Manfred VonRichthofen Posted Apr 25, 2020, 2:36 pm	League Race championship. It says each week you will have an average points of all races you made this week. As the max points for the winner is 20, the maximum average points should 20, like if you win all your races. But there is peoples with an average this week of 30+ points.. Can someone explain me how it works then please? Many thanks !
Tez Posted Apr 25, 2020, 3:14 pm	Some leagues allow a DW subscriber bonus if they participate. So if X number of premium players enter an event the points and cash rewards go up
*Dark Tempest* Posted Apr 25, 2020, 3:28 pm	The optimal situation for points is to win 1 race with lots of subscribers in it due to the point bonus. Racing in more than 1 is only a benefit if you do poorly in your first race and need to move your average up.
*sam* Posted Apr 25, 2020, 3:30 pm	The bonuses were added to encourage multiplayer events. Prior to this, players were effectively being encouraged to avoid events with other players (since it's much harder to win them).
Dropdeadfred Posted Apr 26, 2020, 4:27 am	Which turns the leagues into a small crapshoot, since you can't compete unless you get into these big multiplayer events. It's less about if you're any good and more about if you're online at the same time, and good
Manfred VonRichthofen Posted Apr 26, 2020, 10:29 am	Thank you, that makes sense, and there is no information about this point bosst system on the league page. I didn't know about the rules, ended up with 16 races last week lol, 9 average points, but not sure I ever had a race with another player Cheers
*Bastille* Posted Apr 27, 2020, 12:45 am	Yes, you will need to build a group of players to take the fall for you, join and lose. Like the 'big boys' do.
*Maxxed* Posted May 3, 2020, 4:06 am	*sam* said: The bonuses were added to encourage multiplayer events. Prior to this, players were effectively being encouraged to avoid events with other players (since it's much harder to win them). This has been shockingly gamed. Players syndicate and collaborate to win leagues. "OK so ill help you win x league if you help me win y league" For cultural reasons the default position in town events is a truce between players. To shoot another PC will quickly make you a pariah at best and accused of griefing at worst. With a larger player base this would not be such an issue as multiple syndicates would form and it could lead to some awesome competitive and collaborative events. When I was active in leagues I would beg players to join events as getting 20 points in every event gives you no opp to win the shiny things on offer. If you have no skin in the league then it is no issue to throw a race/combat to help out a mate. Interestingly enough this attitude is encouraged via the DR Mafia narrative mission. Perhaps this has benefits in encouraging players to socially interact and can be justified in RP as players forming their own DR Mafias. The permadeath aspect of this game makes many players very wary of any form of genuine PvP. Perhaps a solution would be to have some kind of *Stig* account where players take turns to be the bad guy using gangers from an NPC pool with strict rules about not griefing and the focus for the *Stig* being to take out player run contestants.
*sam* Posted May 3, 2020, 7:10 am	*Maxxed* said: For cultural reasons the default position in town events is a truce between players. To shoot another PC will quickly make you a pariah at best and accused of griefing at worst. This is something I strongly dislike. Would it help if I put a notice into the event chat, saying that this is a deathrace/combat and you should expect other players to shoot at you, and that this is not considered griefing?
*sam* Posted May 3, 2020, 7:12 am	*Maxxed* said: Perhaps a solution would be to have some kind of *Stig* account where players take turns to be the bad guy using gangers from an NPC pool with strict rules about not griefing and the focus for the *Stig* being to take out player run contestants. This was actually an idea I had way back when starting to make Darkwind, but I think it's not a good idea because it's too unpredictable whether there will be anyone available to control the NPCs, and therefore it will be seen as victimization of the player when they're the ones that get hit by it.
Valiance Posted May 3, 2020, 9:58 am	It's a tricky balance, Sam. I usually withdraw from a deathrace or combat if I see another playing. - When I play chess or Hearthstone, the stakes can be high (progression towards a rank, a tournament), but there is no danger to my ability to play chess or Hearthstone again in the future. - I've been back for a month. I've just about got my crew to where they can fight the way they used to. I don't want to jeopardise. - You may say it's not griefing, but I was in the only CoE I've ever participated in and one player got the impression I was running with a particular group. (It's fair enough, I was trying not to get shot by them). They told me I was now on their "PvP target list". As a result, I haven't joined an group scout since, since I don't want to PvP. (Not upset with the threatening player - they were extremely reasonable. I actually think their threat was reasonable in the circumstances. I just don't want the PvP.) So if you want more PvP, make it so players don't lose the single most imprtant resource in the game. But you don't want to do that (and I understand), so I think it will be very hard to stop players from being social together and making their own rules. (i.e. trucing)
*Maxxed* Posted May 3, 2020, 12:50 pm	*sam* said: *Maxxed* said: Perhaps a solution would be to have some kind of *Stig* account.... This was actually an idea I had way back when starting to make Darkwind, but I think it's not a good idea because it's too unpredictable whether there will be anyone available to control the NPCs, and therefore it will be seen as victimization of the player when they're the ones that get hit by it. I think the unpredictability would actually be beneficial...that said if the Stig account was open to a group of players (Marshalls?/Gurus?) then I'm sure that you could all but guarantee that someone would fill the spot...who would miss the opp to shoot at PCs without them having a whinge?  If it only applies to League events I think it is a fair risk to take given the shiny stuff on offer and knowing that the Stig wont shoot after resignation etc. Slightly off topic but ive been doing a few deathraces recently...it occurred to me that if the NPCs fielded 2 vehicles per event one could lag back and 'protect' their team mate (mimicking the PC behaviour) and making DRs less of a turkey-shoot.
*Maxxed* Posted May 3, 2020, 1:01 pm	Valiance said: It's a tricky balance, Sam. I usually withdraw from a deathrace or combat if I see another playing. {TLDR..something something groupscouts}....since I don't want to PvP. If you turn your PvP flag off you cannot be targeted in the wilderness...when joining a scout you can see if they have their flag on or off. If you turn yours off and another player says "hey wanna scout" you can safely say "sure but join my squad. I dont wanna get ganked in PvP" As for town events if a PC shoots on you once you are resigned that is griefing...let the gameworld know and players will be happy to make them pay for their crimes against toons...
*goat starer* Posted May 3, 2020, 11:07 pm	Valiance said: It's a tricky balance, Sam. I usually withdraw from a deathrace or combat if I see another playing. - When I play chess or Hearthstone, the stakes can be high (progression towards a rank, a tournament), but there is no danger to my ability to play chess or Hearthstone again in the future. - I've been back for a month. I've just about got my crew to where they can fight the way they used to. I don't want to jeopardise. - You may say it's not griefing, but I was in the only CoE I've ever participated in and one player got the impression I was running with a particular group. (It's fair enough, I was trying not to get shot by them). They told me I was now on their "PvP target list". As a result, I haven't joined an group scout since, since I don't want to PvP. (Not upset with the threatening player - they were extremely reasonable. I actually think their threat was reasonable in the circumstances. I just don't want the PvP.) So if you want more PvP, make it so players don't lose the single most imprtant resource in the game. But you don't want to do that (and I understand), so I think it will be very hard to stop players from being social together and making their own rules. (i.e. trucing) Role play the death val. it’s just 0s and 1s
*Longo* Posted May 4, 2020, 2:41 am	*Maxxed* said: Valiance said: It's a tricky balance, Sam. I usually withdraw from a deathrace or combat if I see another playing. {TLDR..something something groupscouts}....since I don't want to PvP. If you turn your PvP flag off you cannot be targeted in the wilderness...when joining a scout you can see if they have their flag on or off. If you turn yours off and another player says "hey wanna scout" you can safely say "sure but join my squad. I dont wanna get ganked in PvP" As for town events if a PC shoots on you once you are resigned that is griefing...let the gameworld know and players will be happy to make them pay for their crimes against toons... This is untrue. Join a squad where the owner has his flag on, and you are now pvp for that event.
Hati Posted May 4, 2020, 4:05 am	Lingo is right. If you join a group scout you're PvP flag is on.
Valiance Posted May 4, 2020, 9:00 am	I'm pretty sure Maxxed is right. He says (and I paraphrase): Don't join squads which have their PvP flag on. If you notice that they are PvP, and you still want to scout with them, ask them to join your squad, rather than joining theirs. That seems correct, doesn't it? And you can still group scout without PvP on this way.
Hati Posted May 4, 2020, 6:04 pm	Why the concern? Other than randomly getting intercepted why are you worried about PvP? I mean Darth exists but he's a proper pirate and attacks everyone
Zazul Posted May 4, 2020, 6:09 pm	even if someone else with pvp on joins your non pvp squad it still turns it into one, you have to kick the pvper or ask them to turn it off
Valiance Posted May 4, 2020, 9:11 pm	Because, in the end, I don't play this game to fight other people. Or to kill their gangers (intentionally or otherwise), or to undo their months or years of grind. And the same for my gangers. Which is not Sam's original intention. I get that. So I go about my business playing solo. I guess the only reason I raise it in this thread is because we keep trying to add more PvP, and only a handful of people use it. I wonder if it's as popular as we think.
Valiance Posted May 4, 2020, 9:13 pm	And to goat, they may be only by 1s and 0s, but they are MY 1s and 0s, and they took a bloody long time. Especially as my general play pattern is "play heavily for 2-3 months, get a bunch of gangers who are vaguely useful, then leave for a couple of years, come back and everyone is dead so I have to start again. I don't have a stable of also rans. I have a bunch of old dead gangers and a bunch of novices.
*sam* Posted May 5, 2020, 10:24 am	Valiance said: I guess the only reason I raise it in this thread is because we keep trying to add more PvP, and only a handful of people use it. I wonder if it's as popular as we think. I'm not sure if you've seen the details of the camp wars work I've been doing, but there's a number of aspects to the design which are specifically trying to make PvP less dangerous, therefore hopefully encouraging more people to partocipate. Most notably: - the availability of mercenaries to hire into your gang for just one combat - the ability to immediately escape any character from these battles, whether inside a vehicle or on foot.
*goat starer* Posted May 5, 2020, 10:59 am	Valiance said: And to goat, they may be only by 1s and 0s, but they are MY 1s and 0s, and they took a bloody long time. I can't imagine how pissed off you were the first time you sat through Hamlet.
*sam* Posted May 5, 2020, 11:41 am	*goat starer* said: Valiance said: And to goat, they may be only by 1s and 0s, but they are MY 1s and 0s, and they took a bloody long time. I can't imagine how pissed off you were the first time you sat through Hamlet. PvP is the thief of time.
Valiance Posted May 5, 2020, 9:25 pm	Actually F2P is the thief of time, but that's a whole 'nother topic :-)