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Discussion on set up circle, *moved from bugs*

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Actually, if you have a high skill scout (Larger circle) you can on some maps actually have the enemy spawn inside your circle when going after traders. On the GW gates you can actually spawn slightly in front of the escort vehicles,. I had an event were I actually spawned merged with some of them once. But that's just because traders like to spawn diagonally, maybe I should make a bug thread about that, its way to common. ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Jan 12, 2011, 3:11 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Yeah the traders bug is just a whole other issue... lol ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Jan 12, 2011, 3:26 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 How close b4 you notice this guy? We got old graphics, we gotta use our imaginations: ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Jan 12, 2011, 4:23 pm Last edited Jan 12, 2011, 4:26 pm by Joel Autobaun

Gorde Traction Action Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 396 Joined: Dec 4, 2010 Jose, dodger, you fellas are either trying to be difficult, or you have serious issues with rational thought.  You're defenses are so weak, they are nonsense, but I will give you the courtesy of taking them seriously for the moment. BTW, I have watched the first 2 turns of Syn's encounter, and as a new guy, I am appalled that it could happen--literally a head-on collision in turn 1 that trashes his car.  Anyone foolish enough to claim that's a good game design and keep a straight face? In all post-apocalyptic scenarios, survival instinct rules the day--anyone without good instincts has long since perished or is certainly not allowed behind the wheel, and kids would have learned in their first decade of life the perils of being careless.  So trying to use boulders or other tiny road terrain simply won't fly. I realize this is a futile line of thought, because we're talking about a game mechanic rather than something that needs to (or even should) be realistic, so it's less of a waste of time to focus on that. Thanks for replying, Sam, and for your good input, Korn.  I agree--why not have separate circles for minimum enemy spawn and maximum player spawn?  I don't see how this would make it too easy (I lost a couple guys before I knew you could shift around inside that circle), and since then I've prevented a few more losses by using it intelligently.  How is that too easy?  There's plenty of other chances for bad luck or choices to blow your plans. Like most, I realize the nearly insurmountable challenges of programming sharp AI, and kidding aside (with the hooked-on-crack comment), if they were much better, the game would be an even bigger series of deathtraps waiting to happen.  And the amount of players who'd stick around would be far smaller, despite so many other features being inspired/touch-of-genius.  And that's the holy grail of game design, right?  To get players to stick around and enjoy the challenges? So much of this game is outstanding design work--it doesn't take much observation to see the high level of thought and tweaking that's gone into the game, and most of it enhances the challenge of game play.  So, I respectfully submit that your (Sam's) trying to defend a broken mechanic on the grounds that it'd otherwise be too easy is not productive thinking. I never intended to make you defensive about your game--I was empathizing with Syn's loss (unlike most of the sorry showing of posts--do people actually think it's a good trait to kick someone when they're down, or defend a bug just for the sake a playing devil's advocate?  Do they trick themselves into thinking they are clever?).  I apologize if I gave you the impression I was ragging on your game--as much as anyone here, I'd like to see it smooth, challenging/deadly, oh, and fun.  I take it on faith that you cannot justify a head-on at turn 1 as being fun, so can we try to fix it so Syn's scenario cannot possibly happen?  Could we set the minimum AI starting circle to be wider so there's no overlap?  If not, a note at the beginning would at least (for the moment) give them unfair warning. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 paintball Posted Jan 12, 2011, 4:36 pm

Gorde Traction Action Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 396 Joined: Dec 4, 2010 Joel Autobaun said: How close b4 you notice this guy? *Heh, so how's a grainy, old picture of a car sitting still in hiding representative of anything in this game?  If you put the cars at zero speed hiding around a no-line-of-sight obstacle, then sure. We got old graphics, we gotta use our imaginations: *But let's not turn off the rational mind when dabbling in imagination, how about? ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 paintball Posted Jan 12, 2011, 4:40 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 This is far from a bug thread at present *Moved to suggestion section* Grograt - Moderator ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Jan 12, 2011, 4:47 pm Last edited Jan 12, 2011, 4:51 pm by *Grograt*

Checkers Axis of Weevils Autodueller Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: Jul 17, 2010 Kornkob The Dude said: Has anyone dug up the event Syn was in to see what he was faced with?  I might try doing that when I get home today.  Seems to me that might help clarify the situation a bit, either validating his contention that we didn't understand what he was faced with or validating the observation that taking up an 'edge' position is a risk.  Actually, I looked at the event. What happened was that Synyster put his car at the very edge of the spawn circle, as close to Gateway's gates as he could, and got caught in a three-way ambush. One of these three cars was a Phoenix, which was barrelling at him and Zephar and spawned about 5m from Synyster's car, giving him no time to swerve out of the way. Both Synyster and the Phoenix were going at about 30 mph, head on into one another. Synyster's car caught on fire and Synyster's car and guys took significant flame damage as they rolled back to town. Zephar, when I spoke to him, was especially upset at the fact that Syn's car caught on fire in spite of being fully armoured up front, having an unexposed engine and taking no weapons fire. This, he said, went against the "rules" of flame/burn damage, as he knew them. He cited the Wiki, but I have no idea how long it's been since it was updated and couldn't find any information there when I searched it. For those making this a role-playing question, this was on the Interstate just outside of Gateway. There were no visibility issues. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 12, 2011, 6:13 pm Last edited Jan 12, 2011, 6:16 pm by Checkers

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 Checkers said: For those making this a role-playing question, this was on the Interstate just outside of Gateway. There were no visibility issues. Before you write off the role play..... Joe's been driving since noon, when the boss threw him in the car. "I don't give a crap if you are hung over--- you got the Gateway run." Joe opened his mouth to spit something back but, catching the hard edge of the boss' eye, decided against it.  Hours into the drive Joe's Gunner taps his shoulder and points into the distance.  "What's that, Joe?" "Dunno".  Joe peers into the distance and starts to veer away from the 2 inbound clouds of dust.  "Could be a small scout"  Joe squints his eyes and leans across the gunner to peer out the side window.  "JOE LOOK OUT!" Joe snaps his head up just in time to see a pirate Pho coming directly out of the setting sun immediately in front of him.  "Oooohh, Shiiiii"  *crunc* So, yeah.  Not hard to workup a scenario where someone, even a seasoned vet, might overlook something coming up that close.  As far as the fire 'rules'-- I've never seen any and AFAIK the wiki is 'unofficial'.  Falling back on reality, every car fire I have ever seen was caused by one of 2 things: someone's cigarette (not relevant here) or a high speed collision and the resulting vehicle damage (which is exactly what you described.  ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 13, 2011, 2:47 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Gorde said: *Heh, so how's a grainy, old picture of a car sitting still in hiding representative of anything in this game?  If you put the cars at zero speed hiding around a no-line-of-sight obstacle, then sure. *But let's not turn off the rational mind when dabbling in imagination, how about? Take another look, it's a tank. Most of the time the head-on close up encounter is the result of a new player using a poor scout ...way down south.  It's like taking a bunny to the wolf's lair. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Jan 13, 2011, 3:31 pm

*Rev. V* Cestus Dei Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 3,208 Joined: Aug 4, 2010 "every car fire I have ever seen was caused by one of 2 things: someone's cigarette (not relevant here) or a high speed collision and the resulting vehicle damage (which is exactly what you described." Engine compartment fires are nasty. Once plastic/rubber catches, it's REALLY tough to extinguish. I've seen more than a few where bad wiring was the cause, including a friend's dad's corvette. And wow was THAT crazy....do you guys know how long it takes a 70's vette to get fully involved? Once that body catches...holy crap.... 10 minutes later it was just a blob of melted..."used to be a vette"... ......................... vet wv zom marshal paintladder cont Posted Jan 13, 2011, 3:35 pm

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 I imagine your buddy's dad's face also melted..... into sadness.  I've never seen one caused by an electrical problem but I had a buddy that lost his car because a heat shield had fallen off partially and the underbody caught fire from the sparks kicked off by the shield rubbing on the drive shaft.  CDs were really really new then and he had a huge collection (for the time) and lost them all except the one in his CD boom box (a rarity in its own right) which he salvaged as he bailed out. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 13, 2011, 4:07 pm Last edited Jan 13, 2011, 4:10 pm by Kornkob The Dude

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 I use the circle for tactical set up. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. It's a gamble. It may seem strange that an enemy vehicle can suddenly teleport in front of you, but I have been in the unfortunate position of it happening in real life. One minute the road ahead was clear, pretty girl goes past, next minute I'm leaving a rubber trail and sliding sideways trying to avoid the car that I swear wasn't there seconds before. My concentration loss was a few seconds. In those seconds I moved a hundred yards. Outside a hundred yards my brain obviously wasn't processing the presence of another vehicle as it was outside my threat zone. In mitigation, I was tired, I was close to home and she was quite distracting. I can imagine a driver on the last leg of the run into gateway, having been on high alert all the way who has let his concentration lapse (by choosing to put himself on the edge of the circle). His mind mentally blocks out the oncoming vehicle (as it is coming from the direction of home and is threfore friendly) and focuses on the trailing vehicles as more of a threat (being more toward the wilderness and therefore baddies.) These judgements are not measured, they are subconcious and sometimes our subconcious tricks us. A disproportionate number of soldiers on active service are killed in the weeks before they return home as their guard drops so close to safety. As gamers we have the advantage of spending long seconds deciding our next move. We forget our electronic alter-egos don't have that luxury. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Jan 13, 2011, 8:52 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 I love this thread. I haven't learned anything new, but it does validate one of my deep DW convictions: money can buy you a laser but can't buy you the talent to use it properly. I'm not saying your laser could have saved you from yourself if used properly, I'm just saying you aren't sufficiently familiar with the DW quirks to be risking a laser south of SS. Sorry for your loss. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Jan 14, 2011, 8:19 am Last edited Jan 14, 2011, 8:19 am by Groove Champion

Karz Master Alpha Junkers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 2,375 Joined: Nov 13, 2006 It's not an unreasonable decision to allow cars to spawn in close proximity to the circle, though I would think it's probably even more helpful to explain it to people that the circle isn't meant for "tactical" purposes. Having a short message in the text box might better clarify its intents. That being said, there's also a need to fix certain spawn points, like Elmsfield gates, when the enemies sometimes spawn inside your cars if you put them near the border of the circle. Kornkob The Dude said: I've never seen one caused by an electrical problem but I had a buddy that lost his car because a heat shield had fallen off partially and the underbody caught fire from the sparks kicked off by the shield rubbing on the drive shaft.  CDs were really really new then and he had a huge collection (for the time) and lost them all except the one in his CD boom box (a rarity in its own right) which he salvaged as he bailed out. How much Mech skill did he gain after that? ......................... vet wv zom Posted Jan 14, 2011, 8:38 am

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 Karz Master said: How much Mech skill did he gain after that? None but he was a sad panda for a long time--- the CDs were worth more than the car..... and his auto insurance didn't cover them (had no renters/homeowners insurance).  The car was an early 70s Chevelle.  ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 14, 2011, 4:11 pm

Oscoda The Chargers Racer Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: Jan 31, 2010 Don't know why I can reply to a thread in the 'locked' forum, but after viewing the incident, my main question is: why didn't the badlander take any major damage? It was virtually identical cars hitting each other. Edit: I see it was moved out of 'locked'. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 21, 2011, 4:54 pm Last edited Jan 21, 2011, 5:05 pm by Oscoda

Jake Nikodemus Garage Boyz Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 12, 2009 d0dger said: Synyster Gates said: I'm not "crying" about what I lost... it's how I lost it... Yes, I may seem like a little baby whining over a Laser right? Well I'm 15... To most of you guys I basically am a baby... So think what you want, all I'm saying is there should be something restricting that specific situation from ever happening again... Not what I lost, how I lost it... I absolutely disagree, and it's these losses that are exactly why this game rocks and isn't exactly the same as ever other no real or lasting consequences game out there. It's also why we have lots of gangers and lots of cars... even when you lose your 'best' you've always got more. You'll probably cool down and be back to play more later. If not this game probably isn't the right entertainment choice for you. I wish I had something unique to contribute, but d0dger pretty much nailed it.  I wouldn't suggest quitting, but practically everyone that has played the game for any length of time has had similar instances of what I call the "DW crud".  This is really the essence of  the game. It isn't fair, it's difficult to get ahead, you pay gates fees and ultimately die. This is Evan, and I believe things like this illustrate how rough it is here. Seemingly in an instant everything can go south.  Yeah and if that wasn't bad enough, the weathered vets look at you with a sort of begrudging acceptance, because we all belong to the same club, just some have been here longer than others, and they've heard every beef before, and lived it. While it is a great illustration for how rough Evan is, there is a great deal of parity with real life. SOmetimes you don't get second chances.  The boss will ask you to work (under threat of unemployment) even if you've just lost a limb or sustained some other serious injury. Yeah it effin sux going into work when you are 20%, and if I didn't know exactly how that felt, I wouldn't send my gangers in when they are at 20%. But sometimes the job just needs to get done. And sometimes no matter how good a job you do, no matter how well you set yourself up for success, you are gonna end up in the soup line. -Jake Still dont have a laser.  I'm starting to feel like seven up. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 25, 2011, 3:28 pm

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 Jake Nikodemus said: And sometimes no matter how good a job you do, no matter how well you set yourself up for success, you are gonna end up in the soup line. . And for the record: the soup line isn't where you stand to get a bowl of free soup.  It's the place they send you to be made INTO soup.  TANSTAAFL, jobber. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 25, 2011, 10:22 pm

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