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History of PVP

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 triad4evr said: Somewhere else somebody mentioned that PvE as it was could just as easily be a single-player game, and that was meant to be an insult. Well the truth of the matter is that if this _were_ available as single-player game, or better yet, a game that can be played coop but privately on your own server, I would totally do that in a heart beat. I would lay my money right down and unsubscribe from the MMO part immediately. For the most part, I hate having to play with other people and hate MMOs because of that. So that's where I'm coming from. WHOOPS I missed this.  I can't believe I wasted about 40min typing responses to you.  Have a nice life sir. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 3:37 am

triad4evr Seekers Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: Aug 20, 2009 I appreciate the time that went into all those numbered items Joel. Only one thing wrong with all of them, except for your siccing Bounty Hunters on people and, I suppose, people culling all the good NPC (which is, again, where I suggest the problem might lay). I don't have to agree to _any_ of these 20 or so items and they can't be forced on me. I don't have to buy 1 thing on the Player Market if I don't want to. I don't have to group with anybody if I don't want to. I don't have to join anyone's event. I don't have to join SCL. I don't have to own a camp or let anyone join a camp I do own. But, now, if I want to go to Badlands, I _do_ have to submit to PvP. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 3:40 am Last edited Apr 6, 2011, 3:46 am by triad4evr

Thin Izzy Izzys Irregulars Racer Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: Sep 22, 2009 Frankly, this insistence on pushing people into PvP is at best shortsighted IMHO. Let me put this into perspective. I, for one, am not interested in being stuffed into a "PvE ghetto", or having the additional inconvenience of being randomly forced into combat encounters against players I have no realistic hope of competing with tactically or statistically (in terms of in-game funds. equipment, and especially ganger training) should I choose to scout south of GW. And yes, I'm aware one can truce out (for a fee) - however, extortion (even with a token fee) is still extortion. Some of us just want to quietly do our own thing, y'know? Why is the casual PvE'er "not good enough for Badlands" (as someone put it in another thread) because they're not PvP'ing? Why is it that suddenly the casual gamer is handed a arbitrary disincentive to reside/scout in the lower half of the game map? With regards to PvP in general: I've already been there, seen that - in games both with and without the lossiness, and not all of us want to have to deal with sore winners, sore losers, dueling egoes, and those who get their jollies at the expense of the unwilling in general. While I'm reasonably sure that the majority of DW players don't grief or fall into the aforementioned behaviors (although it doesn't hurt to be proud of winning so long as one isn't an ass about it), open PvP has too much of an unfortunate tendancy to attract the badly behaved. Seriously - it's been my observation that if a system can be abused, it will be, by someone, eventually. That's the sad part of the whole thing, really. You (personally) may be honorable, but that's no guarantee against whoever else may come down the pipe. And all this doesn't even consider the time investment it takes to replace veteran gangers and/or equipment - especially when one plays casually. The "hardcore gamer" mindset is not practical (and/or desirable) for everyone. Your mileage (and that of others) may of course vary. Needless to say, I'm against forced PvP participation on principle; this recent change in its own way is just that. Nothing personal, Sam, but don't count on my sub. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 3:43 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 {wow, youi guys are quick, theres like 5 responses in the time it took me to think mine up, lol} Quote: Now it sounds like one of the reasons people want PvP is because somebody is exploiting when the gang fame or whatever resets on Friday- now maybe _that_ is where this fix should start. Just like people screwing the markets by buying everything up as soon as it gets there, maybe the timing on the reset of gang fame needs to be fixed so that you could roll decent loot and/or a scary gang at any time in BadLands without people farming up the good stuff. PvPing them doesn't fix that, anyway, so maybe Sam needs to look there, in my opinion. I think the PvP open in BL is a great way to deal with this, and kinda fits in to what I say above and most importantly, emersion. If you rub people up the wrong way, you have a chance of getting snogged now. So if you are making masses of profit and making it hard for other players to do the same without blowing out market prices, you can be intercepted. The worst result being you have to truce out and hand over some of that profit. Perfect, system works. If you are killing a gang which happens to belong to a friendly faction to a player, they can now do something about it. At the same rate, if you just want to PvE, I'm sure  you'll be able to do it all day keeping in mind all that has been discused in this thread. Markets; Targets; non wilderness PvP interaction etc, braggin in the lobby (you're making nose about your actions, thats asking to be a target). Think of the pro PvP players here like they are the big wigs of that faction, and something to be feared, greatly. Even if PvP never happens its done its job in my mind and added some gritty flavour, make me need to sneak around dangerous areas to avoid the enemy. A little off topic this next bit, but I think some of it is relevant in light of market discussion and other loopholes, including the recetly debated, fun or exploit discussions. Games shouldn't be played by their mechanics or flaws in such. Emersion is the MOST important part of it. As Joel stated, its why we are here. The only thing stopping this in any game is player choice. It can never be stopped through changes in game mechanics, maybe refocused. I vary my attacks in PvE, not only to eliviate the stress on the town, but because I think about WHY my gang is going out everytime they do (ok, almost. Sometimes I just want to drive a new toy or gain rep in that town or similar) I know of many flaws in most games I play, and I chose NOT to break the game for myself by cheating the system. I could start up a D&D game with all skills and spells and level 1 million character, or.. I could chose to play the actual game. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 3:47 am Last edited Apr 6, 2011, 3:48 am by Bastiel

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 It's pretty simple Thin Izzy. You get a little nervous when you click that scout or travel button in BL/FL/Shanty and almost every time, that's all you get. Even if the evil Joel Autobahn hates your guts. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 3:48 am

Jake Nikodemus Garage Boyz Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 12, 2009 I don't want to play with the likes of Joel either. He seems kinda crazy. -Jake ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 3:53 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Certifiable. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 3:59 am

triad4evr Seekers Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: Aug 20, 2009 Yes, it's quite stimulating knowing that my game and my immersion could be interrupted by some clown with an axe to grind and a gang way better than mine, that's why I play! Not. I already get nervous enough if I end up spawning the Manhunters or am faced with 2 to 1 odds. Why can't that be enough? Why do I have to be forced to worry about you, too, and guys like you, Joel? I'd happily hand over my money every month if I could simply play with my little group of friends and work my way south over time without every having to worry about some clown jumping me. Heck I'd pay more for that option. As to you offer to show me how to beat you when PvP becomes permanent in Badlands, I expect you to honor your oath to walk away when it _doesn't_. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:01 am

Jake Nikodemus Garage Boyz Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 12, 2009 Of course Joel is right about two things, peeps nabbing the good stuff as soon as it rols out, and the added thrill of knowing that you might get jumped, mebbe for a good reason, mebbe just to create chaos. -Jake I think certified is the word you were looking for Joel, fully and completely, certified. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:10 am

Jake Nikodemus Garage Boyz Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: Sep 12, 2009 Hey howabout a fee for having the PVP flag optional ? Maybe triad would pay 10 bux a month for fulltime pvp flag option? How many would follow suit? Jake ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:14 am

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 I use to be very much in the anti-PvP/pro-PvE/pro-choice boat. Then I got bored. I didn't have the best gang in Evan, not even close, but I had some good gangers and most of the end-game loot that I had hoped to one day find. Then I got bored. All of a sudden one day I quit playing. I was on the Rules Council. I had a camp (which I sold for a pittance as I could tell I was on my way out). Then I shut down the game and didn't play another event for 18 months. Then one day I decided to give it a go, again, and to start my gang over from near-scratch. The change, this time, was that I was going to be more interested in PvP. I thought back on the most fun time that I had and absolutely none of it was PvE. Now, I'm not saying that everyone is going to feel this way, but for God's sake give it a chance, or at least stop fretting about it before it even happens. You have no idea how little this really will effect you and your gang. Now I'm hooked on this game, again. . . unhealthily so. triad: You've asked what attacking your gang would give the "big guy." As I know them, nobody who is on the forums extolling the virtues of PvP is looking for a free lunch from attacking the "little guy." It doesn't take the best gangers or the best loot to win a PvP match. Just a bit of loot and a solid strategy. Oh, and to whomever it was that mentioned that they have a hard time against the AI and don't feel prepared to face another live person. Don't worry. I get whipped around by the AI now and again, too. In fact, I lost a match to them just today and my boys are walking home as we speak. Remember, the AI will always have a massive advantage on you in terms of Combat Rating. Another player never will. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:36 am

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 triad4ever said: I don't have to agree to _any_ of these 20 or so items and they can't be forced on me. I don't have to buy 1 thing on the Player Market if I don't want to. I don't have to group with anybody if I don't want to. I don't have to join anyone's event. I don't have to join SCL. I don't have to own a camp or let anyone join a camp I do own. But, now, if I want to go to Badlands, I _do_ have to submit to PvP. If you decide not to do any of the items that Joel listed you're doing just that choosing not to do them. Staying out of Badlands is also choosing to stay out of Badlands. Try it, triad. In fact, I will personally replace anything you lose to wilderness PvP interceptions over the next two weeks. (Assuming I have whatever it is that you might lose). Just send me the event ID so that I can have a look. Hopefully I didn't just paint a big target on your back.  ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:49 am Last edited Apr 6, 2011, 4:50 am by The Paranoid Tourist

Thin Izzy Izzys Irregulars Racer Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: Sep 22, 2009 Jake Nikodemus said: Hey howabout a fee for having the PVP flag optional ?  Maybe triad would pay 10 bux a month for fulltime pvp flag option?  How many would follow suit?  Jake  Meh.  People shouldn't have to pay to play, then pay again for basic functionality they should have had to begin with.  Kinda comes back to the whole extortion thing. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:52 am Last edited Apr 6, 2011, 4:59 am by Thin Izzy

triad4evr Seekers Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: Aug 20, 2009 Sure but how's that fair to me when there are things that spawn in the Badlands that don't spawn anywhere else? If everybody is so hot on having a zone where there's both good loot _and_ PvP, maybe there needs to be a parallel for each "good" town, one that's PvP, one that's not. Heck, you could do that all the way across the map. As far as the offer to repay any losses, I appreciate the offer. However on the odd chance I actually _did_ win a PvP fight with somebody, I'd feel like crap if I killed a good ganger or destroyed a rare weapon. That's just not the kind of person I am. And I'm not ready to go to Badlands by myself, especially now. I couldn't afford to lose any of the gangers I would have to send, nevermind the equipment. When I go to Badlands, it will be with my little group of like-minded players, and none of them want to go anywhere near Badlands right now. The only place I'd even consider it would be stuff like the Faster Pussycat race where everybody pretty much knows their ganger is dead anyway, so nobody sends anybody valuable, and the gear is basically provided. And truth be told, I would probably be a sore loser, too. I hate it when I have to watch my car getting shot to hell in a scout that's gone south, even that makes me want to leave. I'm very loss-averse, and as a casual player, that's for a reason. I don't have the time to put in that it would take to rebuild my gang in either of the towns I scout from, I just don't have that much spare time available to me. Heck the only reason I've been able to participate in the forums so much today is because I took the day off for work so as not to lose the vacation day. And Jake- yeah, I'd pay extra a month to never have to worry about being forced into PvP again. Heck yeah. Although I suppose it would cost even more to be isolated away from rule changes implemented solely because of PvP (like the recent paint nerf)... but I'll take what I can get. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 5:20 am

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 triad4evr said: I'd feel like crap if I killed a good ganger or destroyed a rare weapon. Here's the thing on that, so would I. Thankfully these are battles to the resignation, not the death. It's easy to keep your gangers alive in a PvP battle, and typically people are willing to deal with you for your loot back, should you lose. Every risk that you take during PvP is your own, seriously. In that sense, and the fact that mechanic and first aid skills are maxed after PvP encounters, PvP may actually be safer than PvE. Harder, maybe? Probably, but safer. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 5:29 am

triad4evr Seekers Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: Aug 20, 2009 I'm sorry, but that sounds far too sugar-coated for me, especially with all this talk of the "thrill" of PvP. One breach is all it takes to kill a good ganger _and_ destroy a good weapon, it's happened to me dozens of times. When do you resign? The first time you're hit? The second? And what happens when you end up at the mercy of some a$$hat? Then what? I'm sorry, no, it's nowhere near worth it to me to have the possibility of having a squad I sent out to hunt pirates end up at the mercy of an a$$hole. Would be different if I sent out a squad specifically to PvP- at least then I'd have some control of the risk. But you can't control when some jerk intercepts you, can you? And if PvP is mandatory, how do you avoid them? I'm sorry, you're persuasive, but there is nothing to gain for me. Nothing. But plenty to lose if half the game world becomes shut to me when PvP becomes mandatory south of Gateway. Plus, I, no doubt, would attract the jerks because I've been so vehemently against forced PvP. I would imagine there are people chomping at the bit to screw me over for being a "forum warrior". ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 6:07 am Last edited Apr 6, 2011, 6:08 am by triad4evr

*Rezeak* The Dark Knights Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,377 Joined: Aug 8, 2009 Here's my suggestion. How about we save all the screaming and crying until after, or at least during the trial. Because right now you're throwing your toys out of the pram for nothing. Nothing has happened. You haven't been griefed, you haven't been PvPd. It's a trial for god's sake, and you're yelling like it's the coming of the second apocalypse. ......................... vet wv deathrceL1 marshal pvp2 zom pvp3 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 7:41 am

Ragnak Ragnaks Reavers Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: Jul 7, 2010 Just one point for clarification. PVP encounters are supposed to reward both players with faster skill training correct? Isnt there also a tie in with PVP combat and camp benefits such as fame increase or MR boosts? This can be of interest to a number of players. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 6, 2011, 7:57 am

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 triad4evr said: And if you intercept _me_ and I don't want to do PvP and I truce or run, is it still exhilarating for you? Is it a rush to intercept an opponent who has no chance to beat you? Under an ideal system, when monitoring squads going out, It would really be cool (because this community is like that 'friendly') that we see some sort of info about their skill level so you can decide what skill of gangers to send after them if you like. I know this sounds nuts, but thought I would fling that out... *grabs coffee* ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Apr 6, 2011, 8:41 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Quote: It's a trial for god's sake, and you're yelling like it's the coming of the second apocalypse. there was a 'pocky clipse? ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 8:45 am

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