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Noob scouting tip from a Noob, Always have a plan
skullkandy
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I have been doing scouts non stop since i started about a week or so ago. possibly to the point of annoyance i ask to go on every scout that pops up or just say "anyone planning a scout soon?" in the lobby.

I have noticed that the one biggest difference between a scout ending with glorious victory or horrible defeat is having a plan.

In every success there was always a veteran player who took charge. Before the first turn would start they would come up with a plan and it would be discussed by everyone until we all had a general idea of what to do.

In each of my two defeats the game started, everyone just kinda ran around and did whatever they thought was best for that turn. There was no leader and no cohesion.


This made such a massive difference. A leader, or at least one or two people who general determine what the overall strategy is going to be is very important.


So my suggestions for noobs like myself is listen. If someone seems like they know what they're doing ask them "who should I assist on?" or call your targets "targeting mauler." and if it would help everyone more to target something else they will usually let you know." Also help with other targets, you may feel the need to attack something that no one else is so you can get the kill all by yourself and feel like a big man, but starting out you will do much better if you follow a more experienced player and assist on their targets.
Everyone wants to be the star player who single handedly takes down half the enemy, although taking orders and assisting on targets doesn't sound very glorious it will get you much more success.


So remember, some people are leaders, some are soldiers. Be a good soldier and you can learn enough to lead in the future while winning a lot more fights along the way.
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wv

Posted Dec 21, 2009, 5:03 pm
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very good advice...

but beware... I can name at least three 'leaders' in this game whose idea of leadership owes far too much to the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Grograt is a case in point... he couldnt lead his way out of a paper bag.
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Posted Dec 21, 2009, 5:14 pm
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My general rule of thumb, as a "Veteran," is that if I'm not the leader (host), I follow whatever plans the leader wants to do. If the leader isn't willing or able to lead the party, I'll step in with suggestions - I won't "take over" the Scout unless explicitly asked to.

When I'm leading a Scout, I plan to be calling the shots, I don't want to be second-guessed by someone else. That was one of the major contributing causes for the one serious clash I've had with someone else in the game - a newer player thought he knew better than the Veterans who were leading the Scouts.

There can only be one captain. If it's not you, pipe down and observe. If it is you, take charge and lead.
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Posted Dec 21, 2009, 5:19 pm
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I would add not to follow blindly though.

If your getting your lunch eaten in a dual gat pho as part of a line of apaches, by all means fall back. If you have a position with bad visibility, adjust. You are the only one who is paying close attention to the state of your vehicles and your leader expects you to act with some autonomous intelligence, and if things go downhill, your leader is going to get his cars out.

As a corollary to the last statement, if you see your vet leader starting to turn tail, you best join him before he tells you to :)

But whatever you do, as a new player, don't fail to communicate a deviation from plan. I can't tell you how many newbs I've seen get slaughtered leaving me insufficient firepower to take on the enemy because they decided it was time to charge without telling anyone.
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Posted Dec 21, 2009, 6:45 pm
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goat starer said:
very good advice...

but beware... I can name at least three 'leaders' in this game whose idea of leadership owes far too much to the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Goat starer is a case in point... he couldnt lead his way out of a paper bag.
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Posted Dec 21, 2009, 7:07 pm
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Good post SkullKandy
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Posted Dec 21, 2009, 7:28 pm
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Yeah I can definitely corroborate this. Having a specific (yet flexible) plan, clear direction, and an involved leader make a big difference.

And COMMUNICATE! Yesterday I lost a Windsor II, a Chomper, and two gangers, representing about 40% of my total gang's strength, on a scout. The Gang leader (who will go un-named) had his cars specced out for a tail-chase: oversized exposed engines and large rear-mounted weaponry. Myself and the other newb all had front-mounted weapons.

He did not share his plan with us. When he planted the flag and said, go there, we went there, got to the flag, and spun around and stopped to face the enemy. He was like, "WTH you doing stopping? Go to the next flag!" Then I noticed he had re-planted his flag about a mile farther away.

..and it went downhill from there.


Whenever I'm in a scouting mission, first thing I do, before I even finlaize my starting location, is to ask in team chat, "Thanks for having me along. What's the plan?" Three things happen at that point:

(1) The scout owner speaks up and describes a plan. These are the good days.

(2) Stony silence. This makes me nervous.

(3) The scout leader says something like "d00d jus k1ll stuff LAWL." This is when I break out in a sweat and start planning my escape.

I'm happy to follow orders as long as there is CLEAR direction and a good plan.
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Posted Dec 21, 2009, 8:35 pm
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zephyr is very right! it's all about communication.



to clerify, don't expect someone to tell you how far to turn, who to shoot, what to shoot and how to drive. they may offer suggestions but what you're really looking for is an overall plan to follow so the whole team isn't acting solo.

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wv

Posted Dec 21, 2009, 9:05 pm
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Also, be aware that some people do not make great scout squad mates. While overall, this community is very helpful and friendly, do be careful who you scout with.

If someone is pretty nonchalant with his car/crew, you better believe he could care less about yours.

If someone is "just trying something out", chances are he is not going to contribute anything but CR to the scout.

You may also find "lurkers" who will hang back and avoid contact while you soak damage, just for their shot at the loot page.

As a noob, you should not be taking it on the chin. The vets with better cars and crews should be, and when you reach that stage you should return the favors.
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 2:07 am
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Sternschnuppe said:
As a noob, you should not be taking it on the chin.  The vets with better cars and crews should be, and when you reach that stage you should return the favors.


I'd have to disagree with this line.  The vets shouldn't be taking it, in fact, there isn't much in SS to scare someone at all who's been around more than a couple months. To a vet SS scouts consist of mopping up a few weak cars for some extra cash and a few points of training.

If you are in a scout with a vet, you should be aware that a group scout in SS is probably the least profitable thing you can be doing outside just blowing money for fun.  The only reason I scout with people in SS is the enjoyment of the social aspect.  There are no rares in SS, and if I wanted cash I could run 5 solo scouts in the time it takes to do 1 scout with a couple newbies AND bring home all the loot myself AND not risk getting stampeded by a hoard of scorps when the line breaks because people didn't know what they were doing.

So, if you think someone with more than a few weeks experience is sitting back letting the new guys do all the work bagging cadronas so he can get his $15K share of the profits, realize that that is the silliest of notions.  More likely, the vet is sizing up the situation, wondering how he's going to recover or escape if his compatriots, who just took a giant gamble by setting up in a bad position or charging in, can't stand up to the onslaught and he has to take on the AI by himself outnumbered 3 to 1 once the smoke clears.

Seriously, I don't have much cash or rares at all compared to most of the players here, but even I can't be bothered to sit in on an hour long scout to hopefully bag myself yet another beat up phoe even if I was guaranteed no risk.  I do it because it's fun playing with other people and it's enjoyable showing newbies the ropes.
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 2:40 am
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Some great comments here :D
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 11:15 am
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Zephyr said:
Three things happen at that point: 
...
(3)  The scout leader says something like "d00d jus k1ll stuff LAWL."  This is when I break out in a sweat and start planning my escape. 


Ahh memories! This is what happened in one of my first scouts I joined ... 1 dead guy and apache-less later... I've re-examined tactics since then  :p

"The difference between school and DW? In school, you're taught a lesson and then given a test. In DW, you're given a test that teaches you a lesson."
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 11:50 am Last edited Dec 22, 2009, 11:52 am by BigStick
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proc - is it possible you're confused anout what "taking it on the chin" means? Because I'm having real trouble understanding your post.

I think what Sternschnuppe means (and I agree) is that if a vet (whatever that means) goes out with new players, they should be willing to take most of the risks in order to shield the others. I would never take my best gangers out when showing a new player the ropes simply because I want to be able to sacrifice them if necessary to get a new player out of trouble.

Also, I I agree with Zephyr - if you're going to take new players out (or indeed run any group scout) you should be prepared to be the one coming up with a plan if no-one else will.
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 11:51 am
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Wolfsbane said:
proc - is it possible you're confused anout what "taking it on the chin" means?  Because I'm having real trouble understanding your post.

I think what Sternschnuppe means (and I agree) is that if a vet (whatever that means) goes out with new players, they should be willing to take most of the risks in order to shield the others.  I would never take my best gangers out when showing a new player the ropes simply because I want to be able to sacrifice them if necessary to get a new player out of trouble.

Also, I I agree with Zephyr - if you're going to take new players out (or indeed run any group scout) you should be prepared to be the one coming up with a plan if no-one else will.


I agree with that.  It sounded more to me that he was implying that vets use new players to take all the damage while they get dibs on the loot screen, which is just silly.  There's nothing on a group scout SS loot screen worth the hour I spent whether I took damage or not.  I can see why new players might think that a vet is trying to screw them too... when you are trying desperately to save up 20K, that loot scorp looks mighty valuable and they might think that a veteran player with 2 mil in the bank got that way by screwing people out of scorps, which just isn't the case; in fact it's crazy talk.  We all know that goat got his money by using his hammer peds to erect pulveriser statues, whereby Wirt's leg defeated the buzzer for instance, and although his case isn't typical, a new player doesn't know that and is likely to try it and be eaten by cows!  Never emulate a goat.

As for taking risks to save new players after a bad decision, I'm all for it.  Some of the craziest and most fun scouts I've had have been trying to save the situation after multiple new players thought that "go to that hill" meant "go full speed into those rockets!  Make sure they hit you in the side too, that's the way you can barrel roll the best!"
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 12:12 pm
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Quote:
It sounded more to me that he was implying that vets use new players to take all the damage while they get dibs on the loot screen, which is just silly.  There's nothing on a group scout SS loot screen worth the hour I spent whether I took damage or not.


Let me clarify by defining "vet" as anyone who is not new, meaning they have their little Wasteland badges.  I agree that to a lot of long time vets (with tons of cash and cool gear) the only reason they scout SS is to help the new guys and perhaps break in new crews.  It is pretty obvious to me when the loot screen pops up and the "old hands" just drop out, because like you said, there is nothing in the loot worth their time.  When I started, I had "old hands" tell me to grab the Black Rock or Pulvie because "those are good cars".

However, new players need to be aware, as I said, that if there is a vet on a scout who is not helping him, showing them the ropes, and actively participating, they may have other motives.  Perhaps I am wrong, but it's just my observation.
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 3:14 pm
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Iffler said:
very good advice...

but beware... I can name at least three 'leaders' in this game whose idea of leadership owes far too much to the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Iffler is a case in point... he couldnt lead his way out of a paper bag.
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Posted Dec 22, 2009, 3:38 pm
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maybe i've just gotten lucky but every scout i've jumped into with a veteran player they helped a ton and if need be came charging in to save a bad situation that myself or another noob got us into.
they also have let us new players take all the loot for ourselves.

the scouts i've been on without a vet in the mix either

a) the noobs talked amongts ourselves, came up with some sort of plan and rocked hard.

b) no one talked and everyone played as if they were in a solo game.....ending in lots of damage to us.


in my opinion any high skilled player who puts together an ss scout for noobs is doing so just to be friendly and have fun, because let's face it they aren't in it for the loot. So if they sit back shooting when needed and more so offering advice that's an excellent contribution to the scout.


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wv

Posted Dec 22, 2009, 8:00 pm
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I consider myself a Veteran (of sorts), and I am in it for the loot. I want the Apache, or whatever "rarer" chassis that shows up, as much as anyone else in the Scout. But I'm absolutely willing to pass on the hot loot if someone else *needs* it (a new subscriber who doesn't have a decent car yet, or someone who got their car shot to hell). In a SS scout, I mostly angle to cover my repair costs. If I'm in Kitty Parade, I absolutely want to loot as much as I can manage, taking my fair share. If I'm in Graffiti Punk, my paint car (Ballistics Training car), I'm not so concerned, as there's a good chance that GP hasn't taken more than a few points of damage - and GP is much cheaper to repair than KP, in any case (and easier to replace, as well).

So don't assume that Vets will automatically pass over the hot loot. And, more importantly, don't spare the "hot loot cars" in hopes of taking them home. If it's in your face, KILL IT. If you're getting the "junk" cars hitting you first, by all means overkill them in order to cause the others to lose morale. That's how you take back pristine cars, after all.
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Posted Feb 3, 2010, 5:50 pm
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I agree with lots of what's been posted but would add, bear in mind your car (newb) is not the same as their car (vet).

I was often very disappointed that my pickup didn't hit nearly as much as the apache next to me. This is normal, it may even be worth waiting an extra turn after everyone else starts firing to improve your chances of a hit. Just don't wait too long.

Also it may sound obveous but if you decide to go for a viper or phoenix then don't try to hold the line with the landrunners. I have seen it time and again people lining up sedans next to the bigger cars and expecting to do fine.
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Posted Feb 4, 2010, 2:10 pm
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Actually, I would recommend shooting before you can actually hit, the repeat fire bonus can be substantial for high ammo weapons, like HMG/HGG, but that's just me.
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Posted Feb 4, 2010, 2:13 pm
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