*Burden* Posted Sep 3, 2012, 8:08 am	Is this possible? The idea is that if bullets hit your armor at an extreme enough angle, it'll bounce off instead of penetrating.
*Tinker* Posted Sep 3, 2012, 8:59 am	that would be great
*Bastille* Posted Sep 3, 2012, 2:00 pm	Wot! who this ... how you say... Burbon?... person
*goat starer* Posted Sep 3, 2012, 4:21 pm	i remember a guy called Burden... he was nice
*K1500* Posted Sep 3, 2012, 10:49 pm	Seems like it could require a fair bit of work within the physics engine to get it working correctly - I can think of a few issues off the top of my head. 1) What weapons are likely to cause a ricochet? A Car Rifle could, but an ATG or CC would be less likely. What about MG's? Do ALL the bullets ricochet? If not then how does this effect the damage. What about rockets (are they proximity or impact triggered)? 2) What happens to the ricochet? Can it hit other vehicles? If so how is the damage calculated? Can it ricochet again? What about loss of momentum in relation to damage? 3) Would some chassis's be more or less prone to this? Some have very square angles, some are more curved and streamlined. I don't know how this would work but understand that the chassis are not indicitave of hit locations and this sort of stuff is usually worked out by an in game hit box. 4) How would this change in game tactics? We already gun for side shots a lot. 5) Are the in game graphics (for both misses and hits) actually representative of where the shot actually went or are they just a representation of a hit and/or miss? Would ricochet's actually add anything significant to the game in relation to the work required to institute it? This is the biggest question for me - I can't see it adding that much to the game.
*Tinker* Posted Sep 4, 2012, 12:25 am	I think what Burd was saying was, that bullets loose their kinetic force over extreme ranges and become weaker
*K1500* Posted Sep 4, 2012, 2:27 am	*Tinker* said: I think what Burd was saying was, that bullets loose their kinetic force over extreme ranges  and become weaker Really I can't see that in the original post at all... *Burden* said: The idea is that if bullets hit your armor at an extreme enough angle, it'll bounce off instead of penetrating. Key phrases - "extreme enough angle" & "bounce off instead of penetrating" - this is a pretty specific description of a ricochet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricochet
FireFly Posted Sep 4, 2012, 3:51 am	That would require Darwkind to have a bullet physics system to begin with... Vehicle criticals and fails have been suggested before thou, I suppose you could fake deflections with a "Critical Miss"... Speaking of Critical Miss, I miss slacker :/
*Bastille* Posted Sep 4, 2012, 4:33 am	yeah, I think thats probably the best way to do something like this, and the reason weapon damage in RPGs is generally, (x)D(y)
*Tinker* Posted Sep 4, 2012, 8:12 am	Ah ok extreem angles, righ sorryt... Ricochets sounds really complicated, what about just less damage? easier to implement and give the same feeling?
FireFly Posted Sep 4, 2012, 10:28 am	Really, just think of it in terms of critical hits, imagine yer rolling a 100 sided die... 0 - 5 = ricochet (no dmg) 5 - 15 = bad hit (0.5x dmg) 15 - 85 = regular damage 85 - 95 = good hit (1.5x dmg) 95 - 100 = cricical hit (2x dmg or other effect) Simple, yet effective. Balance out the chance of bad with the chance of good... always need that balance. Makes sense to, when shooting a car or anything really all shots do not do the same damage depending on placement. Hell, you could shoot a ton of bullets trough the windows and out the other side, wont do much if the driver is a dwarf
*Tinker* Posted Sep 4, 2012, 10:48 pm	FireFly said: Simple, yet effective. I'd prefer if long range had something to do with it, but hey i like sims
FireFly Posted Sep 5, 2012, 9:08 am	*Tinker* said: FireFly said: Simple, yet effective. I'd prefer if long range had something to do with it, but hey i like sims That would require sam to code in even more modifiers... Keeping it simple leaves less room for error . And who doesn't like the sims? But only the earlier ones tbh, never touched the newer ones.
Lord Foul Posted Sep 6, 2012, 6:10 am	First thing that came to my mind when seeing the title was Wonder Woman jumping in front of me to deflect bullets coming my way.lol Then I read there was bouncing and penetrating. I vote yes
Djihani Posted Sep 6, 2012, 11:44 pm	I reckon Burrrd owes me a couple of Heavy flamethrowers. No way those things just "deflacted" away...
*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Sep 7, 2012, 6:17 am	K1500 said: Seems like it could require a fair bit of work within the physics engine to get it working correctly - I can think of a few issues off the top of my head. 1) What weapons are likely to cause a ricochet? A Car Rifle could, but an ATG or CC would be less likely. What about MG's? Do ALL the bullets ricochet? If not then how does this effect the damage. What about rockets (are they proximity or impact triggered)? 2) What happens to the ricochet? Can it hit other vehicles? If so how is the damage calculated? Can it ricochet again? What about loss of momentum in relation to damage? 3) Would some chassis's be more or less prone to this? Some have very square angles, some are more curved and streamlined. I don't know how this would work but understand that the chassis are not indicitave of hit locations and this sort of stuff is usually worked out by an in game hit box. 4) How would this change in game tactics? We already gun for side shots a lot. 5) Are the in game graphics (for both misses and hits) actually representative of where the shot actually went or are they just a representation of a hit and/or miss? Would ricochet's actually add anything significant to the game in relation to the work required to institute it? This is the biggest question for me - I can't see it adding that much to the game. I did alot of research into deflection and penetration factors when I was working on a Military Combat type game that I never finished...  Was meant to me basically a "Red Dawn" type game similar to Twilight 2000 and Price of Freedom but my own more realistic spin on the combat portion. Anyway it turns out deflection and Penetration are fairly simple in terms of damage and reduction of damage.  There are basicly only a few factors involved: 1) angle of incoming round as compared to the armor orientation (known as the "Angle of Obliquity") 2) the slope of the armor (for true hardcore gamers the balistics come into play here because if you have 45 degree sloped armor and you take a long range hit, odds are the incoming shell is on a downward angle and reduces the effectiveness of the slop at deflecting a round) 3) Penetration capability of the round.  (for small arms such as 14.5mm Kpv, 12.7mm DshK or M2HB, 7.62mm MMG, and smaller weapons with non-explosive shells, the penetration capability is figured with a very close aproximation with the following formula: Penetration(in mm RHA) = calibur-of-round(in mm) times muzzel Velocity devided by 500) then all you need to do is take a look at the angle of strike.  a shot coming in at a 10 degree angle of obliquity, perfectly horizontal balisticly, striking armor sloped at 20 degree from vertical has a reduction of impact damage of 30% (10AoO + 20s = 30)  thus an M2HB .50cal HMG (12.7mm) with a penetration capability of 30mm RHA stikes with a penetrating force of 21mm. For internal damage, if above shell were striking a French Panhard on it's 12mm facing, 9mm penetrating force would enter the crew cabin (then converting into Personelle damage which is a factor of times 10 and determined with dice in another complex process, suffice to say 9mm pen will kill ppl and break stuff) Deflection on the other hand is another formula which is one of those exponential equasions.  The less penetrative force left, the greater the chance of deflection but even deflection still degrades armor integrity and weakens is. Thus the "Half Damage or Quarter Damage" anti-Crit as a generalization of the mechanics of it.
Jeelz Posted Sep 7, 2012, 11:59 am	Lord Foul said: First thing that came to my mind when seeing the title was Wonder Woman jumping in front of me to deflect bullets coming my way.lol Then I read there was bouncing and penetrating. I vote yes  Still chuckling