Rez is running something similar out of shanty too. check the forums for details. As for mentioned, travelling alone is much safer than these deathrally events. Check the replay from todays/previous event/s
Iron Wraith Posted Dec 24, 2010, 11:35 pm	Having just witnessed the most recent iteration of this event type, I must regretfully conclude that it doesn't add anything to the game in it's current format. When someone can front up in a garbage truck of all things and just blast all the opposition before they have even passed the first gate, and a buzzer can take a short cut by bypassing all the gates so they can stand guard over the 4th gate, I really don't see what the point is. Yeeehah, I've got shed loads of cash and I'll bring a sandcrawler. Sure it can't race for crap, but it's got more guns than cowboys wedding, all I have to do is park at the end and kill everyone who tries to compete. When they are all dead, I'll just spend 3 hours snail tracking back round the course. Seems a bit pointless, you might as well just rate the teams in order of wealth and hand the prizes out that way. OK, rant over. Time for the constructive bit. 1) Don't allow firing until you have passed though at least one gate. 2) Time limit the finish i.e if you don't finish the race X turns after the last resignation or person passes the post you do not get to finish and you do not place. 3) Auto-resign any competitor that doesn't make it through the gate x turns after the first competitor makes it through. 4) Change the game engine so that these oversized vehicles aren't so outrageously agile. 5) Disable the guns of the participant who has passed though the least number of gates. One or more of the above should mean that players enter vehicles that at least stand a chance of keeping up. This new event type is a major inovation and deserves to be better than the munchkin fest I saw tonight.
*SirLatte* Posted Dec 24, 2010, 11:58 pm	Not sure what the answer is...guessing just making some of these events open CR and others being limited CR would help...and sure Sam already looking at that.... Making a set time to get through each gate or auto resign isnt bad either... however would have to be a fairly long time.. in my second event I had to go way around set of hills to even come close to finding a spot that I could climb... just happened that side of hill was by next set of gates and was able to slow the leaders When I brought the buzzer the first time it was all in fun... I certainly didnt mean to create a trend.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 25, 2010, 1:13 am	the above points might help balance things out a bit. If these were to become dominated by heavy vehicles with snipers it become a little dull and boring. That said... The gates in this one made it a good one for heavy vehicles. Fences needed to be shot to make it through the all the gates, I think. Fast cars only may not have been able to finish. Not sure, I only watched a few turns. The combination of vehicles can make for some real interesting events, fast vehicles could still have gotten away here with some luck. Flame was doing well before his drop out issues. I was being being a twat here. Over reaction on people not paying attention to some ones drop out. Maybe it was not noticed. little sleep, too much coffee, and Santa didn't bring me the girl from big bang theory for Christmas.
Serephe Posted Dec 25, 2010, 4:45 am	Bas Aussies are always twats, it's cool.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 25, 2010, 6:35 am	Quote: Aussies get all the twats, it's cool. I guess its part of the responsibility of being a mythical creature
Stingray191 Posted Dec 25, 2010, 7:55 am	I was wondering when TG would make an appearance +1 to most of IW suggestions.
ISHOULDCOCO Posted Dec 25, 2010, 12:44 pm	Iron wraith is right Deathrally event is broken I think WIDER GATES is a benefit ( only 50%) but enough to squeeze through fast CR limit is not a clear solution Just get a tough SUV with lower armour and park it at the end gate to wipe folk out (deathrallies are never straight) CR limit would have to be tighter ranges ( probably three ranges) Or maybe a device that requires players to fulfill a certain gate - You must pass gate 1 by the time the fastest car passes gate 4 and you must past gate 4 be the time the fastest car passes the finishing line . Or maybe The slowest car is disqualified at each gate ( i like this one) please suggest alternate methods or shoot these ones down COCO
*sam* Posted Dec 27, 2010, 12:58 pm	ISHOULDCOCO said: The slowest car is disqualified at each gate ( i like this one) This could work, yeah.. maybe not for the first 3 gates, though
Serephe Posted Dec 27, 2010, 1:00 pm	Just make sure you don't make it impossible to finish a race just for lack of players. Perhaps if there's not enough players there's more bugs/pirate attacks/etc. Edit: Better yet, just disable offensive weapons on the last place vehicle. That way newer players who might be bad at driving can still finish.
Juris Posted Dec 27, 2010, 9:37 pm	30 Turns per gate per vehicle or else it's like missing a checkpoint - engine shuts off etc.
Djihani Posted Dec 27, 2010, 9:55 pm	Make all participant characters heavy Zerkers firing on random cars might prevent some insane lazor BPU CC Buzz teamupps... trucing in NPCfilled reatchraces i guess is ok but when the big guys combine it gets crazy. Had me the funnest race in a long time tho today, fearing for death every turn. Was fun only bc i survived tho
Zephyr Posted Dec 27, 2010, 11:15 pm	I gotta say I agree with Wraith's post. Since I can't afford to rally with CC buzzers or laser-armed BPUs, my ony other option is to use throwaway vehicles and gangers and hope that one slips past the notice of the sniper elite. Disqualifying / shutting down vehicles that don't go through the gates in sequence is a start; no shooting until you pass the first gate is good too; also etablish a "pace" (say, one gate every 50 turns) whereby your vehicle is shut down if you don't keep up the pace. As it is, it is unconscionable that someone can miss a gate, blow up bunches of people, and then wind up placing. As soon as they get the "so-and-so has missed a checkpoint" message, the car should shut down or at least they should be unable to place in the race after that point.
Djihani Posted Dec 27, 2010, 11:31 pm	on the other hand, you can just drive past the gates, theres a bigger chance of someone missing a gate by honest mistake than a vet missing one on purpose once we all know the rules. you could just keep running past the gates and not pass one until youve killed everyone at any gate and then go back to finish em in order.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 27, 2010, 11:56 pm	Its quite easy to run past a gate when you've been hit with 3 ATG rounds in the back, but to miss two in a row would be really hard by accident unless the gates are overlapping or right next to each other, so I think the reduced engine power would work well. Its quite possible for someone to have a poor start and catch up, and I don't think that should be penalised by disqualification of the last player. No weapon fire until you have past the first gate would be good to mind, but the I guess the first to make it through has a great advantage. A tough one to balance.
*sam* Posted Dec 28, 2010, 1:10 pm	How about this for a solution: you can only shoot at cars who are on the same checkpoint as you.
Serephe Posted Dec 28, 2010, 1:29 pm	I'd include the checkpoint ahead and behind, also. 1 xxxxxx 2 ------- 3 -----o----- 4 --------- 5 xxxxxxxxxxx6 Where x means no shooty, - means shooty, and o is the car.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 28, 2010, 2:25 pm	Whens the next one, I've missed heaps now.. damnit! ... (all good, I can check, just needed to vent my disappointment of not being able to make it as of late. These events are great) I think Goat summed it up well in what I have read of the other related thread so far {let em gang up} this may not work for all players depending on their social time/status/whatever, but with the tips laid out in the thread form other b@$^@rds/players ( all with respect, love ya style Joel), all this may prove to be jumping the gun a bit. I have not read the other thread completely yet though.
*sam* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 11:55 am	I have just patched in the following: 1. Most deathrallies (and all in the upcoming new league) will now be 'EAA rules on'. This means you can only shoot at a car who is on the same checkpoint as yours. I did this intentionally so that there will be a brief 'lull' in the firing as each car passes a gate.. should make for interesting racing. I have removed the 'engine cut-off' rule that applies in normal deathraces when you miss gates, as it seemed unnecessary in these events. 2. About one-third of the Pro deathrallies will be 'EAA rules off' -- so you can play these with underhand tactics, etc. 3. There will also be two Pro rallies per week.. these are the same as deathrallies except with no weapons.
JS Posted Dec 29, 2010, 12:29 pm	Perfect. Thanks Sam.
d0dger Posted Dec 29, 2010, 1:28 pm	Sounds so fun! Will we eventually be able to join directly through the lobby? I'd love to be able to tune suspension settings for the offroad terrain.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 1:38 pm	yeah, nice call
*goat starer* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 6:14 pm	This is all REALLy disappointing... once more we have a situation where the actions of a minority that would be easily fixed by a player community response results in a knee jerk developer reaction that constrains the game .. limits it ... and makes it less fun. shark was being dealt with by players but we got stupid restrictions on PVP championed by people who were not involved in either the difficulties or teh response. joel was easy to deal with in death races but we got the same knee jerk response to create EEA rules this is another good example. easily dealable with if people work together... actually only myself and serephe made any attempt to work together on responding to it (and had i not been under the delusion that when i let kom live as (what i thought was) a mate he would stop shooting at me it would have worked. so we get a developer response that makes invention and tactics go out of teh window and moves the wilderness rallies towards pac man
*Tango* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 7:46 pm	*sam* said: I have just patched in the following: 1. Most deathrallies (and all in the upcoming new league) will now be 'EAA rules on'. This means you can only shoot at a car who is on the same checkpoint as yours. I did this intentionally so that there will be a brief 'lull' in the firing as each car passes a gate.. should make for interesting racing. I have removed the 'engine cut-off' rule that applies in normal deathraces when you miss gates, as it seemed unnecessary in these events. 2. About one-third of the Pro deathrallies will be 'EAA rules off' -- so you can play these with underhand tactics, etc. 3. There will also be two Pro rallies per week.. these are the same as deathrallies except with no weapons. thanks Sam! good call
*Rev. V* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 7:52 pm	"so you can play these with underhand tactics, etc. " Heh, Sam just called a *Marshal* underhanded.....
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Dec 29, 2010, 8:20 pm	I'm incredibly underhanded
*Rev. V* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 9:00 pm
*sam* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 10:33 pm	goat starer said: This is all REALLy disappointing... once more we have a situation where the actions of a minority that would be easily fixed by a player community response results in a knee jerk developer reaction that constrains the game .. limits it ... and makes it less fun. shark was being dealt with by players but we got stupid restrictions on PVP championed by people who were not involved in either the difficulties or teh response. joel was easy to deal with in death races but we got the same knee jerk response to create EEA rules this is another good example. easily dealable with if people work together... actually only myself and serephe made any attempt to work together on responding to it (and had i not been under the delusion that when i let kom live as (what i thought was) a mate he would stop shooting at me it would have worked. so we get a developer response that makes invention and tactics go out of teh window and moves the wilderness rallies towards pac man sam, elsewhere said: The argument that players will evolve counter-strategies sounds ok in principle, but the reality is that many of our players are casual/occasional and have no interest in being forced to negotiate complex agreements and multi-player tactics when all they want is a fun deathrace. All they will see is an event in which they will get slaughtered by well-organised vets. Their response will be to not play these events again. Also, letting an event (d)evolve into a pitched battle every time is equivalent to letting the event be a wilderness combat rather than a deathrace. I want these particular events to be deathraces - if I wanted them to be pitched battles I would have coded them differently. Now, there *will* be some non-EAA versions. If these turn out to be popular, I'll be happy to create a non-EAA version of the new league..
Serephe Posted Dec 29, 2010, 10:35 pm	Looks good to me, caters to both sides of the game.
Iron Wraith Posted Dec 29, 2010, 10:49 pm	Goat: The community acting together would be fine if we had a community like that. Sadly some old hands that have been here since nineteen hundred and frozen to death have unlimited budget and unlimited stupidly overpowered vehicles. The game AI has got harder as time has gone on, therefore by definition if you started earlier you got your toys easier. Once you have buzzers to play with many of the normal NPC vehcicles cease to be a challenge. As a non-sub, I am holding at the newb level of equipment, though I have 2.2 million in the bank, I can't spend it. I have played on and off for over a year, so I have a pretty good handle on how the game works. My perspective on the game is therefore geared to the newb players. A newb in the death rallies doesn't stand a cat in hells chance against and old hander if he deiced to cut it rough. Even if you manage to get him in the race he has unlimted resources to wipe you out (All in RP fun of course). The game needs more people playing, retention is important, but a hundred million buzzer vet still only pays 1 subscription fee. If catering for them means 100 newbs don't bother to subscribe, there is a net loss. Your stand point forces us to a feudal society where all the peasnats have to swear fealty to the local "Boss" so he protects them against the nasty other "Boss". This is very far from the communist ideal you usually try to foster.
Lord Foul Posted Dec 29, 2010, 10:58 pm	Sam said: Quote: This means you can only shoot at a car who is on the same checkpoint as yours. Something does not seem right about this part. If player A is going through checkpoint 3 and player B is going through checkpoint 2, player B is not allowed to shoot at player A even if checkpoints 2 and 3 are only 20M apart? I could see not allowing a player to fire on another 2 checkpoints apart , but not 1.
*Tango* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 11:01 pm	Iron Wraith said: Goat: A newb in the death rallies doesn't stand a cat in hells chance against and old hander if he deiced to cut it rough.  Even if you manage to get him in the race he has unlimted resources to wipe you out (All in RP fun of course). Your stand point forces us to a feudal society where all the peasnats have to swear fealty to the local "Boss" so he protects them against the nasty other "Boss".  This is very far from the communist ideal you usually try to foster.
*SirLatte* Posted Dec 29, 2010, 11:26 pm	Iron Wraith said: Your stand point forces us to a feudal society where all the peasnats have to swear fealty to the local "Boss" so he protects them against the nasty other "Boss".  This is very far from the communist ideal you usually try to foster. Oh I like this... Kneel before me Peasant and swear fealty and maybe I ll let you polish my Monsterously over powered vehicles.
Joel Autobaun Posted Dec 29, 2010, 11:37 pm	Iron Wraith said: Goat: The community acting together would be fine if we had a community like that.  Sadly some old hands that have been here since nineteen hundred and frozen to death have unlimited budget and unlimited stupidly overpowered vehicles. The game AI has got harder as time has gone on, therefore by definition if you started earlier you got your toys easier.  Once you have buzzers to play with many of the normal NPC vehcicles cease to be a challenge. As a non-sub, I am holding at the newb level of equipment, though I have 2.2 million in the bank, I can't spend it.  I have played on and off for over a year, so I have a pretty good handle on how the game works.  My perspective on the game is therefore geared to the newb players. A newb in the death rallies doesn't stand a cat in hells chance against and old hander if he deiced to cut it rough.  Even if you manage to get him in the race he has unlimted resources to wipe you out (All in RP fun of course). The game needs more people playing, retention is important, but a hundred million buzzer vet still only pays 1 subscription fee.  If catering for them means 100 newbs don't bother to subscribe, there is a net loss. Your stand point forces us to a feudal society where all the peasnats have to swear fealty to the local "Boss" so he protects them against the nasty other "Boss".  This is very far from the communist ideal you usually try to foster. You know what? What a bunch of bull####! I'm gonna get into some rare FF style bragging here to prove a point.  I came in this game just at a time a couple of people who played as much a JS and bully people way more than I ever dreamed, got bored (of the lack of PvP from what I understand) and left. I entered all the leagues I could, straight out the gate and Won quite a few in my first seasons, competing against many people who were "vets" to my "noob" (terms which I frankly think are bull#### past 3months of play).  I won many, and why is that?  Cause people hardly ever enter "good" gangers in them.  Mostly.  Most people with the best gangers still don't risk them, not like I do.  It's no surprise I get along nearly uniformly with players that DO like to speed their heart rate up now and then when playing a fuking VIDEOGAME. There used to be PVP ANYWHERE, even in SS and anyone at any time could be attacked and shark was picking on people like ME when I started.  You want to tell me the game is harder, get a grip.  Maybe I should start just redding people constantly in pro combat to give you guys a proper sense of horror. You fkin peons have been playing the "carebear have more money"(more subscriptions) ####ing card since I started playing this game and have ruined the gameplay and successfully chased away ALL the PvPer's.  Well done without firing a shot this fantasy wasteland is a civilized republic complete with FCKING MANNERS.  I have YET , YET to ever see someone quit because of the PvP in this game.  MANY have left because it almost DOES NOT EXIST.  $$$ Lost for Sam. Kiss my ass, you guys think i'm so mean you ask Tango how fking mean I can be....  It's an empty threat for the most part, the game Sam has given so many outs to survive even the most pants down PvP encounter. You pukes are so fkin scared of losing FACE, not equipment.  I don't give a #### about either anymore.  I don't care if I have to lose 9 times to bring someone to tears once after this debacle. Edit:  BTW Sam good patch, lol...
Iron Wraith Posted Dec 29, 2010, 11:51 pm	Joel, how many times have you taken on someone like your top ganger in his garbage truck with a 30 skill gunner in a vampire and won?
Joel Autobaun Posted Dec 29, 2010, 11:54 pm	Iron Wraith said: Joel, how many times have you taken on someone like your top ganger in his garbage truck with a 30 skill gunner in a vampire and won? Son yer just never gonna know...you need to get over it.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 12:02 am	to be fair, he does take risks too IW. You both take much more risks than I do anyways. I find it hard to play with underhanded tactics, its a trait I don't appreciate in the real world, but it is life, and it is one of the stand out points to this game. I'd like to see all enjoy the game and this includes old school players like Joel and Goat, who now find their world getting destroyed. Strangely, the more I risk, the more stuff seems to fall in my lap . I find it hard to swallow my pride when I get beat, but I don't play half or 1/30th of the amount others do. Practice makes perfect, and in this world, that stuff shows. Now.. its Christmas, lets all get along and shoot each in the back like we're supposed to
d0dger Posted Dec 30, 2010, 12:24 am	We could have a server wipe of all the gangs and gear today and in another year we'd have all the same people complaining now about all the same people they are now for all the same reasons they are now. Grow up. Quit whining. Play the game. I haven't been playing for a year yet, and I don't get to play every day, or for nearly as many hours a week as a lot of other players. I wasn't around in the 'golden old days' when the AI was 'so much easier' and the 'phat lewtz fell from the trees' I get all the same bull#### comments about my gear and 'uber elite' gangers as the guys who have been around for 2 and 3 years. Go look up Hitmen Trucking, JS's gang. He's got gear and gangers that'd make most 'vets' drool. When did he start playing? Jan 9, 2010. How'd he manage that in this oppressive environment where vets drive all the newbs away? Maybe he just played the game? The argument about how much easier things used to be, and how much harder it is now doesn't hold water, it's BS. I think Sam's on the right track with the SCL league where gear is a bit limited and there are multiple divisions with varying ceilings to the skills of gangers used to make for a more even playing field. I'm confident that eventually we'll see something of that nature in other event/league types as well. But remember he's just one guy (part time none the less) putting together all this marvelous code and content we all enjoy so well, when we aren't wasting our time bitching about it. It's gonna take some time. It's never going to be as fast as you'd like. In the meantime, I suggest you play the game where and how you enjoy it in it's current state, and continue to make positive, constructive comments and criticisms for improvement. This is one of the few games out there where some of those suggestions will sometimes, eventually, be implemented. Enough pundit riding, I've got pirates to kill.
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Dec 30, 2010, 12:52 am	Iron Wraith said: Joel, how many times have you taken on someone like your top ganger in his garbage truck with a 30 skill gunner in a vampire and won? For the CR to be matched the garbage truck would have to have only 1 or 2 guns; either that or there'd be about 5 or 6 vamps against a fully armed TT. Either way, it's perfectly possible that the 'noob' in this scenario can win if he keeps a cool head and knows how to play the game.
Serephe Posted Dec 30, 2010, 12:55 am	Brings to mind the new guy that almost took out one of Darthspanky's super buzzers using a couple of junk cars.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 1:26 am	Gee, who was that
*sam* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 2:46 am	Lord Foul said: Sam said: Quote: This means you can only shoot at a car who is on the same checkpoint as yours. Something does not seem right about this part. If player A is going through checkpoint 3 and player B is going through checkpoint 2, player B is not allowed to shoot at player A even if checkpoints 2 and 3 are only 20M apart? I could see not allowing a player to fire on another 2 checkpoints apart , but not 1. No, I think this could be interesting. You'll get periods where you can fire at the guy in front of you and periods where you can't (and he won't be able to either).. could be quite tactical..
FireFly Posted Dec 30, 2010, 2:51 am	*sam* said: Lord Foul said: Sam said: Quote: This means you can only shoot at a car who is on the same checkpoint as yours. Something does not seem right about this part. If player A is going through checkpoint 3 and player B is going through checkpoint 2, player B is not allowed to shoot at player A even if checkpoints 2 and 3 are only 20M apart? I could see not allowing a player to fire on another 2 checkpoints apart , but not 1. No, I think this could be interesting. You'll get periods where you can fire at the guy in front of you and periods where you can't (and he won't be able to either).. could be quite tactical.. that sounds pretty interesting, I agree to that, rushing to gates to get a few turns free of fire, then the guns start blazing again.
Lord Foul Posted Dec 30, 2010, 4:40 am	True, though if someone breaks away from the main pack early enough(especially with a faster car) it may become difficult to do anything to stop them from getting away and winning. From the events I’ve been in and seen so far, most of the combat takes place early and a few players manage to break away from the combat. Of course once other players see this they will try and go after the ones breaking away but once the ones breaking away make it to another checkpoint, they may become completely safe for the rest of the event unless a car chasing them has better acceleration/top speed or one the gates loops back towards the chaser. Hopefully I’m wrong in this view and this change makes the events more interesting.
d0dger Posted Dec 30, 2010, 5:52 am	most of the time there's a double back on the gates
*Rev. V* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 6:56 am	"Your stand point forces us to a feudal society" Well, no *SH!T* Sherlock. What WAS Lord Humongous? A *RULER* of what was, in many aspects a model of an early feudal society. Did he, or did he NOT have an army laying siege to a fortification? Was he or was he NOT laying claim to an area based on HIS will and force of arms? You can bet your ass he had income from the surrounding land, no matter if they liked it or not... He had a champion, and a herald.... What, you love the movies about the "flavor", but still want to be "special"? Sorry bro, you can have your can of dog food on the ridge overlooking the compound, but you can't eat it too. Please understand, I'm not trying to be a dick, or wreck your fun, but, yeah, it WOULD be EXACTLY like that.
Iron Wraith Posted Dec 30, 2010, 9:31 am	Stop! I have not said that feudalism is a bad model for the game, I said Goat was effectively arguing for it rather than his usual espousal of socialism - which is surely the developer changing society for the better My opinion on feudalism was never stated. I have not said "Boo Hoo, not fair other people have more stuff than me". I said that players who have been playing for a long time have more stuff and better equipment than paople who haven't been playing so long (or by extension frequently). That means there is an inequality. I have not said the inequality is a bad thing, it is inevitable and so I accept it. What I do not accept is basing arguments on some hypothetical reality where the peasants can storm the castle. The subject was death rallies. I voiced my opinion on what I thought would improve them, as have others. Sam has now acted on those suggestions, I trust his judgement in his game on what he deems good to implement. I will carry on playing or not how I like which in no way affects your enjoyment of the game.
Iron Wraith Posted Dec 30, 2010, 9:44 am	CR balancing merely "balances" the combat capabilities of the vehicle, it does not address the issue of a 300 skill gunner goign up against a 30 skill gunner. I was amazed at the range that Joel was consistently getting first shot kills with his tank gun. Even my best gunner (Skill 50) takes a few ranging shots. Joel: I am no care bear. If you recall I was one of the ones supporting your use of pedestrians in death races as legal and reasonable. I dont disagree with a wilderness PvP hunt. I think that is what it should be billed as though, not a death rally with checkpoints. As for checkpoints, maybe keep the same distance, but reduce the number of checkpoints to 5. a) That would allow more shooting time with the "only engage people on your stage" rule. b) Reduce the likelyhood of doubleback stages. c) Allow a greater variety of routes (making hunting more of a hunt rather than setting up a pillbox). d) Spread the race out.
*goat starer* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 11:47 am	Iron Wraith said: A newb in the death rallies doesn't stand a cat in hells chance against and old hander if he deiced to cut it rough.  Even if you manage to get him in the race he has unlimted resources to wipe you out (All in RP fun of course). that nit is simply untrue. having used much of MY unlimited resources trying to wipe various minnows out over the years I can attest to the fact that it is all but impossible to even kill one or two characters let alone wipe them out. Vets are always getting people killed in deathraces by new people and then jumping up and down crying about it... but i can only remember one incident where a vet REALLY wiped out a significant part of a new persons gang... that was Darth against Ivan when team killing was still allowed in scouts and Ivan had killed one of Darths people in a Deathrace. Thats once in 4 years. Using methods that have now been removed). as for this bit... *sam* said: Lord Foul said: Sam said: Quote: This means you can only shoot at a car who is on the same checkpoint as yours. Something does not seem right about this part. If player A is going through checkpoint 3 and player B is going through checkpoint 2, player B is not allowed to shoot at player A even if checkpoints 2 and 3 are only 20M apart? I could see not allowing a player to fire on another 2 checkpoints apart , but not 1. No, I think this could be interesting. You'll get periods where you can fire at the guy in front of you and periods where you can't (and he won't be able to either).. could be quite tactical.. it doesnt make it interesting.. it makes it deeply unrealistic. The idea that some set of 'rules' could possibly be adhered to by people who cant quite see the relative locations of gates and cars on rough terrain in the heat of a battle is preposterous. This is a very good example of a game element that breaks RP. ---------------------- The correct solution... as with all of this is to make rules but make them enforceable not by the game preventing things from happening... but by penalties ... losing podium positions... gaining dislike from factions.. incurring fines etc. thats how it works in real racing... this changing of the physical universe to change behaviour sticks in my throat.
*Tinker* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 12:09 pm	I'm glad we can have it both ways, one for the tacticians and one for gritty realism. But things are starting to get complicated from a noob perspective, is there a clear indication of the rules on the event page? A simple set of rules that clarify everything? such as are Psionics even allowed anymore ?
*sam* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 12:12 pm	*Tinker* said: I'm glad we can have it both ways, one for the tacticians and one for gritty realism. But things are starting to get complicated from a noob perspective, is there a clear indication of the rules on the event page? A simple set of rules that clarify everything? such as are Psionics even allowed anymore ? On the event page and league page, it is mentioned whether EAA rules are being enforced or not. There is a 'Community Comment' attached to this which explains what these rules mean.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 1:32 pm	Maybe the new change for gates and shooting could be implemented through goats points? Quote: ... but by penalties ... losing podium positions... gaining dislike from factions.. incurring fines etc. It could make for some confusion, and has plenty of possibilities to work around the penalties, but might seem more realistic. It would make it possible to stop that bolter?
Joel Autobaun Posted Dec 30, 2010, 2:24 pm	Iron Wraith said: CR balancing merely "balances" the combat capabilities of the vehicle, it does not address the issue of a 300 skill gunner goign up against a 30 skill gunner. I was amazed at the range that Joel was consistently getting first shot kills with his tank gun.  Even my best gunner (Skill 50) takes a few ranging shots. Joel:  I am no care bear.  If you recall I was one of the ones supporting your use of pedestrians in death races as legal and reasonable.  I dont disagree with a wilderness PvP hunt.  I think that is what it should be billed as though, not a death rally with checkpoints. I guess I picked your particular post to express my dissatisfaction with the attitude of the disgruntled "majority" of more casual players. (not really most DW players probably play more than me now). I would have ignored it had you not mentioned the Money Sam might lose if things don't go your way.  That is the game forum equivalent of a straw-man argument to get your way with the game developer.  It will never be tolerated, not by me after seeing my own delight with this game diminished with nearly every PvP carebear "feature" implemented. For the record, I have one 300 HANDgunner I use in paintball.  He will not see PvP combat(if I can help it) until nearly when my sub runs out.  I do not understand why *I* get the rep for having massive gangers, if JS woke up with my gang tomorrow he's be on the PM box to Sam asking for a refund. I do not even have one 200 GUNNER.  I have two 200 Large gunners that might have been involved in one friendly PvP with Goat.  No events with other players. I do not throw away low cappers, I cross-train them quickly and gain my most pleasure turning them into evil bastards.  Most are sorely missed when they die not for their elite status but for all the damage they caused. I currently play 2-3 scouts a week on average, though I do have burst of activity when properly motivated.  I mostly race, do a few quick solo scouts and sometimes devise evil plans to cause destruction, mayhem and most of all...fun, when you really think about it.
*sam* Posted Dec 30, 2010, 3:02 pm	Joel Autobaun said: I would have ignored it had you not mentioned the Money Sam might lose if things don't go your way.  That is the game forum equivalent of a straw-man argument to get your way with the game developer.  It will never be tolerated, not by me after seeing my own delight with this game diminished with nearly every PvP carebear "feature" implemented. Just for the record, I never listen to these arguments about what will grow or shrink the playerbase and/or profits. I have learned long ago that these arguments are pure speculation and in fact there is no way of having any accurate idea of how many potential players are attracted or driven away for one reason or another. My approach is to make the game as widely fun as possible, nothing more.
Iron Wraith Posted Dec 30, 2010, 3:02 pm	My comments weren't specifically directed at you Joel, Your gang was prominent in my mind because of the mighty destruction wrought by your garbage truck, but you didn't skip gates as far as I am aware (just struggled getting to them up those steep hills.) The only thread I post in to try to get my own way is the suggestions thread. I will probably never compete in a pro death rally as I can't. In the non-pro events I imagine everyone will be using the same vehicles and therefore all will have the same options - making it as fair as possible in this game. If I see something that I think warrants consideration by Sam, I will say so. I try to be measured and positive and offer solutions to the problems I perceive. You may not agree, That's fine, shoot down the arguments and I may even change my mind. I too can't play this game as I would like. Personal issues prevent me from playing extended PvP (and in my experience, there has been no other kind). I eagerly await the stand alone game where I can save when our one year old forgets how to stand up, or soils herself. I also have an agreement with the wife after one too many post midnight group scouts. I enjoyed the few dedicated PvP that I had. None of these required the tortuous mechanisms that other seem to need. Ask for a ladder event, voila PvP. Have a pink slip arena combat, voila PvP. Even go out on a scout and agree that you can shoot at your team mates as well as the enemy. There used to be a custom wilderness challenge as well if I recall. Plenty of ways for consensual PvP. If this is to remain a game rather than an ego trip however, the other party must always agreed to PvP. You don't know what my time constraints are, jumping me when you feel like it isn't really fair. The game should be fair, because it is a game. Fair isn't the same as easy. The game accomodates self-scheduling, players should too. Your comment about 3 months is apposite. That is the usual points of re-sub. If you re-sub once, you will probably continue to do so. My concern is macho-fests will discourage re-subbing by newbs who see it all as just too hard. I have had friends to whom I evangelised about this game (who irritatingly didn't mention my ID when they subbed). They didn't re-sub because of "unfair" combat outcomes. In my opinion these are not munchkins looking for easy success, but hard core gamers. So I don't see it as a straw man agument at all, simply anecdotal. Your mileage may vary.
Joel Autobaun Posted Dec 30, 2010, 4:50 pm	Kinda Funny, I pretty much don't do group scouts because that is the only thing that caused flak from the CINC House (Commander in Chief of the house).    Those are the biggest time sucks I've ever seen in this game.  I have done everything in this game.  They are often the primary event of "OMG I can't PvP I don't have time for it", crowd. I guess we can take you anecdotal account of people who dropped because they didn't feel they could plug into the power creep.  I don't think they would have stayed regardless.  DW is one of the easiest games to get into the Power creep and hold it by the balls even playing casually.  You just have to use some good strategy and read the wiki.  I can list specific well known players who left, bored with a lack of PvP however.  People who otherwise enjoyed the game. Ego is irrelevant,  Some players love to show off fancy equipment in group scouts as a friend to make people go Oooooh Ahhhhh....Some love to defeat a hated enemy, some just love to see numbers go up(don't get this - get a calculator and keep hitting add/multiply.), Some love to immerse themselves in the fantasy of the gameworld, but could really do without all the other assholes trying to do the same thing and so on...there is amazing depth to this game for it's seeming simplicity. However I will point out that an original Staple of this game was PvP.  Point by point this has retreated, largely to complaints by players whom have barely even participated in it, it has largely ALWAYS been consensual (the omission was when SS was dangerous to intercepts).  With the PvP flag, which is not going away, the fact surrendering (alive)gangers ALWAYS make it back to town and numerous other "outs" Sam has provided this pathetic whining sect of carebears...well they will still bitch after even one true pvp event.  Which of course they didn't have to enter.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 31, 2010, 12:14 am	Quote: largely to complaints by players whom have barely even participated in it, Guilty  I see the error of my ways and try work to a common goal. Quote: I do not throw away low cappers, I cross-train them quickly and gain my most pleasure turning them into evil bastards.  Most are sorely missed when they die not for their elite status but for all the damage they caused. I really respect this, some of my fav guys are low cappers. Vernon "Olli" {the Zerker} Ollinger {80ish}, "Carcus" {70ish}, "Volli" {100*}.. all well respected members of my gang.
Serephe Posted Dec 31, 2010, 1:00 am	A crosstrained 70ish cap is perfectly fine to use. Can still get lv2 rapidreload lv2 sniper. That'll kick the ass of any AI you come across.
*sam* Posted Dec 31, 2010, 1:48 pm	OK, we are going to have two separate circuit of Evan deathrallys each year... Circuit of Evan I: races are Sundays, 8:00 and 21:00, EAA rules will apply Circuit of Evan II: races are Sundays, 10:00 and 23:00, EAA rules will NOT apply The events start in February with the SS race, and then move town each week: SS > Elms > GW > BL > TX > SF > FL > SV I'm hoping we'll get a bit of fun going with squads migrating between towns, a bit like the "F1 Circus" rolling into town..
*Longo* Posted Dec 31, 2010, 4:04 pm	*sam* said: OK, we are going to have two separate circuit of Evan deathrallys each year... Circuit of Evan I:  races are Sundays, 8:00 and 21:00, EAA rules will apply Circuit of Evan II:  races are Sundays, 10:00 and 23:00, EAA rules will NOT apply The events start in February with the SS race, and then move town each week:  SS > Elms > GW > BL > TX > SF > FL > SV I'm hoping we'll get a bit of fun going with squads migrating between towns, a bit like the "F1 Circus" rolling into town..  ugh...Im off Thur, Fri, and Sat each week, and you make em Sunday....
Serephe Posted Dec 31, 2010, 9:58 pm	Bug: Even if you're not allowed to shoot someone who's in another checkpoint, if you were already firing when you were allowed to you can keep firing as long as you don't remove autofire.
*Rev. V* Posted Jan 1, 2011, 10:06 pm	That's not a bug, that's an "undocumented feature"....
*sam* Posted Jan 1, 2011, 11:38 pm	Got it, thanks Sere
Snidely Carmichael Posted Jan 1, 2011, 11:42 pm	Some of those gates are positioned ... awkwardly. In particular, gate 7 in event ID 129566. I got through it eventually, so I suppose it's not literally impassible, but it took a while, and I'm sure it wouldn't have been possible at all under fire.
*Splash* Posted Jan 3, 2011, 10:54 am	Wow, so now we have a Death Rally leauge for "carebears," and another one for "evil bastards who just want to kill everyone here." Seems to be that's...what do they call it again? Oh yeah, a "compromise." Should make everyone happy (except for those of you who insist that is for sissies, too.) But hey, I'm entered in both of them...it will be fun to see the differences, if any. Still don't think they should be called "rallys" though: in a combat, you try to kill the other guy; in a race, you try to cross the finish line first; same as in a death-race, but there you can shoot at people, too. An actual rally penalizes you for going too slow, or too fast--you are supposed to hit the checkpoints within a certain time window, and if you miss one, you're DQ. What we're doing is something different, as there are no penalties for missing a gate. But whatever it is, it's fun!
*Bastille* Posted Jan 3, 2011, 11:09 am	The yearly gumball rally or Cannonball run (like the movies made from these events) has lots of questionable activity. Bribes, short cuts, sabotage. Just gotta make the gates by nightfall I think. I can't see Evan residents sticking to any rules. Even The great Leslie stoops to such activity, and professor Fate, well.... Training new recruits in the morning so can't make the next one. Ya wanna make something of it! Uploaded with ImageShack.us
*sam* Posted Jan 3, 2011, 4:29 pm	Longo said: *sam* said: OK, we are going to have two separate circuit of Evan deathrallys each year... Circuit of Evan I:  races are Sundays, 8:00 and 21:00, EAA rules will apply Circuit of Evan II:  races are Sundays, 10:00 and 23:00, EAA rules will NOT apply The events start in February with the SS race, and then move town each week:  SS > Elms > GW > BL > TX > SF > FL > SV I'm hoping we'll get a bit of fun going with squads migrating between towns, a bit like the "F1 Circus" rolling into town..  ugh...Im off Thur, Fri, and Sat each week, and you make em Sunday....  Sorry! Sunday is the busiest day in the game, which is why I picked it.
Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 3, 2011, 4:57 pm	It conflicts with Minileagues at 16:00 server time on sundays. Can their times get bumped down to 14:00 on weekends?
*sam* Posted Jan 3, 2011, 6:22 pm	Joel Autobaun said: It conflicts with Minileagues at 16:00 server time on sundays. Can their times get bumped down to 14:00 on weekends? You mean 21:00 server time, I presume? I don't like pushing them earlier, it's not good for people like me, with kids.. 20:30-24:00 is best for us. (& it's the busiest time). How about the sunday evening minileagues are pushed 1 hour earlier, to 20:00 ?
FireFly Posted Jan 3, 2011, 6:26 pm	That sounds good
Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 3, 2011, 6:53 pm	Ok ya- 20:00 server time sounds good for those.
*sam* Posted Jan 3, 2011, 7:58 pm	actually.. there's no need is there? the only minileagues on Sundays at 21:00 or 23:00 have many events per week anyway.. unless I'm missing some? The ones I can find are Northern Paintball, Somerset Pedestrian Combat #1, and Somerset Pedestrian Combat #2
FireFly Posted Jan 3, 2011, 8:23 pm	Somerset Winter Warmup League Race Week 1 2011-01-09 21:00:00 Just an example
Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 3, 2011, 8:27 pm	Was talking more about SS Winter Warmup and Spring DR League.
*sam* Posted Jan 3, 2011, 8:29 pm	Ah yeah, gotcha.
*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Jan 4, 2011, 12:40 am	Bastiel said: Even The great Leslie stoops to such activity, and professor Fate, well.... Not sure how many of us here can remember that movie... But I DO! The Great Race Natalie Wood was a BEAUTIFUL woman!.... Her eyes made me..... melt! The "Pie Fight" in the same movie was EPIC! Pie Fight I feel like this in the morning more often than not.... (kidding youguys!) Rise and Shine! Professor Fate reminds me of 'Wile E. Coyote'.....
*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Jan 4, 2011, 1:00 am	Speaking of "Wile E. Coyote"......... This has GOT to be a "Roadrunner" cartoon on film! Made in 1979 Check this movie out..... It stars: Kirk Douglas, Ann-Margret, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Paul Lynde, Foster Brooks The Villain It may be 'old-school' but this is the funniest western I have ever seen!
Lord Foul Posted Jan 4, 2011, 1:23 am	Question: Does the engine tuner spec work in these Death rallies and death rally circuits leagues?
*Bastille* Posted Jan 4, 2011, 2:07 am	Good point O' lord JD said: I feel like this in the morning more often than not.... (kidding youguys!) Rise and Shine! "When you rise, you shine!" One of my fav parts of the flick. Jack lemons best roll IMO and yeah, Wile E. for sure. Peter falk is great in that too. Especially the Monk bit. "Donk" The Villain! haven't seen this for yonks! Good O'
*sam* Posted Jan 4, 2011, 12:09 pm	Lord Foul said: Question: Does the engine tuner spec work in these Death rallies and death rally circuits leagues? Yes, they're classified as Pro town events so engine tuner does operate
*Splash* Posted Jan 4, 2011, 1:29 pm	Dang, I just noticed, in the non-rules enforced leauge, I'm going to miss every other weekend (I work 12 hour shifts, so I'll be "clocked-in" for both events that day.) Which sucks, but I thought I'd point it out now, so it doesn't look like I'm chicken when I miss the first one...
*Bastille* Posted Jan 5, 2011, 6:16 am	Latest GW event was a great success     Point-to-point Wilderness Deathrace (event ID 130384) {Removed by the media due to copyright issues, check the Gazette} Most importantly all had heaps of fun.