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Squad Combat Leagues

*Ayjona* Edgerunners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 515 Joined: Dec 6, 2006 Damon_Angel said: Institute individual vehicle surrenders in PvP that render them bullet-proof and remove them from combat. Shorten escape distances to 150 meters for PvP. Institute loot screens based on actual vehicles/equipment faced that artificially generate loot for the winner without taking from the loser. That's how to make PvP popular. Every now and then, all non-mainstream MMOs receive suggestions titled "this is how to gain more players", "this is how to make PvP less severe", "this is why DW will never be as big as WoW", etc. Even DW occasionally sees posts that read "this systems does not cater to the standard player, so please remove it". Many a great indie game cave in to this pressure eventually. But what to keep in mind is that they were purposefully built this way, with the intentions of providing a different gaming atmosphere. And that is why games like DW attracts players such as US, who have grown so tired (or, in my case, never ever had any energy for) the mainstream titles. Invincible vehicles? Magic loot? That is anathema to everything DW stands for. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:05 pm

*Ayjona* Edgerunners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 515 Joined: Dec 6, 2006 [quote=*sam*]Does it really need explaining? Skill-caps are an artificial construct, why are they suddenly being seen as an example of realism that shouldn't be contravened? Skill-caps are a representation of how good a character can personally get through field-training and [i]normal [/i]training centre work. There are gurus who can train them higher than that. Seems simple to me.[/quote] While I ill like to rely on rethoric, EVERYTHING in DW are artificial constructs. Human beings certainly don't have DW's fixed set of skills. There is no true realism, which is why expressions such as "relative realism" apply. Anything could be justified, in any way, if you take this stance. One of the great strengths of DW, and you as a world-builder and storyteller, is that you never have. If this becomes the dominant argument ("artificial mechanical constructs have no relation to canon, and can be treated any way"), the gaming world quickly breaks down. I've seen this process in many MMOs, and it often ends with the players growing complacent, and accepting solutions and explanations that could so easily have been improved. While this will never happen to DW, us as players hounding you for better in-canon explanations is a good thing, and can only serve to improve DW's gaming world, and motivate you to improve your methods. As for the actual argument: if there indeed are gurus who can train characters beyond their limits (which seems unlikely enough, given that within the fields of pedagogy and andragogy, the dominant paradigm is that once you reach a certain level of adeptness, teaching gradually loses it's effectiveness, and you can only improve significantly through self-education. Not the other way around), it seems very unlikely to me that their services would be given away to competition winners. Unlikely, and not very dramatic. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:21 pm Last edited Feb 20, 2010, 5:22 pm by *Ayjona*

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 *Ayjona* said: - The part about training given out as prices being given as prices... not probable? I don't see why not, it doesn't really have to be "Guru's", maybe just some high quality training, doesn't seem very out of place to me, no matter how much you know, or how good you are, you can always get better, with the proper training. Remember, the arena events and race events are run by the richest of the rich, and the Mob, both should have plenty of connections... Anyway, I'll stick by the point that this is a really good prize... ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:29 pm Last edited Feb 20, 2010, 5:30 pm by FireFly

*Ayjona* Edgerunners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 515 Joined: Dec 6, 2006 FireFly said: Anyway, I'll stick by the point that this is a really good prize... Yes, I maintain that in all other respects than the one I mention above, it is a really good prize. (I was never fond of absolute skill caps to being with (as compared to gradual and drastic slowdowns of skill gain), and stretching them is a good thing, to my mind.) ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:34 pm Last edited Feb 20, 2010, 5:46 pm by *Ayjona*

*Marc5iver* 5ive Crew Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,354 Joined: Oct 10, 2008 Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase. My $0.05 ......................... vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:39 pm

*Ayjona* Edgerunners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 515 Joined: Dec 6, 2006 Marc5iver said: Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase. My $0.05 Nope. As I've said several times, the actual skill gain part of the prize is a great addition. It does not concern me at all. So I agree with yer post ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:45 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Marc5iver said: Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase. My $0.05 It's a good point.  Div I costs 1 mil to enter too.  You can work your way up to dev 1 in more than 1 REAL year. Along the way how many gangers are you going to LOSE? ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:54 pm

*Marc5iver* 5ive Crew Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,354 Joined: Oct 10, 2008 *Ayjona* said: Marc5iver said: Everyone seems concerned by the 30 point skill increase for a ganger, but have you actually looked at the various leagues? 30 points is only for the winner of Division 1 and the amount goes down from there. If you compete in Division 5, you have no chance at skill or camp increase. My $0.05 Nope. As I've said several times, the actual skill gain part of the prize is a great addition. It does not concern me at all. So I agree with yer post My post was more for some of the naysayers earlier in the thread. Rare that I actually agree with FF.  ......................... vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 Posted Feb 20, 2010, 5:54 pm

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 For those of you who were thinking of joining the new PVP squad league, but were hesitant due the rewards not being up to par, there was some discussion in the RC about this and Sam has modified the rewards for all the divisions to entice those that wanted more in return for the effort. All prize money will be divided evenly depending on how many players are in the squad. All training bonuses and production bonuses will go to each player on the team and will not be divided up. So if the top prize is 20 points in training and you have 3 players on your team, each player will receive a 20 point training voucher. Sweet Get your team together and join a division soon as there is 1 week left for signups and space is limited. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:48 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Also note Sam's recent change allowing gangs to compete in 2 different Divisions, as long as they only LEAD one. So if you belong to two camps and wanted to support them both, now you can. These are great rewards, so make a team, even if its in the lowest Division. Whats the most you will lose? a few recently recruited gangers? ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Feb 21, 2010, 3:38 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 BTW we're most likely going to restrict the leagues running this year to Div 5 and Div 4, due to lack on entries. Anyone already registered to higher leagues will be refunded. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Feb 21, 2010, 9:14 am

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 I like vouchers because they make sense gameplay wise and can be justified if you don't think too hard about it. EDIT: I would probably personally roleplay this as eating the brains of your slain opponents and gaining their knowledge/power through that. Quote: ...and characters can have no weapon skill above 60. But I'd like to hear the in-game explanation to that. How do they know? Why can't I tell my gunners to pretend to suck when they're being evaluated by the Evan Equality and Fairness Bureau? Darkwind: 2053 everyone will finally be equal. Also gameplay wise, it's a bit meh, if people are willing to risk their awesome gunners in pvp then it's their business and they should be allowed to. I think most people wouldn't anyway, but the higher the stakes the more exiting it is for me. If character skills matter so much that it's impossible to beat someone with higher skilled characters, then maybe character skills should be nerfed to hell rebalanced so the game is all about level grinding and not tactics/skill. Also if you want to make it "fair" using that kind of system then it should probably be capped by total weapon skill not individual skill (gunnery+ballistics+large guns) because someone with 3 skills at 50+ has 3 specialisms and is significantly more useful than someone with just one skill at 50. You should also cap courage to cover everything since winning depends on surrendering. ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted Feb 21, 2010, 10:35 am Last edited Feb 21, 2010, 10:48 am by Alocalypse

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 *sam* said: BTW we're most likely going to restrict the leagues running this year to Div 5 and Div 4, due to lack on entries. Anyone already registered to higher leagues will be refunded. Now wait just a second here, cant you restrict it 1 - 3 - 5 instead or something? Some of us have already made plans... and some of us does not have gangers in the 60 - 90 skill range... every guy I use that isnt below 30 is over 100, so this would just be mean... Also, we already made plans  ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:20 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 FireFly said: *sam* said: BTW we're most likely going to restrict the leagues running this year to Div 5 and Div 4, due to lack on entries. Anyone already registered to higher leagues will be refunded. Now wait just a second here, cant you restrict it 1 - 3 - 5 instead or something? Some of us have already made plans... and some of us does not have gangers in the 60 - 90 skill range... every guy I use that isnt below 30 is over 100, so this would just be mean... Also, we already made plans  Sure, we could restrict it to 1 - 3 - 5, but what about the people who made plans to be in Div 4? It's not ideal I know FF, but what's the point of making plans if you're the only team in the division? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:37 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Longo has a squad in division 1 My point is thou, if you want to restrict them, have the highest one free, and the lowest one free, not just forcing everything to fight in the lowest tiers. Cause, again, neither of the guys on my team and me have proper lower skilled characters, and I bet others would have that issue to... Anyway, I think there will be some pretty fierce competition in Div 1 ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Feb 21, 2010, 2:43 pm Last edited Feb 21, 2010, 2:44 pm by FireFly

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