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Smooch Posted Aug 9, 2021, 7:45 pm |
It was fun and i had fun. But the game needs SERIOUS work.
Step one would be to stop letting cheaters cheat, and stop letting the inmates run the asylum. It was fun for a while, but I will do other things now. Later! |
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Smooch Posted Aug 9, 2021, 7:52 pm |
You all talk about new players getting chased off. I am that new player, and I just got chased off by the toxicity of this community. It was a long build up, but it is true that a small and vocal group run the show and their goal seems to to burn down the game and rule the ashes.
Sam even said that these power players don’t buy chrome because they don’t have to. So non paying customers are pushing paying customers out the door. Not a good business plan. Good luck to you sir! |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 9, 2021, 8:38 pm |
Its kind of like in Fortnite when you jump out of the bus, and before you even land, a guy shoots you out of the sky. I suggested to the developers that they should make my controls faster than theirs, due to my age and deteriorating reaction time, but they didnt listen to me. That would be leveling the playing field for me anyways.
So to adjust, I try and fight mid to long range, where I can use some strategy and take away necessary reaction times. Ive never won a solo event, but am a good team player and have won many squads, mostly with people Ive never played with before. Its fun, but occasionally some people ruin my fun, and I log off for a while. See you after your rage temp lowers a bit. Enjoy the rest of your summer. -Longo |
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darthspanky Posted Aug 9, 2021, 9:30 pm |
at least yer smart enouph to get out now, ive been here for close to 14 years and thats 13 years way to long. you were fun to play with and your enthusiasm for the game was fun to watch, you did a great job imo, learned fast, take care. | ||||
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Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:29 am |
Is this that long play (to take us down) you said you put into effect in the lobby yesterday? | ||||
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Zazul Posted Aug 10, 2021, 5:02 am |
I love this game so much I don't think ill ever quit, and i wouldn't describe myself as a veteran or a beginner, but i do think there's more that could be done for new players. I understand both perspectives as I was really frustrated when i started, and now that I've put in the hours and grinds I don't like the idea of handing the early game to a new guy because I did the painful grind and they wouldn't have to. However when you think about it that's kind of a cruel thing to put on someone new: "I got my ass beat to get here and so should you" doesn't work nowadays when there are so many other good games out there to play. If we want new players to stick around and for the community to grow the current system will never deliver. So my suggestion to keep the 5k+ hour players happy and encourage more new guys to join would be to give a "beginner" status to gangs with less than a certain total ganger skill (not going to do the math at the moment for a solid number). The "beginner" status could give small perks to help grow faster with less resistance like free rental cars that you could customize to find your playstyle, faster skillgains, no weekly fees, and guaranteed NR on scouts in the north triangle. However, there would also be restrictions such as no entry in certain league events like CoE and maybe no pvp or camp memberships until they hit that beginner total skill cap. Having more robust content being a goal to work towards and have a more pleasing experience in the first few weeks would keep more players for longer and once the harsh reality of the game hits them, they would already be hooked. Please bear in mind these are off the top of the head ideas to keep everyone happy and make Sam some more money to make DW2!
If we keep the game as it is that would also be fine to me, and I'm sure the other 5 or 10 people in the world who play this on a daily basis with a smile would also be OK with it. But if we actually want new players we need to accept the fact that the majority of people don't want to feel utterly dominated and have to climb that steep learning curve right out of the gate. Sam has done an amazing job with DW imo and the recent addition of solo missions and more training for groups to encourage veterans to lead more scouts are steps in the right direction, but were not quite there yet. Oh and if anyone ever compares DW to Fortnite again I,m going to get a lobotomy LOL! |
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*Joskney* Posted Aug 10, 2021, 6:00 am |
OOH the chance to Lobotomize Zazul!!! Sorry Zazul, remember me in your will.
@Longo, I understand WHAT you are trying to say about Fortnite, but it is a bit a flawed arguement. Everyone jumping out of that bus has the same gear and it falls into skill and play style, every match. -my take, not aimed at anyone. DW for new players is more akin the top players jumping out of the bus have the best Golden Weapons and gear and full shield potions etc, aim assist bots, while the new players only have bottom tier gear and can only work up to top stuff if they can join or beat a Golden player. And if they lose a match, they lose any golden weapons they may have gained. I have alot of stuff compared to new players. Around 17 buzzers as an example. But using Longo as a giant above me, he has more Ambi's than I have Buzzers and he has 4 times the buzzers I have. Losing a Buzzer for me would suck, Longo he would probably be pissed at that gang that killed it, and a newbie may never play again. AS someone who has worked up to MY level over 8+ years, I understand how it got this way. It is easy to forget how hard it was to buy RE tires or a can of fuel. Giving newbies good gear would only cause a bit of power creep. BUT conversely, think of the simple math skills to actually have a ganger that could race toe to toe with the top? How many game years would it take to get them to that level? How rewarding would it be to have their guys die repeatedly? It is why I have NEVER joined camp wars... there is not a God Damned thing on that map that is worth something to my camp, to deal with the petty PVP antics that happens all around from all sides. It is an unbalanced system in my opinion and had great potential at one time. I am a heavy PVP gamer, some of my most recent ones I am good (Apex/ Fortnite/ Northgard) others (DOTA2/ Rocket League) I get my butt beat. PvP here holds no interest to me at all, in general because of the player base... edit: In alot of other PvP games, top players cannot even compete with new players. |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 10, 2021, 8:02 am |
Damn, a guy isn’t allowed to be sarcastic sometimes… my main point being my silly request in that game was asking for something that would just benefit me in order to gain on my opponents, a lot Like some of the suggestions people have made here in the past. You guys think that DW is going to bring in a ton of players….. it’s not…. One it’s going on 15 years old. How many games have you played for 15 years or how many MMOs do you still play that are 15 years olds? Two, not everyone is looking for turn based or car wars. Mostly middle aged people who played pen and paper car wars. Smooch was the exception being a you g dude, but his dad did play… |
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Iron Wraith Posted Aug 10, 2021, 9:27 am |
Bit of a circular argument there Longo.
We do get new players (so it's not all 50 year olds), we just don't tend to keep them because progression is vary hard (not play skill, but ganger skill). So the players who have stuck around generally have decent gangers, the players who cannot get that magic 50 skill level and the sense of progression stop playing as it's too much like a job. If you have a player community that is really only 10 strong you really are harkening back to the days when we played wargames in a scout hut. But nothing I have ever said has made a blind bit of difference, so I'll get my coat. |
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Dropdeadfred Posted Aug 10, 2021, 9:55 am |
If you really think that it's only 50+ year olds, or even 40+ year olds, that have become new players and enjoyed the game, you'd be very, very mistaken.
Turn based strategy games are HUGE. Look at Civ. Homeworld is around the corner. New World. X-Com and its franchise. Mordheim and Necromunda. The Siralim series (Single developer here). The list goes on and on and on. A couple of those are very niche games that some of you probably haven't heard of. ALL of them have a player-base that's astronomically bigger than this. The game can be blamed, to a point. It's dated, the UI is something to be desired, etc etc...it's all been said though. Even with all that, older games can do just fine. Skyrim is pushing 10 yrs old. How old is WoW? Hell, the classic Ultima series, and Ultima Online, still has players and that's WAY before DW's time. If you really don't think Grimm and his antics in the lobby, along with the constant d***-waving from others, on top of the now blatant cheating that is barely punished, with finally the 'You can get good too, just spend a few years playing this like me' attitude isn't pushing away players...I don't know what to tell you. |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:08 pm |
Dude - I’m a marshal and I have no tolerance for cheating. So I don’t know where you are coming from here. I often get accused of cheating however. When I ask why the person said that, they say you are good you have to cheat. This is the second time you have implied that I am OK with cheating. So I will tell you again, I’m against it. Sam is my witness, and Xman and some other marshals can attest to this. And FWIW, THIS turned based game is predominately Middle Aged men. I know most of them and try and get to know the players in this game and have met numerous ones in person. |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:10 pm |
Bit of a circular argument there Iron, go look at Smooch’s 6 month old gang and come back and talk to me. Actually, I am done. |
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*Awefense* Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:17 pm |
If it all comes down to ganger skills, why not just bump up skill gains for everything by a factor of four?
New folks can see the progression much faster. Their gangers will be competitive much faster. The gear will follow. This would help everybody out. Maybe some of the 'elite' players would be upset by that, but who cares? This change would not hurt any other factors. The 'elites' would still have their camps and their mountains of gear. I'll be honest, I haven't felt like grinding out a new gang. I've just been dabbling for the past 4 or 5 years. I have always hated the uber slow progression, it's just not fun! Thoughts? |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:45 pm |
Right before your most recent return, Sammdid increase skill gains, if you scout with others. The more gangs in the scout, the more gains |
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*Ninesticks* Posted Aug 10, 2021, 6:48 pm |
Games have changed in line with the players changing. This is nothing new but has to be accepted. When BTech was being designed they wanted a battle to be over in a certain time as they were very much aware that long battles are not really in sync with what most gamers want.
In fact, BTech was 'dumbed down' quite a bit to ensure greater market appeal. Thank goodness they deliberately made it mod friendly. DW while still alive has had its day, it is still good fun doing PvE (and PvP) either solo or more so with friends but has too much wrong with it to fix - and very little reason to to be fair. |
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Iron Wraith Posted Aug 10, 2021, 9:31 pm |
[quote=*Longo*][quote=Iron Wraith]<Snip>
[/quote] Bit of a circular argument there Iron, go look at Smooch’s 6 month old gang and come back and talk to me. Actually, I am done. [/quote] So Smooch has made progress in 6 months. I don't know how he did it, he may have sucked up to the Lords of Evan and rode their coat tails on joint scouts, he may have spent every hour of the day playing in the last 6 months, he may be massively talented. It is probably a mix. Smooch is still leaving. There have been thousands of players who have already left without approaching his level of success. Just check out the list of gangs that have existed and have been abandoned. The game is feudal. Not everyone wan't to be a vassal. |
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Dropdeadfred Posted Aug 10, 2021, 10:42 pm |
Not sure why you got defensive here, when I didn't mention your name, imply you nor have you on my mind when I typed that up. |
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Dropdeadfred Posted Aug 10, 2021, 10:48 pm |
Nobody wants to be a vassal in a computer game. Watching the 'death' of any game that has that idea in mind will show that. Atlas tried it. Albion had it, then abandoned it. Asheron's Call blatantly had it. I tried to bring this up when Camp Wars was first discussed when they were discussing the role of new players in the system. Largely ignored, which is what new players, and now vet players, have done with the system in turn. Either way, I agree with you. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 11, 2021, 12:07 am |
Who is holding who as a vassal? LMAO like how is that even possible here, you are free to do whatever the HELL you want in the game including VOLUNTARILY JOINING A PVP EVENT.
I cannot bribe someone to race for me, offering to help them get 1st place! (And cars and money and even BLOODY CAMPS!). That's NOT Vassalage! They'd rather DIE refusing to RESIGN to me! What the HELL do you guys talk about in those group scouts? Bring it. I love the hate. Even the delusional, misguided slanderous ridiculous hate, I will drink it all up! Lets have the REAL Darkwind PvP: the FORUM WAR. Favorite of the carebear. Nothing like a whiny ass "waaa taking my ball and going home" post to kick things off! I Guess i'm able to cause consternation and Grief, hardly even playing even. It's too easy to defeat such complete and pathetic wimps! I can literally just about do nothing but log into 3-4 PvP events a week. SAD state of affairs in a FAKE world! Name some names and give the details(talking to the people making cheating and ruining the game claims here). Lets have it out in the open, we are all supposed to guess at the heinous deplorable crimes. Arcane accusations will get you nowhere. I named and gave specific details about the CHEATER I brought to light. Don't be a coward. |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 11, 2021, 12:25 am |
It’s ironic that Iron and Fred have had alot of comments lately in the forums. I looked and neither are subbed and neither have played ANY events in the past 30 days. But they have a ton of input on what’s been going on in the game. Let’s listen to them. | ||||
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*Joskney* Posted Aug 11, 2021, 1:26 am |
+1 |
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Groovelle Posted Aug 11, 2021, 2:06 am |
Your attention for two seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz1J9PUcMQ0&t=6s Thank you. Dark-Wind is structurally perfect. It has great bones, and when you're 80 feet in the air watching your tiny car get roasted by a flamethrower and flipped by rockets, it actually looks great - so most of the time. The reason Dark-Wind doesn't have players? Go to a computer that hasn't ever played Dark-Wind (so the algorithm doesn't feed you it off the bat) and try to find it without using the phrase 'car wars online' or, for extra credit, without 'turn based car combat game' too. Before the steam launch, "Darkwind" by itself would bring up a MUD before Dark-Wind.com. We're hard to find. Most things with online are webpage games, anything with apocalypse is GTA or CrossOut. 'Car apocalypse online' - returns GTA; 'suped up cars fighting' - not there; 'build a car and fight it' -RoboCraft, Crossout. How can people say we're niche when only people with the right syntax can find us? |
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*Joskney* Posted Aug 11, 2021, 2:23 am |
Listen to you all prattling on like old hens over old pain, hatred and things that even "I" wasn't around for. As for new players that were not old CW players, I know of around a dozen of my kids + friends (girls and boys) that played here and were chased off by the lobby, the politics, the grind, the sexism etc. AND not just by one bad group or another... it is passive aggressive version of toxic and unfriendly. WE are the crazies in the back of the game store mumbling to ourselves. You all sound like a bunch of old die hard WYSIWYG Warhammer players not letting a proxie unit for a new player to try out. SO the main question is exactly this, if the server went to the racetrack in the sky and had to be reset.... would you GRIND it out like a newbie? Would this game be for you without what you have already? Would you rebuild the farm after the tornado? DW2 looks like it is approaching and then everyone will get to play alone or with the few they invite. ANY sense of community will be gone. |
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Dropdeadfred Posted Aug 11, 2021, 6:25 am |
Is it though? How many times have I subbed in the past, hmm? Can you track that? How many times have I subbed for a full year, hmm? Can you track that? How many times have I purchased Chrome? Can you track that? Can you track how many other players I've brought into the game that have also subbed, with more than one of them subbing for a year? Or how many times those people have purchased Chrome? I didn't realize that having some kind of input was gatekept by currently spending $$. Oh wait, it isn't. |
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1iTim Posted Aug 11, 2021, 6:49 am |
Hi all, just a few thoughts from the past year i've been playing, positives and negatives.
Early on i had great help from vets, and formed actual friendships. they were the reason i've subscribed. However, after completing the TAC missions, i played a few races and scouted. and died. so i hired more gangas and played on, cause, you know, cars with guns! then i scouted with others, and felt useless because my gangers could not hit anything, and could not stay with the vets as my gangers couldnt hit things. Now my gang is more mature, with quite a few now capped, and can play a variety of styles. I was even helped to win a laser in a league, just by other players joining in - nice one. One balance issue is that early on i would get returns that were usually devastating, but now when i can cope with them i dont get them so often (not at all in ss). So a suggestion of no returns for non-vets in ss would be great. more TAC solo missions would be beneficial too - surely those would not be too hard to set up. With less time to play now (life and all that) i'm now struggling to do enough scouts to keep morale up. I have a few more months in the sub i last bought but am pulling back north and wont be renewing the subscription as i just don't see the value in it. I'll still have some fun scouting with u guys from time to time. |
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*The X Man* Posted Aug 11, 2021, 7:46 am |
The main value in subscribing, especially for new players, is weekly training for all characters (a must to help grow your guys), unlimited vehicles (a must to keep your garages full and items to sell to pay for your weekly upkeeps), the ability to travel anywhere outside the northern triangle (a must to gain better training in towns and better loot from scouting). Bonus, the chrome your receive for your sub. That comes in handy for lots of things. | ||||
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Iron Wraith Posted Aug 11, 2021, 7:55 am |
Longo:
Like many people I love the game. However it (and the community) frequently pisses me off and I lay off for a while. Like an abusive relationship, after a few months I remember only the good things (and the time I have invested in it) and miss it and come back again until the next time. It doesn't mean I haven't played it to death in those periods when I have been subbed, or that I don't know how the community works, or not have a valid opinion on the structural and economic dynamic. I have a job and a family. I can't dedicate several hours to one activity at a time at someone else's convenience. I also can't be bothered playing games with (or against) people I don't like. When I was last subbed there were few players in my time zone that I liked enough to spend an hour scouting with. I sent time with some players who I didn't recognise. It took about five times longer to scout that when I solo so I only got one scout in per evening, I enjoyed it, but overall I made a loss on the venture, and progression was not as efficient as soloing. I few of those new players lasted a month, and with the exception of Tusken Raiders I don't see them on the forums (and now I see they are pulling back). Frankly I was disappointed the DW never went the single player route. It would suit my play far better, but I take what I can get. |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 11, 2021, 2:35 pm |
Great response, totally get this! |
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*Rev. V* Posted Aug 12, 2021, 3:04 am |
As a marshal, I'd very much like to thank everyone for keeping this civil.
Seriously. Thank you. |
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1iTim Posted Aug 14, 2021, 1:54 am |
OK i just saw the early video of DW V2.
maybe i'd pay for that... |