Darkwind - Viewing Topic: Squad Combat Leagues
Welcome Guest! » Darkwind » Announcements » Game Announcements » Squad Combat Leagues

Pages: << prev ... 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... next >> Reply to Topic Create New Topic Create New Poll
Squad Combat Leagues
*Ayjona*
Edgerunners
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Marshals + Contributors
Posts: 515
Joined: Dec 6, 2006

Send an email to *Ayjona* Visit *Ayjona*'s web site Send a personal messsage to *Ayjona* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Damon_Angel said:
Institute individual vehicle surrenders in PvP that render them bullet-proof and remove them from combat. Shorten escape distances to 150 meters for PvP. Institute loot screens based on actual vehicles/equipment faced that artificially generate loot for the winner without taking from the loser. That's how to make PvP popular.


Every now and then, all non-mainstream MMOs receive suggestions titled "this is how to gain more players", "this is how to make PvP less severe", "this is why DW will never be as big as WoW", etc. Even DW occasionally sees posts that read "this systems does not cater to the standard player, so please remove it". Many a great indie game cave in to this pressure eventually. But what to keep in mind is that they were purposefully built this way, with the intentions of providing a different gaming atmosphere. And that is why games like DW attracts players such as US, who have grown so tired (or, in my case, never ever had any energy for) the mainstream titles.

Invincible vehicles? Magic loot? That is anathema to everything DW stands for.
.........................
vet marshal wv

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:05 pm
*Ayjona*
Edgerunners
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Marshals + Contributors
Posts: 515
Joined: Dec 6, 2006

Send an email to *Ayjona* Visit *Ayjona*'s web site Send a personal messsage to *Ayjona* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

[quote=*sam*]Does it really need explaining? Skill-caps are an artificial construct, why are they suddenly being seen as an example of realism that shouldn't be contravened?

Skill-caps are a representation of how good a character can personally get through field-training and [i]normal [/i]training centre work. There are gurus who can train them higher than that. Seems simple to me.[/quote]

While I ill like to rely on rethoric, EVERYTHING in DW are artificial constructs. Human beings certainly don't have DW's fixed set of skills. There is no true realism, which is why expressions such as "relative realism" apply. Anything could be justified, in any way, if you take this stance.

One of the great strengths of DW, and you as a world-builder and storyteller, is that you never have.

If this becomes the dominant argument ("artificial mechanical constructs have no relation to canon, and can be treated any way"), the gaming world quickly breaks down. I've seen this process in many MMOs, and it often ends with the players growing complacent, and accepting solutions and explanations that could so easily have been improved.

While this will never happen to DW, us as players hounding you for better in-canon explanations is a good thing, and can only serve to improve DW's gaming world, and motivate you to improve your methods.

As for the actual argument: if there indeed are gurus who can train characters beyond their limits (which seems unlikely enough, given that within the fields of pedagogy and andragogy, the dominant paradigm is that once you reach a certain level of adeptness, teaching gradually loses it's effectiveness, and you can only improve significantly through self-education. Not the other way around), it seems very unlikely to me that their services would be given away to competition winners. Unlikely, and not very dramatic.
.........................
vet marshal wv

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:21 pm Last edited Feb 20, 2010, 5:22 pm by *Ayjona*
FireFly
Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Members
Posts: 5,468
Joined: Mar 3, 2008

Send an email to FireFly View FireFly's MSN profile Send a personal messsage to FireFly Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

*Ayjona* said:
-
The part about training given out as prices being given as prices... not probable?

I don't see why not, it doesn't really have to be "Guru's", maybe just some high quality training, doesn't seem very out of place to me, no matter how much you know, or how good you are, you can always get better, with the proper training.

Remember, the arena events and race events are run by the richest of the rich, and the Mob, both should have plenty of connections...

Anyway, I'll stick by the point that this is a really good prize...
.........................
vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:29 pm Last edited Feb 20, 2010, 5:30 pm by FireFly
*Ayjona*
Edgerunners
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Marshals + Contributors
Posts: 515
Joined: Dec 6, 2006

Send an email to *Ayjona* Visit *Ayjona*'s web site Send a personal messsage to *Ayjona* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

FireFly said:
Anyway, I'll stick by the point that this is a really good prize...


Yes, I maintain that in all other respects than the one I mention above, it is a really good prize. (I was never fond of absolute skill caps to being with (as compared to gradual and drastic slowdowns of skill gain), and stretching them is a good thing, to my mind.)
.........................
vet marshal wv

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:34 pm Last edited Feb 20, 2010, 5:46 pm by *Ayjona*
*Marc5iver*
5ive Crew
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Marshals
Posts: 1,354
Joined: Oct 10, 2008

Send an email to *Marc5iver* Send a personal messsage to *Marc5iver* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase.

My $0.05
.........................
vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:39 pm
*Ayjona*
Edgerunners
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Marshals + Contributors
Posts: 515
Joined: Dec 6, 2006

Send an email to *Ayjona* Visit *Ayjona*'s web site Send a personal messsage to *Ayjona* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Marc5iver said:
Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase.

My $0.05


Nope. As I've said several times, the actual skill gain part of the prize is a great addition. It does not concern me at all.

So I agree with yer post ;)
.........................
vet marshal wv

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:45 pm
This member is currently online Joel Autobaun
Joels Bastards
Darkwind Guru

Deathrace Mafia Faction

Member Level

Group: Subscribers
Posts: 4,589
Joined: Nov 10, 2008

Send a personal messsage to Joel Autobaun Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Marc5iver said:
Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase.

My $0.05


It's a good point.  Div I costs 1 mil to enter too.  You can work your way up to dev 1 in more than 1 REAL year.

Along the way how many gangers are you going to LOSE?
.........................
vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle197,84,27

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:54 pm
*Marc5iver*
5ive Crew
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Marshals
Posts: 1,354
Joined: Oct 10, 2008

Send an email to *Marc5iver* Send a personal messsage to *Marc5iver* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

*Ayjona* said:
Marc5iver said:
Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase.

My $0.05


Nope. As I've said several times, the actual skill gain part of the prize is a great addition. It does not concern me at all.

So I agree with yer post ;)


My post was more for some of the naysayers earlier in the thread. Rare that I actually agree with FF.  :o
.........................
vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp20,1,0

Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:54 pm
Lord Foul
.-^-HellRazors-^.
Darkwind Guru

Mutants Faction

Member Level

Group: Rules Council
Posts: 3,543
Joined: Jan 12, 2008

Send an email to Lord Foul Send a personal messsage to Lord Foul Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

For those of you who were thinking of joining the new PVP squad league, but were hesitant due the rewards not being up to par, there was some discussion in the RC about this and Sam has modified the rewards for all the divisions to entice those that wanted more in return for the effort.

All prize money will be divided evenly depending on how many players are in the squad.

All training bonuses and production bonuses will go to each player on the team and will not be divided up. So if the top prize is 20 points in training and you have 3 players on your team, each player will receive a 20 point training voucher. Sweet

Get your team together and join a division soon as there is 1 week left for signups and space is limited.
.........................
vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball56,218,129

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:48 am
*Longo*
Longos Merry Men
Darkwind Guru

Mutants Faction

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Marshals
Posts: 6,569
Joined: Dec 15, 2007

Send an email to *Longo* Send a personal messsage to *Longo* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Also note Sam's recent change allowing gangs to compete in 2 different Divisions, as long as they only LEAD one. So if you belong to two camps and wanted to support them both, now you can.

These are great rewards, so make a team, even if its in the lowest Division. Whats the most you will lose? a few recently recruited gangers?
.........................
vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 3:38 am
*sam*
The Salthill Sluggerz
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Lead Developer
Posts: 16,752
Joined: Jan 19, 2006

Send an email to *sam* Send a personal messsage to *sam* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

BTW we're most likely going to restrict the leagues running this year to Div 5 and Div 4, due to lack on entries. Anyone already registered to higher leagues will be refunded.
.........................
marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay20130,1,0

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 9:14 am
Alocalypse
Advanced Race Labs
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Members
Posts: 2,236
Joined: May 6, 2007

Send a personal messsage to Alocalypse Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

I like vouchers because they make sense gameplay wise and can be justified if you don't think too hard about it.

EDIT: I would probably personally roleplay this as eating the brains of your slain opponents and gaining their knowledge/power through that.

Quote:
...and characters can have no weapon skill above 60.


But I'd like to hear the in-game explanation to that. How do they know? Why can't I tell my gunners to pretend to suck when they're being evaluated by the Evan Equality and Fairness Bureau? Darkwind: 2053 everyone will finally be equal.

Also gameplay wise, it's a bit meh, if people are willing to risk their awesome gunners in pvp then it's their business and they should be allowed to. I think most people wouldn't anyway, but the higher the stakes the more exiting it is for me.

If character skills matter so much that it's impossible to beat someone with higher skilled characters, then maybe character skills should be nerfed to hell rebalanced so the game is all about level grinding and not tactics/skill.

Also if you want to make it "fair" using that kind of system then it should probably be capped by total weapon skill not individual skill (gunnery+ballistics+large guns) because someone with 3 skills at 50+ has 3 specialisms and is significantly more useful than someone with just one skill at 50. You should also cap courage to cover everything since winning depends on surrendering.
.........................
vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 10:35 am Last edited Feb 21, 2010, 10:48 am by Alocalypse
FireFly
Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Members
Posts: 5,468
Joined: Mar 3, 2008

Send an email to FireFly View FireFly's MSN profile Send a personal messsage to FireFly Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

*sam* said:
BTW we're most likely going to restrict the leagues running this year to Div 5 and Div 4, due to lack on entries. Anyone already registered to higher leagues will be refunded.
Now wait just a second here, cant you restrict it 1 - 3 - 5 instead or something?

Some of us have already made plans... and some of us does not have gangers in the 60 - 90 skill range... every guy I use that isnt below 30 is over 100, so this would just be mean...

Also, we already made plans  :)
.........................
vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:20 pm
*sam*
The Salthill Sluggerz
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Lead Developer
Posts: 16,752
Joined: Jan 19, 2006

Send an email to *sam* Send a personal messsage to *sam* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

FireFly said:
*sam* said:
BTW we're most likely going to restrict the leagues running this year to Div 5 and Div 4, due to lack on entries. Anyone already registered to higher leagues will be refunded.
Now wait just a second here, cant you restrict it 1 - 3 - 5 instead or something?

Some of us have already made plans... and some of us does not have gangers in the 60 - 90 skill range... every guy I use that isnt below 30 is over 100, so this would just be mean...

Also, we already made plans  :)



Sure, we could restrict it to 1 - 3 - 5, but what about the people who made plans to be in Div 4?

It's not ideal I know FF, but what's the point of making plans if you're the only team in the division?
.........................
marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay20130,1,0

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:37 pm
FireFly
Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Members
Posts: 5,468
Joined: Mar 3, 2008

Send an email to FireFly View FireFly's MSN profile Send a personal messsage to FireFly Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Longo has a squad in division 1

My point is thou, if you want to restrict them, have the highest one free, and the lowest one free, not just forcing everything to fight in the lowest tiers.

Cause, again, neither of the guys on my team and me have proper lower skilled characters, and I bet others would have that issue to...

Anyway, I think there will be some pretty fierce competition in Div 1
.........................
vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:43 pm Last edited Feb 21, 2010, 2:44 pm by FireFly
*jimmylogan*
MADHAT
Darkwind Guru

Merchants Faction

Member Level

Group: Marshals + Rule Council
Posts: 5,557
Joined: Jun 11, 2008

Send an email to *jimmylogan* Visit *jimmylogan*'s web site Send an AIM message to *jimmylogan* Send a personal messsage to *jimmylogan* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

FireFly said:
Cause, again, neither of the guys on my team and me have proper lower skilled characters, and I bet others would have that issue to...


You have people that are not at the maximum for that Div, but that would fit anyway, so I don't think this is relevant.

Quote:
Anyway,  I think there will be some pretty fierce competition in Div 1


The more people you have playing, the fiercer the competition, and the more people that get to play and enjoy...
.........................
vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:50 pm
FireFly
Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Members
Posts: 5,468
Joined: Mar 3, 2008

Send an email to FireFly View FireFly's MSN profile Send a personal messsage to FireFly Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Jimmy, what is your point?
I don't see why restricting the higher div's in favor of low ones has any benefit whatsoever...
.........................
vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 3:06 pm
*Grograt*
Grograts Gonads
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Marshals
Posts: 8,377
Joined: Oct 5, 2008

Send an email to *Grograt* Send a personal messsage to *Grograt* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Because nobody is signing up for the higher ones let alone the lower ones, this isnt all about you Firefly, others play as well, remember !!!!
.........................
vet marshal wv community

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 3:15 pm Last edited Feb 21, 2010, 3:17 pm by *Grograt*
*Ninesticks*
The Wombles
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Avatar

Member Level

Group: Marshals + Rule Council
Posts: 3,368
Joined: Apr 11, 2008

Send an email to *Ninesticks* Send a personal messsage to *Ninesticks* Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

'...' FF does that symbolise that you have paused to actually consider what you are putting and answered your own question? :p

Just in case it doesn't given the lack of take-up in the combat leagues it is perhaps wiser to go for the leagues that have a wider appeal/accessibility. The lower leagues are just that, more accessible in terms of crew risk, entry fee, and amount of CR that a player/team will need to control.

Additionally is it possible that the idea is that players progess through the leagues via promotion? This gives a long-term game goal. Of course when the league first starts you have to cater for the fact that not necessarily everyone will fit in to the lower league(s) and you plan to open all the leagues up (hence the entry fees to deter frivolous entries for example). When this doesn't occur, as it is in this case, see the point above.

Also do you think that the prizes like that offered in Division 1 should be available for fighting, what it would appear to be at this stage (say your team and Longo's), one single PvP combat? Seriously?
.........................
vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 3:22 pm
FireFly
Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers
Darkwind Guru

Renegade

Member Level

Group: Members
Posts: 5,468
Joined: Mar 3, 2008

Send an email to FireFly View FireFly's MSN profile Send a personal messsage to FireFly Reply with a quote from this post Go to the top of the page

Ever thought that there are people who don't want to fight in the lowest tier, when the caps are so strict?

The lowest tier basically limits your team to 3 phoenixes with Gatling guns, and I'm unsure that even fits.

Not to mention, the newer people, the ones the lower tier is setup for, will still have a helluva problem if all the vets are fighting in there, and that in turn will make them less probable to join.

Do this, have 1 high tier, and 1 low tier open to start with, se who signs up for what one, lets say, have 1 or 2 and 5 or 4 open to begin with.
.........................
vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0

Posted Feb 21, 2010, 3:30 pm Last edited Feb 21, 2010, 3:40 pm by FireFly
Reply to Topic Create New Topic Create New Poll E-mail me when replies are made to this topic View Printable
» Darkwind » Announcements » Game Announcements » Squad Combat Leagues

0.1288 seconds - 30 queries - 0.46 load