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Engine v.91, Scripts v.190

Seiler Pestilence Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers Posts: 946 Joined: Apr 29, 2007 I'd still personally prefer gunnery and LG skill not crossover to handgunner, in all honesty, since firing a mounted weapon is a very different discipline than firing from your shoulder. ......................... vet deathrceL1 wv Posted May 13, 2008, 8:01 pm

hallen Riotous Assembly Autodueller Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: Aug 16, 2007 Wondering how people are getting on with the laser reductions - understand that they needed to be dropped a bit - but my laser specialist 3 struggled quite a bit but was first time out so will give another go before jumping to conclusions. There doesnt seem to have been a drop in the lasers CR yet though? ......................... vet combat1 wv gateautumn Posted May 13, 2008, 9:38 pm

pweelg Canis Lupus Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 741 Joined: Aug 19, 2007 Also on lasers, have done some testing and spotted an important bug. Lasers feel a bit more realistic now i think but i agree with hallen, as their functionality has diminished , so should their cr. ......................... vet combatL1 raceL1 wv Posted May 13, 2008, 10:04 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 One of the things I changed was that lasers no longer recharge on the same turn that they fired (that's how it was before, mostly due to laziness). I upped the recharge rate to compensate, but the overall effect may be a slight nerfing "under normal usage conditions". Feedback from laser users and especially those with laser specialism would useful.. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 13, 2008, 10:05 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I'll take a look at handgunner specialisms in a couple of days time, after dealing with the more pressing ped/wilderness/looting bugs. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 13, 2008, 10:07 pm

madmax MainForcePatrol Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: Dec 6, 2007 I think thats a good solution, as it will stop them from firing every turn. ......................... vet wv Posted May 13, 2008, 10:23 pm

Jansan Vigilante Knights Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: May 7, 2007 The people who specialized in this are going to be disappointed of course, as are most people who get nerfed. But I think you have to seriously realize how dominating that spec and weapon combo was and consider if it is really in line with the other weapons. Let's not kid ourselves. It needed to be fixed. ......................... vet Posted May 13, 2008, 10:48 pm

pweelg Canis Lupus Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 741 Joined: Aug 19, 2007 yes it did need something, however as it stands at the mo its 3 shots with a level 3 before reloading on a weapon that is more CR than a tank gun....not right not when a paint gun can disable 2 fire trucks for 5 to 10 rounds ......................... vet combatL1 raceL1 wv Posted May 13, 2008, 11:05 pm

hallen Riotous Assembly Autodueller Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: Aug 16, 2007 Jansan, go back and read what was written - we all agree that lasers had to be toned down a bit, but we are discussing the relative values of this, obviously disappointed personally as I have put a lot of effort into laser specialisms, but we were discussing it not slagging the changes off. ......................... vet combat1 wv gateautumn Posted May 13, 2008, 11:10 pm Last edited May 13, 2008, 11:10 pm by *hallen*

Group: Posts: 0 Joined: Today Posted Today, 1:21 pm

Jansan Vigilante Knights Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: May 7, 2007 *SirLatte* said: Why is it that people keep saying that? Are we really trying to make every weapon equal? I understand your frustration Latte, but equal is not the same as balanced. I was never suggesting it be equal, just balanced. Pros and cons. I've helped Seiler score some heavy lasers, and Radon Rancher appear often enough in Badlands that if lasers are the best weapon, soon we'll all be using it because its the only weapon worth using. And then the game will have to be balanced around using an over-powered weapon, and its a downward spiral. And hallen, I did read what was written, but okay I'll back off and let you guys discuss it then. I've said my piece on this particular change, that's all I wanted to do. My apologies. Perhaps the pendulum has swung too far the other way. I'll just say that I've never seen Sam make a weapon change without a deep investigation. It took an insane campaign just to get rockets tweaked. Some people complained, because, well they all had rocket trucks built because they were overpowered, and people don't like to give that up. It's human nature, but sometimes you have to step back and look at the big picture in a game like this. I'm not invalidating your points though. Like I said, the pendulum can swing too far the other way. Maybe the tweak was too much? I have not seen it in action myself. ......................... vet Posted May 13, 2008, 11:26 pm

Group: Posts: 0 Joined: Today Posted Today, 1:21 pm

Jansan Vigilante Knights Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: May 7, 2007 *SirLatte* said: Thank You Jansan, I appreciate your comments. I would rather see weapons become harder to get than changing how well they work... We all should be trying to get the very best weapons in the game. Hell if they had hand held nukes Id want them too. That's certainly a very fair viewpoint, in fact, if I had to place a wager I'd bet most people would more agree with you than me. But for me, I'd rather unique or rare weapons not be "better", just "unique". Like the laser is unique in that it has infinite ammo, it has unique properties as its own damage type, yet a car rifle could outshoot it consecutively since a laser drains power. The car cannon/atg/tank guns have splash damage from the explosive shells but have huge bulk and tiny clips. Machine guns, the most common weapon, are tiny in bulk, but have high clip, low recoil, and have average distance and low damage. So people who don't go for rare weapons have less strategy and less options available. We have rockets, machine guns, gatling guns, car rifles, etc. Lasers and cannons, having their own unqiue properties, are available in smaller quanities, and the advantage people have who use them is that even though the weapon itself isn't "super superior". However, it is a different type of weapon with its own virtues and flaws that you can't buy at Jakes. In very very brief terms, I can sum up my point by saying I perfer "sword and axe", versus "sword and sword+1". ......................... vet Posted May 13, 2008, 11:40 pm

madmax MainForcePatrol Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: Dec 6, 2007 I would like a balance between the two. Weapons can be better, just not unfairly so, and thaey must have some drawback. I think that at laserfire lvl1 it should be maybe 7 turns of fire before it starts doing too little damage, then maybe 10 turns to return to full power, or a bit less. ......................... vet wv Posted May 14, 2008, 12:03 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Sorry to frustrate you Latte! The reason I asked for feedback is that I will, of course, increase the effect of laser specialism if necessary, following feedback from you guys. How much should laser CR be reduced by? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 14, 2008, 10:32 am

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 A few more (minor) bugs Despite showing all that info it didn't actually tell me what I wanted to know - distance to target. Also showing this much info might be revealing too much, though we can get pretty much all the info except injuries recieved from the NPC's gang page and injuries would be observable anyway. When targeting pedestrian NPC names show up like this, they also show like this when you hover over a weapon in the management tab. As far as the weapon argument goes: In principle I'd like to see what Jansan is suggesting, but I consider "rarity" another unique attribute that can be used to balance weapons just like damage/ammo/bulk which can 'force' people to trade more. I haven't tried out lasers since the change but from what I read in this thread it seems an excessive nerf, the problem was that at LF3 the power wouldn't go down at all after the first shot, LF2 and LF1 were fine in my opinion. If you're going to reduce the Laser CR I'd say reducing it by about 20% would be ok, though I don't think it's really needed. Also I think that if specialisms are nerfed the characters with the affected specialisms should maybe get an option to re-spec the char since it's hard to see these things coming... ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted May 14, 2008, 10:46 am

Group: Posts: 0 Joined: Today Posted Today, 1:21 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Quote: Sam... I am not Frustrated at just this. Its just everything combined that has been talked about of late. I'm in a difficult position here. On the one hand, I have players lobbying for change, and on the other hand I have other players who don't agree. I can't please both sides... what do I do? The current debate on lockup/garage/marketplace fees is a good case in point - there's no real consensus there. Going back further, take a look at the fog of war thread -- it's a stalemate. Look at the camp combat thread - so many conflicting opinions. btw, I'm going to un-nerf LF specialism somewhat. FYI, there will be no benefit to going beyond LF level 3. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 14, 2008, 12:03 pm Last edited May 14, 2008, 12:13 pm by *sam*

Group: Posts: 0 Joined: Today Posted Today, 1:21 pm

Parduz BroadRausters Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 523 Joined: Feb 5, 2008 Sam, i hear you. If i can make a tiny critic about how the things are going, then i'd say that maybe a more "thematic" way to go should help a bit. I mean: Did you think that is time to retouch our economic life, and how money is charged to Gangs? Then plan it, ask for opinions, take YOUR decisions and finally code them in a whole bunch. Same as for weapon tweaking: group them in a single patch,if needed, so you will "hurt" the whole community, not a single player that maybe take that weap. as his only way to go. This way we will see almost all the whole picture and we will know in advance where things will goes. Hey, Sam, i'm not complaining at all about how you do your work, and sure i'm not teaching anything. Read my post as a very peaceful opinion from someone that sometime think is difficult to plan somewhat 'cause he "fear" the next changes. ......................... vet wv Posted May 14, 2008, 12:21 pm

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