Pages: << prev 1, 2, 3, 4 next >>

League points, This really needs to be reevaluated

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Let's just make it so the only way you score points is showing up and actually winning a match. It doesn't matter if it's one point of 500, that way. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 4:14 am

d0dger an0maly Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,492 Joined: Jan 24, 2010 Joel Autobaun said: Let's just make it so the only way you score points is showing up and actually winning a match.  It doesn't matter if it's one point of 500, that way.   The problem is then you get a meta game where your opponents don't show to your matches, solely to deprive you of league points. Probably because someone bribed them to, or to grief you.   The current scoring works fine, and unless/until Sam changes how no shows are dealt with it's the best possible system. ......................... vet wv combat1 combatL1 paintladder pvp5 sssc deathrceL1 pvp4 zom race1 semiprocombat deathrce1 raceL1 pvp3 pvp2 ww pvp1 paintball santa2 gwped4,16,10 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 6:45 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 no you still get points if they don't show. You just don't get points for showing up and losing...which could also be metagame'd ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 7:14 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 d0dger said:   Well actually, if it were scored the way you are proposing, you'd be still be losing to the same guy, because you'd both have 1 less point... and the same gap you have now?   Because, you got one point for your loss against him? (even though it was a time mixup on your part, and not an actual fight)   Unless you're proposing that no points are awarded to someone when their opponent fails to show up? In which case, I continue to disagree. i am propsoing that only agreed match times launch games... that only matches that were played score points. on that basis i would have 2 points.. coolerheads would have 0 and joels team would be winning with 2 and a game in hand. if you are SERIOUSLY suggesting that someone who has won the sum total of 0 games whould be winning a league then frankly you are mental. EDIT.. screw it.. its just another broken bit... if it were not giving wilderness advantages to people who i may end up in combat with I wouldnt give a ####... as it is I might as well just drop out and save myself the aggrovation of trying to explain things to people who cant follow basic stuff. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 12:01 pm Last edited Sep 12, 2010, 12:07 pm by goat starer

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 goat starer said: d0dger said:   Well actually, if it were scored the way you are proposing, you'd be still be losing to the same guy, because you'd both have 1 less point... and the same gap you have now?   Because, you got one point for your loss against him? (even though it was a time mixup on your part, and not an actual fight)   Unless you're proposing that no points are awarded to someone when their opponent fails to show up? In which case, I continue to disagree. i am propsoing that only agreed match times launch games... that only matches that were played score points. on that basis i would have 2 points.. coolerheads would have 0 and joels team would be winning with 2 and a game in hand. if you are SERIOUSLY suggesting that someone who has won the sum total of 0 games whould be winning a league then frankly you are mental. EDIT.. screw it.. its just another broken bit... if it were not giving wilderness advantages to people who i may end up in combat with I wouldnt give a ####... as it is I might as well just drop out and save myself the aggrovation of trying to explain things to people who cant follow basic stuff. You should get something for showing.  But definately, weigh the played games WAY more than un-played. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 12:18 pm

d0dger an0maly Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,492 Joined: Jan 24, 2010 goat starer said: on that basis i would have 2 points.. coolerheads would have 0 and joels team would be winning with 2 and a game in hand. Right, you would have more points, because more of your opponents bothered to show up, and less of his did. You keep pointing out that he's only played ONE match. The fact that he's only gotten the chance to play ONE match, that's not his doing. Goat, I can follow this 'basic stuff'. I understand how the league and the scoring works, and even why. I understand that the current scoring gives every team the same chances to earn the same number of points every week, regardless of wether their opponents show up or not. I also understand that it advances a team for showing up and fighting even if they lose, over those that don't show up. I understand that that makes for a fair competition between players, which is what this league provides more than anything else in the game, since it's the only place (other the FP events, bless you Goat) that has skill cap limits to give you even ground on the gangers skills front as well. I also understand that the reason Splash has 2 more points than you is because you got times mixed up and didn't make it to your match with him. If you'd shown up and kicked his ass, your scores would be reversed, and it'd be you and kometen neck and neck vying for first in that division, just as it should be. And in that case we probably wouldn't be having this conversation at all, because you're whingeing over your current placement in the league, not the overall fairness or accuracy of the scoring system. I've got a lot of respect for you Goat, and I hope you can read this and we can still be friends, but I've got to call it like I see it. I'm not saying the current scoring is perfect or can't be improved, but it does give every teams the same fair chance for the same points every week, on an even footing with both CR allowed and skill of gangers brought. If it changes it needs to remain fair and not penalize someone's chances in the league based on their opponents showing up for the match or not. We've really got bigger fish to fry. Why have only 8 of the 23 matches so far in div V been actually played out? How can we address all those no shows with the scoring, without penalizing the people that did show up to fight against them? Solve that with the scoring and we solve your concerns too. ......................... vet wv combat1 combatL1 paintladder pvp5 sssc deathrceL1 pvp4 zom race1 semiprocombat deathrce1 raceL1 pvp3 pvp2 ww pvp1 paintball santa2 gwped4,16,10 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 1:58 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 d0dger said: goat starer said: on that basis i would have 2 points.. coolerheads would have 0 and joels team would be winning with 2 and a game in hand. Right, you would have more points, because more of your opponents bothered to show up, and less of his did. You keep pointing out that he's only played ONE match. The fact that he's only gotten the chance to play ONE match, that's not his doing. Goat, I can follow this 'basic stuff'. I understand how the league and the scoring works, and even why. I understand that the current scoring gives every team the same chances to earn the same number of points every week, regardless of wether their opponents show up or not. I also understand that it advances a team for showing up and fighting even if they lose, over those that don't show up. I understand that that makes for a fair competition between players, which is what this league provides more than anything else in the game, since it's the only place (other the FP events, bless you Goat) that has skill cap limits to give you even ground on the gangers skills front as well. I also understand that the reason Splash has 2 more points than you is because you got times mixed up and didn't make it to your match with him. If you'd shown up and kicked his ass, your scores would be reversed, and it'd be you and kometen neck and neck vying for first in that division, just as it should be. And in that case we probably wouldn't be having this conversation at all, because you're whingeing over your current placement in the league, not the overall fairness or accuracy of the scoring system. I've got a lot of respect for you Goat, and I hope you can read this and we can still be friends, but I've got to call it like I see it. I'm not saying the current scoring is perfect or can't be improved, but it does give every teams the same fair chance for the same points every week, on an even footing with both CR allowed and skill of gangers brought. If it changes it needs to remain fair and not penalize someone's chances in the league based on their opponents showing up for the match or not. We've really got bigger fish to fry. Why have only 8 of the 23 matches so far in div V been actually played out? How can we address all those no shows with the scoring, without penalizing the people that did show up to fight against them? Solve that with the scoring and we solve your concerns too. dude... this is not about whether i win a league. Its about whether a scoring system that will let someone win who hasn't wopn a single game is sensible. At the end of the day only sam and joel turned up for matches against me. I think its wrong that i got points for a 'win' against a team who didnt make the time. I think its wrong that i got points for lots of stuff. Its not just this league.. its accross all of them.. and if you think i give a flying #### at a rolling dougnut whether i win a league then you clearly dont know very much about me. I am particularly annoyed with splash because I made a bloody great effort to agree a time with him,s sending him a whole bunch of PMs and suggestions without recieving a single reply till after the event time. BUt that is not the point.. that will be dealt with by me sending bounty hunters after him till i score a big hit. You cant have a league that lets people who havnt won anything win... its complete insanity... most leagues make a win score much more than a draw to avoid exactly that. its simple... really simple... kick people from the league if they dont make 2 meetings... force teams to have more than one member (one person is likely to be unable to turn up from time to time)... give points for wins then weight them by the number of times you actually showed up to get a final score to get a league position.. something like that. but a league that lets someone 'win' when they cant beat anyone is daft. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 2:47 pm Last edited Sep 12, 2010, 3:01 pm by goat starer

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Goat I can't agree with no points for showing up and your opponent does not show. That is like the Ladder leagues(where it's hard for me to find opponents for some of them). I simply think one should only score points for a "win" even a win by default. Scoring points for losing is not good. I know it was to encourage people to at least show, but frankly you are not going to win if you don't show. I'm not sure about kicking people for 2 consecutive no-shows. you might have a situation where a NA player faces off against a European Player(s), two weeks in a row and both "agreed times" (the average) puts that guy into double default because he won't skip work to make a video game match. As it is you lose CR points(tie breaker) when you don't show. Maybe you should lose points if you set a squad and don't show. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 6:44 pm Last edited Sep 12, 2010, 6:49 pm by Joel Autobaun

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Joel Autobaun said: Goat I can't agree with no points for showing up and your opponent does not show.  That is like the Ladder leagues(where it's hard for me to find opponents for some of them). I simply think one should only score points for a "win" even a win by default.  Scoring points for losing is not good.  I know it was to encourage people to at least show, but frankly you are not going to win if you don't show.  I'm not sure about kicking people for 2 consecutive no-shows.  you might have a situation where a NA player faces off against a European Player(s), two weeks in a row and both "agreed times" (the average) puts that guy into double default because he won't skip work to make a video game match. As it is you lose CR points(tie breaker) when you don't show.  Maybe you should lose points if you set a squad and don't show. you deal with no shows by disqualification or other penalties AGAINST the no show.... not by 'free' points... its open to stupid amounts of abuse ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 9:09 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 ARRGG this sucks! I Don't want points for NO shows, I don't want points for losing! That's basically it. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 9:44 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Joel Autobaun said: ARRGG this sucks!  I Don't want points for NO shows,  I don't want points for losing! That's basically it. so you dont want the current system... not clear what you do want? ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 12, 2010, 11:48 pm

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 In the RC I posted similar concerns and suggestions to fix the problems with the current combat league back in April of this year, but Sam disagreed with my suggestions. LF said: Quote: 1 – Award no points to any team if both teams are unable to complete the match. This would encourage both teams to try and work out a time to actually have the battle. No team should be awarded 2 points for just setting up a squad. Getting 2 points for actually having a battle, risking your characters and equipment is a good thing. Getting 2 points for doing absolutely nothing is a bad thing, at best if points must still be awarded, it should be 1 point at most for a forfeit. Considering if both teams do show up they could end up splitting the match at 1 point each, it makes no sense that those who actually have the match could come away with less points than a team that just shows up and claims points due to a forfiet. 2 – Have the server set a warning date with time both teams need to schedule a match by, example- match time set no latter than Sat 2300. If neither team can agree on a time to have their pvp match by the server warn date/time, the server randomly sets a match time for Sunday from 0000-2300. Next issue: The schedule system is too restrictive on the suggested times you would like to have your pvp battles. It only allows you to change the suggested time to no more than 10 days prior to the default server date. So if I your pvp battle against Team X is scheduled 3 weeks from today and team X is sitting in the lobby ready and able to do the pvp battle, the league schedule system will not allow you and Team X to have the pvp battle because the battle has to be played within 10 days of the default date. But in 3 weeks time Team X and/or you may not be able to have the pvp battle for whatever reason. Suggested fix: Once paired against each other, allow teams to schedule a pvp battle any time within the league season. Basically have no default server time the match must be completed by, which could also help with issue one as it would open up more days to select from. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Sep 13, 2010, 1:30 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 goat starer said: Joel Autobaun said: ARRGG this sucks!  I Don't want points for NO shows,  I don't want points for losing! That's basically it. so you dont want the current system... not clear what you do want? Just no more points for losing.  Scrap the 1 point given for losing. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Sep 13, 2010, 3:20 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 LF.. those look like sensible suggestions... but i would simply have no match scheduled if both parties cannot agree a time. people need to be thrown out of leagues if they fail to show for matches. I have 2 games left.. both against people who have never turned up for a single game... do I a) turn up and wait at teh scheduled times just in case they set a squad? or b) risk handing 3 points to them by being absent? frankly i have better things to do than hang around waiting for no shows. ABSOLUTELY agree that you should be able to launch your PVP at any time if both parties agree it. Joel - absolutely scrap teh 1 point for losing.. but there is simply no reason for giving points to a team for just being in teh lobby either. If soemone wants to ignore their PMs or deliberately avoid rescheduling so they dont have to fight why should they get a point for turning up at a time they KNEW their opponent (who did make an effort to reschedule) cant make. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 13, 2010, 9:28 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Lord Foul said: In the RC I posted similar concerns and suggestions to fix the problems with the current combat league back in April of this year, but Sam disagreed with my suggestions. LF said: Quote: 1 – Award no points to any team if both teams are unable to complete the match. This would encourage both teams to try and work out a time to actually have the battle. No team should be awarded 2 points for just setting up a squad. Getting 2 points for actually having a battle, risking your characters and equipment is a good thing. Getting 2 points for doing absolutely nothing is a bad thing, at best if points must still be awarded, it should be 1 point at most for a forfeit. Considering if both teams do show up they could end up splitting the match at 1 point each, it makes no sense that those who actually have the match could come away with less points than a team that just shows up and claims points due to a forfiet. 2 – Have the server set a warning date with time both teams need to schedule a match by, example- match time set no latter than Sat 2300. If neither team can agree on a time to have their pvp match by the server warn date/time, the server randomly sets a match time for Sunday from 0000-2300. Next issue: The schedule system is too restrictive on the suggested times you would like to have your pvp battles. It only allows you to change the suggested time to no more than 10 days prior to the default server date. So if I your pvp battle against Team X is scheduled 3 weeks from today and team X is sitting in the lobby ready and able to do the pvp battle, the league schedule system will not allow you and Team X to have the pvp battle because the battle has to be played within 10 days of the default date. But in 3 weeks time Team X and/or you may not be able to have the pvp battle for whatever reason. Suggested fix: Once paired against each other, allow teams to schedule a pvp battle any time within the league season. Basically have no default server time the match must be completed by, which could also help with issue one as it would open up more days to select from. Award no point if both teams cannot complete the match. I am fighting Player A...and he sees I am winning the league, so he opts to not fight me so I dont get any points...or I am supposed to fight FF, who takes another Sabbatical...I get no points.... Surely not fair to me... ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Sep 13, 2010, 4:35 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 longo.. if you are winning the league why would someone behind you choose not to fight you when fighting you is the ONLY way to narrow the gap? If you award points for matches that dont take place then the leader has an incentive if their lead gets high enough to simply not turn up for matches. If I am in second and i will get a point out of not playing someone above me it might be worth my while.. if i get nothing... and a strike towards disqualification... i might as well buck my ideas up and play the tie. FF takes a sabbatical.. he gets disqualified... ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 13, 2010, 5:00 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 goat starer said: longo.. if you are winning the league why would someone behind you choose not to fight you when fighting you is the ONLY way to narrow the gap? If you award points for matches that dont take place then the leader has an incentive if their lead gets high enough to simply not turn up for matches. If I am in second and i will get a point out of not playing someone above me it might be worth my while.. if i get nothing... and a strike towards disqualification... i might as well buck my ideas up and play the tie. FF takes a sabbatical.. he gets disqualified... 2 teams supporting the same camp, in the same league. Im tied with one of them, and have to fight the second. They discuss it, and decide that the one team wont show for the event so I get no points and their camp bud wins. And yea, I agree with the disqual ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Sep 13, 2010, 8:56 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 longo... the idea that there can be 2 teams supporting the same camp in a league is in itself a problem.. perhaps you have hit on something really good... it should be camps that join leagues not individual players... anyone from the camp can play.. the camp decides... can be in several leagues so newer players play in div 5... real vets in div 1. would solve lots of stuff.... i mean camps already manage their camp attacks fine and its camps that benefit from PVP... ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Sep 13, 2010, 11:11 pm

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 From an outsiders point of view of one with concern (but little to no real experience) these sound like some sensible solutions. But, if the above were to apply, could Div 5 be excluded from the camp run squads idea, just to act as incentive into PvP for newer players or those that are too cowardly (as in me, I'm the first to admit it) to get into PvP in other ways, and wave the camp production bonuses for Div 5, training bonus and money reward only. (I guess this makes it really confusing with who goes up into div 4 etc... I was just thinking out loud. ) I've been thinking of a way to note the efforts a player may make to arrange a time. Could this be done via some sort of time auction or similar in the web page, rather than with PMs that are hard to prove or follow for a mediator. I see that it is done roughly this way already, but for the circumstance where neither will agree on a time, some way of forcing a choice, rather than just a random time as stated above by LF. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Sep 14, 2010, 2:18 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 goat starer said: longo... the idea that there can be 2 teams supporting the same camp in a league is in itself a problem.. perhaps you have hit on something really good... it should be camps that join leagues not individual players... anyone from the camp can play.. the camp decides... can be in several leagues so newer players play in div 5... real vets in div 1. would solve lots of stuff.... i mean camps already manage their camp attacks fine and its camps that benefit from PVP... Good point goat, there is actually a team that supports LV that I wasnt even aware of, or didnt "sanction" but when this was brought to the RC, I didnt get any support for a change.... Im on 2 teams, my team in D1 and another in D3, so I am a major participant, but gotta say Im pretty frustrated. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Sep 14, 2010, 5:05 am

Pages: << prev 1, 2, 3, 4 next >>

Powered by MercuryBoard [v1.1.4]
© 2001-2005 The Mercury Development Team

0.1842 seconds - 30 queries - 0.42 load