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About the league system
*Zothen*
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Hello!

(first: sorry for my crappy english, but Im not a native speaker)

Ive been racing with you for a week now and I really started to love this game! Right now Im just waiting that paypal allows me to buy my subscription.

Ive done a bunch of races before I had a look at the mechanics of the league system and imo the system that takes the average points made in a week is a very nice idea.

Basicly its made to allow players who play not very often to join the leagues equally. This is a good approach, but while it balances players wo play seldom, it is also quite unfair.

Players who race all the week long get their average points, but other players can just make one single race and get all the points from this race.

Some players need to race (money, skill...) and others dont! So players who dont need to race make only one race and might stop racing for the rest of the week (going scouting, missioning, etc.). And its quite easy to get a 1st pos in a single, well-selected game, but its not as easy to hold the 1st pos for e.g. 15-20 races (at this time I made 2of2 1st pos. this week...).


This unbalances the leagues, because even an unexperienced driver, with a little bit luck, can make a single 1st pos. in a race/DR and so the leagues are not about skill but are influenced by a too big bunch of luck on one side (the single race racers) and the problem of unluck, if you miss just two first positions out of 10 races, on the other side!

In fact, a driver who makes eight 1st positions out of 10 races can be called a good driver, but a winner of a single race might just be a lucky hotshot! The difference is that the good driver gets less than 20 pts. and the hotshot gets them all! He gets the full pay for *not attending* any longer! Fair?

I would suggest that a minimum number of races is needed to get your points entered to the league! I think a number of 5-10 races should be fine. In my opinion at least 5 races are not to much for players who want to compete in a league, but 10 would give a better average of the players skills. The league would come closer to be a league of competion by skill than by luck.

Its also not impossible to count the points in when a driver has not the necessary number of races made, but not with their full value/average.


What do you think?
Thanks!
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vet marshal wv

Posted Jun 18, 2007, 2:40 pm
Alocalypse
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I pretty much agree, but this has come up before and it's been quite throughly discussed and no one really has come up with a vastly better solution that still balanced casuals and no-lifers in the leagues.

Links to past threads:
http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=404
http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=940
http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=1017
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Jun 18, 2007, 2:42 pm
*Zothen*
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damn! Im sorry guys, havent noticed the other threads! My fault!
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vet marshal wv

Posted Jun 18, 2007, 3:11 pm
Alocalypse
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No problem, they were discussed a bit before you joined and dropped off the first page(s), but I thought I'd point them out so you're not too surprised to get a slightly negative reception because of that.
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Jun 18, 2007, 3:16 pm
MerryWalrus
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I used to think along those lines, but then i though, what (apart from the title) do you get from winning the league? The prize money can be won many times over from just racing more often. It is over 12 weeks after all. So it's not really a viable income source just racing once a week.
I guess all you win is some in-game status and sme pixels by your name.

There is an element of skill as well, due to it again being over 12 weeks, the player must be consistantly good over that period of time, so luck isn't the biggest factor, they could also completely #### up a race but not have time to do another.
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vet ped2

Posted Jun 18, 2007, 6:47 pm
*Zothen*
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MerryWalrus said:
I used to think along those lines, but then i though, what (apart from the title) do you get from winning the league? The prize money can be won many times over from just racing more often. It is over 12 weeks after all. So it's not really a viable income source just racing once a week.
I guess all you win is some in-game status and sme pixels by your name.


Dont get me wrong, but do you really want to tell me that you dont understand why millions of peoples around the (usually western) world  compete for positions on ladders, boards, stats without the need to earn their money from it or stuff like this???

Do you think all those e-sport gamers are wrong and have no goal for themselves? Or do you think they are wrong because they are simply happy with seeing their name in on a "list/table"?
I dont think that you are thinking this way, so you made absolutly no argument!
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vet marshal wv

Posted Jun 19, 2007, 10:01 am Last edited Jun 19, 2007, 10:02 am by Zothen
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I'll probably be increasing the league prizes for the next game year, by the way. The prizes as they stand used to be substantial, but with all the wilderness activity going on now they're out of date.
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marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013

Posted Jun 19, 2007, 10:36 am
*viKKing*
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I've pinned this thread because it is one of the other Frequently Requested suggestions.
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vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv

Posted Jun 19, 2007, 10:39 am
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my two cents..again! not going to find a balance between casual and hard core in one league. solution is two leagues! 15 races (or whatever number is decided upon as casual) and under and you appear in league 1, once you hit 30 (or whatever number is decided upon as hard core) for the week you get bumped into league 1A. everyone ends up competing against others who have about the same activity level.
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vet

Posted Aug 6, 2007, 8:08 pm
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The dual league thing is a good idea... to expand on the idea, perhaps you have to come in the top 3 (or 5, or some other number) in the league to graduate out of the rookie leagues. Make the cycle of the rookie leagues much shorter, like say 3 weeks instead of 12 or something.
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vet wv

Posted Aug 6, 2007, 9:59 pm
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Maybe you should be able to "opt-out" so not every race counts to your average. Say you have a 40pt average, and theres a 28p race going, if youre going hard in the league, you wouldnt join that race..
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vet deathrceL1 gateautumn raceL1 semiprocombat race1 deathrce1 combat1 wv

Posted Aug 8, 2007, 10:44 pm
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The problem with that being, the really killer racers could win one good event and then opt out for the rest of the week... negatively impacting everyone else's averages without affecting their own.
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vet wv

Posted Aug 8, 2007, 11:45 pm
*Zothen*
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Perhaps different prices for leagues? A general price for the league (like now) and weekly prizes for the highest points achieved?
Sorry, but I stopped league racing, because imo its broken! I hoped for a change before the new leagues started, but... Its no fun to compete against people who have all the time in the world to wait for the biggest race in the week! I thought DW should also be playable with a small timescale??
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vet marshal wv

Posted Aug 11, 2007, 9:55 pm
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*Zothen* said:
Its no fun to compete against people who have all the time in the world to wait for the biggest race in the week! I thought DW should also be playable with a small timescale??


I still don't think this is the case, looking at last years league race scores the points average over 12 races wasn't that much over 20p (though it'll probably be higher this year) so if you're consistant and usually win races you can do well even without joining the high-scoring races...
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Posted Aug 11, 2007, 10:17 pm
*sam*
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I don't want to have any kind of opting out of getting points in a race, or of counting only your best result in the week, since it's important that every race has the potential to knock down your points. Otherwise you have a dangerous situation where people can enter races purely to mess other people up.

I think the idea of leagues having an overall prize plus another for weekly points total might work, although the latter will strongly favour people who have lots of time. What about this: all league races count towards two leagues, one of which is the same as now and the other of which adds up your points scored in the first 5 (or 10?) events per week.

The other possibility is to bring back non-league events, or of having lots more professional events...?
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Posted Aug 11, 2007, 10:44 pm
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I doubt the highest weekly points total idea will get much support unless there was something to make it less of a grind.

Also I don't think the first 5-10 events league would be different enough from the first one and it'd require too much activity and since activity is part of the problem because people feel like they need to hold out until high point races to stand a chance I don't think it'd help much.

I'd like to see something totally different from what we have now like giving the "Saturday Evening League" type leagues another go, so there's just one race per week where you can get points so it works like a realistic league would.

I think having more non-league events could make it harder for less active people to get into higher scoring league races and would actually probably work the opposite to solving the problem...
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:09 pm
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1 race per week would be impossible to do...thngs like differing time zones...limited spots...etc


would love to see a lot more pro events tho ^^

also i would think that it should be 20 points max for a win...just raise the prize $ for multiple vet races...gives too much of an advantage to 1 time zone i think
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marshal vet race1 elmsautumn wv

Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:17 pm Last edited Aug 11, 2007, 11:26 pm by *Toecutter*
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*Toecutter* said:
1 race per week would be impossible to do...thngs like differing time zones...limited spots...etc


I guess you could have a poll before starting them up to see when the most people could attend them and have leagues for the top 3-4 times.

And for limited spots there's time trials.
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vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont

Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:22 pm
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I agree with you Toe, but maybe it could be focused on a complete day instead, and it could be a different league.

That could probably be a lot, but why not, even performing all 3 events in 24 hours - or during week-ends? only 48 hours to complete events?
That could be the league of the day of glory or whatever. Maybe it would attrack more non subscribers people at once.
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Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:24 pm
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*Alocalypse* said:

I guess you could have a poll before starting them up to see when the most people could attend them and have leagues for the top 3-4 times.

And for limited spots there's time trials.


this is the problem right here...have to have it for all people.
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marshal vet race1 elmsautumn wv

Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:28 pm
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