Questions a nOOb might ask.
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Asmoday Rex Posted Sep 29, 2009, 9:20 pm |
How do you play?
I know I have this figured out, but the learning curve is quit steep. Fortunately I'm a fan of Car Wars and table top role playing games, so I feel that has given me a head start. So we definitely need more documentation for that in the Wiki and perhaps it could all be compiled in a down-loadable guide. I think new users would stick around more if it were easier to grasp. What are the character skills really? I know the Wiki has a small writeup about this, but it can use a little work. Mainly, I figure it is based on a d100 system of some sort, and of course I do understand that many of them are not yet used in the system. But it would be nice to know a little more about them (I gather that it is a sort of Car Wars/Autoduel/GURPS like system, but I'm fortunate to own those games and can guess this). When you are in an arena combat (supposedly also a noob and non-subscriber), how can you tell your team from the other team before wasting time and aiming at them? That's a good question! Any takers? And by the way, *Sam*, can you make it so that it is more clearly notified when you are aiming at a team mate? In other words, how about a nice bubble above either your car or the target that says what it says in the chat window above that I don't always have time to pay attention to? Other topics that might be worth discussing are: When's a good time to leave Somerset? How should you go about developing a camp or growing your gang? I might come up with more. I hope this forum takes off! ~ Asmoday Rex Your true resident evil. >;-) |
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darthspanky Posted Sep 29, 2009, 9:42 pm |
i can teach ya how to play just put all yer cars and gangers in a squad make sure yer a member of a camp thats at war and i can meet you in the feild teach you all you need to know about combat.
signed a truly evil player 
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*viKKing* Posted Sep 29, 2009, 10:04 pm |
If I clearly understand the question, texts above vehicles are in a different color depending of your team (ie. red team, blue team). This is also true for wilderness events. |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Sep 29, 2009, 10:07 pm |
Here are some answers based on my experience. Not sure if you are looking for answers yourself or just looking to get a thread started.
As far as the skills, the only definitive thing is the higher the better. Don’t try and figure these out in detail as there is some "behind the scenes” code that no one really understands 
In arena combat one team is red text (over cars) and the other is blue. Don't aim at cars that are the same color as you. Start by doing races until you get a good feel for car movement. Then progress to death races. For DR, best to start with front firing weapons only and stay to the back of the pack and just try to finish the race, don't worry about winning. Surviving is a win, plus your gangers will gain skills. After DR progress to arena combats. This is sort of like scouting, but not quite. When you are comfortable with arena combat ask a Vet to take you on a scout with them. Rent a car from Jakes to take out. My recommendation is the Antagonist so you can take 2 gangers. This way you can bring back a loot car plus your rental, or even 2 loot cars and lose your deposit on the rental. As to when to leave SS, I would start by doing some travels to Elm and Gateway. Just travel there and back to SS. Best to take a fast car with little to no weapons to keep your CR (combat rating) low or a pickup (some may disagree about the PU). If you have an encounter, you will probably need to go off-road to get away. Once you are VERY VERY VERY comfortable with scouting, you can try solo scouting, but make sure you know what is going on as this can be a quick way to get your guys wasted. As far as solos scouting, that is a whole thread on its own as to what to use. I started with one Mercenary with a HMG and GG and a driver plus one gunner and would run from pirates until there was only one of them left, then turn an engage. Then I moved up to two and three car scouts. You cannot just build a camp (plus you won’t be able to afford one for a while) but once you have some cash, I recommend making sure your gangers are in Training School to help their skills grow a little faster. Hope these answer some of your questions or at least gets the thread started. Welcome to the game! 55555 |
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Asmoday Rex Posted Sep 29, 2009, 10:15 pm |
Thanks for answering guys. The main thing was about recognizing team members. Thanks. Now I feel silly for not noticing although of course it would have been nice to know before ever stepping in.
*cleans bottom of shoes As far as the other answers - great! I knew a little bit about that already - the scouting thing and the solo thing - from the wiki, but you presented it very nicely and it seemed to make more sense. Camps are a whole different story and I just thought maybe there might be others (now and in the future) who would hope for more digestible information about these and all other topics. I like this idea of a Newbie Forum, because as every good technical writer knows - you have to assume that the audience knows nothing about your subject. |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Sep 29, 2009, 10:25 pm |
You can join camps by requesting membership. You can see what camps there are by clicking "Places" and then "All Camps (Map)". Some require a certain level Mechanic to be full member and some don't. Full Members can read messages and be able to purchase items the camps produce, Associate members cannot.
You can use travels to camps to deliver goods the camps need. Plus this will also help build your Scouting skill. And another thing I forgot about solos scouting. I didn't start this until a had my first Level 50 scout, so I had Negotiator Level 1 skill. Not sure that this in necessary, but can't hurt. |
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4saken Posted Sep 30, 2009, 12:44 am |
If you're new it's best not to solo scout at all. People do things with other more experienced players and try to emulate that and it doesn't always work. For one, the people you are with have a much firmer grasp of the game as players, and secondly they likely have better skilled characters. There's plenty of other reasons, too.
One of the most important things to determine if you are ready to try solo is the ability to know when you are in danger and act accordingly. To do this you have to know the capabilities of your cars (their handling, how far away you can reliably hit with their weapons, etc) and of your enemies. This can really only come with experience. Also different tactics work better for some people than others, and of course vehicles and crew skill and specialties makes a huge difference. In short, there's alot to consider. |
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*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Sep 30, 2009, 3:15 am |
yeah. what 4saken said....... EVERY BIT OF IT!
RUN when you have to..... FIGHT when you can! Don't be afraid to run away..... Your gang members will thank you! |
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Karz Master Posted Sep 30, 2009, 11:25 am |
Hey LD, see you on the racetracks again soon
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Fealty Lost Posted Sep 30, 2009, 5:07 pm |
Asm'...just in case, when you're in an event/scout/whatever, use the F2 and F3 buttons to change the heading(s) over each car. You can add/hide Vehicle names, driver/gunner names, distance to target, speed...etc., just play with it.
...real men never run away. Stay in it till the end, whatever it may be. That way, your guys can get hand gunner skill and see how well they stand up to a little radiation. In Death Races, stay to the back, watch who's getting damaged...then slam those who are...wait till they resign, then pull over, dump out your gunner and have him ped-weapon the occupants to death. You can identify the really high-skilled ones in the registration screen by clicking on their names. More hand gunner skill! Anytime you're in a Death Race with Darthspanky...make sure you have some sort of flame weapon...wait till he's resigned...then light him up on the way by, screaming "It's a Death Race, bitch! Burn!" ...that should get you started. |
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The Paranoid Tourist Posted Sep 30, 2009, 5:24 pm |
/me highly recommends ignoring the majority of Damon's post. . . . primarily anything after the first paragraph. | ||||
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darthspanky Posted Sep 30, 2009, 5:24 pm |
damon said
...real men never run away. but some do when yer in a pvp combat with em even tho there name is damon but at least hes not afraid to pvp, tho it did take me double dog daring him to get him in that fight 
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Fealty Lost Posted Sep 30, 2009, 6:05 pm |
It was a double-dog dare...how do you walk away from that?
Also, Asm, never underestimate the tactical advantage of druggie gangers you are thinking about killing off...: When scouting, dumping one of these waste products off in the middle of combat with a ped weapon, then have him run around in the open firing. If you can get him on the side of a hill/top of a hill, even better! The AI freaks out over people shooting down onto their thin-armor tops! This WILL draw enemy fire LIKE MAD!!! ...this will give you 'free' shots against enemy that are firing at the worthless druggie ganger...so before deleting a 'bad' ganger in favor of recruiting another, remember this great tactic. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Sep 30, 2009, 6:19 pm |
Concerning ' dumping gunners ' its a ploy BUT you will find out the ganger is GOD treat them with respect and love, nurture them as if they were your children, the benefits of having a high end gunner out weighs any in game vehicle or weapon ownage, they are worth MORE than any seven figure number in your bank account ... your gang members are the most important commodity in the game .... drug and alcohol abuse can be rehabilitated in Elmsfield at the hospital. I myself have never put a member in the hospital, reports of its effectiveness and length of ' cure time ' go either way ) just check through forum for comments ) | ||||
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*General Mayhem* Posted Sep 30, 2009, 8:05 pm |
Suggest watching replays of some of the vet players, you will see that even they get into the "brown and sticky stuff" now and again. Over time you will probably have a playing "style" that suits you...car fitouts, favourite chassis etc.
One thing I have learnt..if you think you need to run....then you DO need to run! |
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Asmoday Rex Posted Sep 30, 2009, 9:27 pm |
We've really gotten off topic here. The thing newbies need to know more than any thing if you are going to get them to stick around is the game mechanics.
Strategies are nice - but I warn you, it is most likely the learning curve to the game's system that is where most questions will arise. |
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darthspanky Posted Sep 30, 2009, 9:45 pm |
most of us learned the hard way after we lost guys as a newer player, but scouting with others will teach ya some of the basics when yer out there solo, running and just learning terrain yav can learn from that. imo it was learning when to fight and when to run. | ||||
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Asmoday Rex Posted Sep 30, 2009, 11:12 pm |
Personally I think you're missing the point. These tactics of yours of course make sense - but have nothing to do with convincing people that they should subscribe. As I understand the purpose of this forum, it is intended to help many understand how it all works (not what to do once you figure that out). Trust me - the documentation available is lacking. I'm no example for you to look at. I have figured out how the system works and what the game is about. The reason I'm not an example of a typical nOOb, and why I did subscribe, is that I have a head start with my experience of the the table top games that inspired Darkwind. But I also know that I had to work hard to figure stuff out and even still, as a paying customer I would recommend there be more helpful information (and less bragging). |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Sep 30, 2009, 11:19 pm |
An important aspect of the game and gleeming information , is off course the forum. I think new players should be directed here as well as the wiki, this is the only outlet that gives information on patches and game changes. A good percentage of new players never look at the forum, so will lose valuable information. | ||||
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Marrkos Posted Oct 1, 2009, 12:32 am |
Patch Info
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Oct 1, 2009, 9:56 am |
And off course in the wiki ( where i didnt know it was placed :P) ill add it to links |
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Fealty Lost Posted Oct 1, 2009, 5:41 pm |
Asm'...if you're looking for the 'nuts and bolts' you're not going to get them. Sam has said he purposely doesn't let people know how the game world works, it's up to you to figure it out.
So...I think, as YOU figure things out, you should compare your notes with the Wiki and then add what you think a new player would be interested in. Since Sam doesn't want us to know the mechanics...all we really have are strategies on HOW to succeed in the game. As to WHY someone would want to check DW out, most probably it's because of a past history of table-top gaming, to include Car Wars and some of the computer games which pay homage to apocalyptic-based environments with lots of weapons-toting vehicles. We don't know if it's a d100...or whatever. All we have are our experiences and TACTICS. Either you are interested in a game like this one, or you are not. Like all businesses, it's word of mouth that gets the most potential interest. And remember, this isn't a full-time job for Sam...yet. This game is still very much in flux and Sam strives to improve it when he can and how he can. With that being said... ...as a new player, dropped weapons are you best friend. When you start to solo scout, make sure you have TONS of spike droppers and/or FOJ's. They not only damage the enemy and hinder their ability to chase you and climb after you, but they also give you time to figure out where and how to set up and do it before the enemy is upon you. I hope you slide under a gas truck and taste your own blood. 
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Asmoday Rex Posted Oct 1, 2009, 9:28 pm |
Damon, I'm not talking about the "behind the scenes" details - not the algorithms used for this or for that. Know those things could lead to unfair advantages, of course. What I mean is... as I've said before... every good technical writer knows that you have to start by assuming your customer knows nothing.
What's a marauder? I know, but so many newbies may not. And a nice little piece of world flavor it is, it would be wise to have some material about it. As for the abilities and skills??? Yes, as with every game you see on bookshelves, this must be explained and explainable - otherwise is might seem like trivia. But since it does appear somewhat to have an effect on game play, it obviously isn't trivia. And withholding this information is insulting to those you would ask to pay for additional privileges. You know...come to mention "every game you see on bookshelves," have you ever noticed that the ones that have stuck around for decades always seem to start with "what is a role-playing game?" See what I mean? If this is a private club, like my Saturday evening d20 sessions are, then leave things as they and stay out of the trade magazines. But if this is a place that desires growth and money - then give the customer what they need and want. That means instructions that make sense and enhance the game play. Otherwise, me... I'm perfectly happy. I love this game. Unfortunately for me though, my sense of role-play requires audience participation and I'm not very keen on writing narrative fictions. Maybe when I explore camps I'll be convinced that the army of gangers I'm growing actually can show some personality. |
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Fealty Lost Posted Oct 2, 2009, 5:21 pm |
Asm'...ya, I'm there with you, but again, remember, this isn't a full-time gig for Professor Sam. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for the launch of the game or, as you can see, I have no problem putting words to paper and would have been more than happy to have given players a comprehensive play manual that explained the world of DW fully...including comprehensive skill listings, vehicle capability listings, etc., like those games we all know and love (and actually had a hand in contributing to for some of us).
This is a bit of a niche game...unfortunately. However, with all the great software that's now out there, I'd love to see some of it (like from the game I'm helping develope right now) incorporated into DW...espescially when it comes to gangers and 'out of vehicle' interaction. Of course, then you get into the money thing...licensing software isn't cheap...as I found out when I opened my computer education and entertainmenet facility (argh). Not a few of us have let Sam know that our skills with the written word are available, however, without disclosure, we don't know what to write about...and Catch 22. We'd all love to see the game grow, but in the end, it's Sam's Baby. We exist at his liesure. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Oct 2, 2009, 6:39 pm |
Lads remember as stated before, a lot of information is to be learnt, thats the beauty of DW not everything is to hand at the turn of a page, your lucky you can look in the wiki and see what a marauder is sporting... breaking down everything to numbers and results would kill some of the beauty, that is the mystery of the game, granted the mechanics need more information but there is nothing stopping anybody adding to or updating the wiki, in fact marrkos insists ..... yes the game is developed , debugged , updated, kept in check by one man... considering he does everything, with the help of an odd few for graphics, he does a blinding job, most wouldn't bother after this amount of time... the game is very player driven, as you no doubt have noticed via the forum, no other game i have played has this amount of player input, and a developer that listens, replies and plays.
Asmoday i understand your frustrations at not having a plainly written set of guides and instructions.... but this is in the works as we speak, just recently sam advised us that he was preparing a more detailed guide, but off course im sure our other requests have taken precedence as always ( we are a demanding lot ) |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Oct 2, 2009, 7:06 pm |
That is the understatement of the century! Sure a more detailed guide would be nice, but nothing will teach you more than experience. At least players can do almost anything in the game without subbing to find out if this game is for them or not before plunking down their cash. I've bought more than a few games from the store (at $50+ each) only to play them for an hour or two and wishing I could get my money back. Asm', your request is valid but there just isn't a way to sum up this game in a 2 or 100 page manual that can be read and understand the intricacies of the game. Unfortunately the game does have a niche audience due to it be turned based, most “kids” now a days want a faster paced game. I don’t know the numbers but I bet there have been a ton of players who have started Driving School and don’t even finish the race before deciding the game is “too slow for their tastes. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Oct 2, 2009, 7:28 pm |
Heh that's funny, I didn't finish the driving school race before unconditional love was in effect and I immediately jumped into a real race with my 1st character. | ||||
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*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Oct 2, 2009, 11:19 pm |
I have been here before, during and after Beta........ A LONG time! Granted, I wasn't here for the inception of DW, but long enough to have a good grasp of the game, albeit a tenuous grip!
When Marrkos added the Wiki, the information that FLOODED the pages there was incredible. In a short time, it fully surpassed the "on-site" players manual and has kept growing since! While the on-site manual can be changed by the developer only, the Wiki is FULLY player driven and CAN be added to by anyone. In fact, as others have mentioned, Sam keeps some of the coding secret for the sole purpose that we players must play and experience the game to find out the answers to our questions. The additions we players have made to the Wiki actually answer some of those 'hidden' code questions in detail, whether the person adding it realized it or not!
While I don't agree with this statement that it's insulting to prospective subscribers, I can understand your point that most games have detailed explanations of in game characters, skills, hit points, etc. Darkwind, as you have noticed, can not be put in ANY general category that 'most games' can be! It has a genre, player base and game mechanics that are singular from any game out there. It has a very steep learning curve. Most games take you by the hand and guide you from noob through continuous levels up to a point where you can defeat ANYTHING or anyone in the game. All players of DW, from noob to the hard-core veteran, plays the game on the same playing field or arena as more or less equals. (Obviously depending on the skills of his in-game ganger.) BUT!.... If, hypothetically, the new player were given skilled members like a veteran has, the only difference would be the skill of the experienced player over the new player. Hence, The experience the PLAYER gains while playing the game is just as important as the ganger skills gained. To bring this long-winded and wavering post to a close: If you find the on-site player guide lacking, it is for a reason. If you find the Wiki lacking info you think would help a new player, by all means add the pertinent information as a guide yourself. You may have noticed there are at least 3 "New player" guides already there. As I said, the Wiki has MUCH more info in it than the site manual and as a player driven information page can and does contain information that Sam kept hidden from players purposefully. offthesoapboxJD |
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Asmoday Rex Posted Oct 3, 2009, 1:05 am |
Again - you all seem to miss the point of this thread and this newbie forum. I'm not talking about in-game skills & experience - but how to operate the computer (to speak it plainly for you). This is the first thing your potential new recruit will want in order to feel confident about exploring the possibilities.
What button does what? Trust me, you may think it is simple enough for you to understand - but a new arrival to this game/place will find many confusing twists and this alone is discouraging to the goal of "encouraging a larger player base." If you are defending something against my humble suggestion that a direct, concise, and user friendly manual of instructions be available (which has nothing to do with "the code" of the game or the math behind the wheels), I beg you to ask yourself what are you defending and why. |
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*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Oct 3, 2009, 1:41 am |
OK.........
Hows this: Gameplay input reference Gameplay Keyboard Reference Gameplay chat commands ALL these came from the DW Wiki. We are only responding to your questions AMD.... Defending nothing. we need to defend nothing against you humble suggestion....... Some of us may have read it wrong or misunderstood what you wanted to explain in more concise words. Are the links I posted above what you are looking for? If they are, I would suggest that you READ the Wiki closer and USE the green word prompts to search for a page that might have something to do with what your question is instead of implying that we are hiding something from the membership or defending anything! Your "Questions a Noob might ask" is a good topic..... We are only replying and responding to what we personally perceive as a question from you.... Granted I DO get a bit long winded at times. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Oct 3, 2009, 10:52 am |
Again The Wiki is your source of instructive information, not concise, but that is why this section of the forum was added, after your suggestion.
I already added a link thread to this section of the forum... Asmoday if you have questions ask them. We have agreed with you, directed you and expressed our opinions. can we just put a line under this, as it feels like an argument for no apparent reason |
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Asmoday Rex Posted Oct 3, 2009, 12:05 pm |
Yes |