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Bugged Semi-Pro

Juris Hessians Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 Resigned in semi-pro event 140621 NPCs kept firing Unassigned gunners, did not fire after resigning Got executed, lost two good gangers This is BS. Apparently the 'explanation' is the NPCs from rival factions took 'revenge' - which is utter crap when lose your best arena crew for 'roleplaying' reasons. Resigning should mean something. ......................... vet wv pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 race1 zom pvp2 deathrce1 pvp3 combat1 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 1:18 am Last edited Apr 14, 2011, 1:52 am by Juris

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Yeah. Same thing happened to me. This is stupid. To think that the NPCs would completely ignore the competition is dumb, and it doesn't help either side. If I was on the team with one of these idiots out for revenge I would be irritated, too, as their job is to help take out the other team. Admittedly, though, my gangers were in big trouble before they were executed, but they weren't quite dead, yet. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 5:16 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I wouldn't consider this to be a bug - after all, there is indeed a revenge argument coded in. Whether it's a bad idea in terms of fun/challenging gaming is, however, a different question. You both obviously don't like it. I'm moving this into the discussion forum, so that other players might see it and offer their opinion. Quote: Resigning should mean something. Can I suggest an alternative way of looking at this: if you know who your enemies are in a league combat, and that they may pull this sort of stunt, would that change the way you played, and force you to factor in more than just the usual arena tactics? Is this necessarily a bad thing? Quote: To think that the NPCs would completely ignore the competition is dumb I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's "dumb" to have the NPCs prioritise politics over scoring well in the league. Seems like the sort of thing human players would do, to me. As I said above, however, if the fun of the game is jeopardised, this is a definite problem. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 8:36 am Last edited Apr 14, 2011, 8:37 am by *sam*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 What do other people think? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 8:40 am

GrowlingBadger Meles Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 722 Joined: Jul 29, 2010 Sounds like good AI to me. If you upset a player they may hold a grudge and pay you back in a later event, as it seems the NPCs do. GB ......................... vet wv circuit2 circuit1 pvp5 pvp4 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 8:59 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 I cant agrue with the way it works, it sounds like the AI read a few pages from "Joel's handbook to revenge" ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 9:29 am

Djihani Rollovers Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 899 Joined: Jun 26, 2009 Maybe you should get a warning message that there indeed are angry NPC's in your event and you should play thereafter. Or color their names differently or something, It's not like most players are likely to remember NPC "grudges" for very long... ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn raceL1 deathrceL10,4,0 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 10:13 am

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 Go killing their brothers in other events, accept retribution. Maybe some kind of warning on the register page ' be aware some gangs here hold a grudge, be prepared for a fight ' ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Apr 14, 2011, 11:02 am Last edited Apr 14, 2011, 11:05 am by *Grograt*

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 It's not good AI when they spend 10 turns trying to reposition themselves to shoot your still vehicle after you've resigned. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 12:44 pm

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 What happens if.... The AI fires on you and you fire back? Does this trigger any retaliation or negative rep on the part of the other AI? If so then this needs another look. It isn't reasonable to penalize a player for protecting themselves. Putting a resigned player in a position where they can't defend themselves from an attack without bringing down other penalties isn't really fun. ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 14, 2011, 1:16 pm

d0dger an0maly Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,492 Joined: Jan 24, 2010 Just because it hasn't been specifically pointed out so far in the discussion here... The Semi-Pro league are the ONLY in town events that have participants from the same factions that can be hunted in the wilderness. Unless you never play events in the wilderness, there will be people who hate you in these events. I think the confusion and outrage from how these play out is people joining them and assuming (without much reason not to) that these events work just like every other town event. Sam is right, you just have to pay attention to which members of the opposing team are from factions that hold you ill will, and make sure you play cautiously and take them out before you may have to resign. The problem is people sign up without realizing these events are quite different from all other town events in this regard, and never learn about that until after this happens to them. ......................... vet wv combat1 combatL1 paintladder pvp5 sssc deathrceL1 pvp4 zom race1 semiprocombat deathrce1 raceL1 pvp3 pvp2 ww pvp1 paintball santa2 gwped4,16,10 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 1:37 pm

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Being able to reason it out doesn't mean that it makes for good game play... ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 1:40 pm Last edited Apr 14, 2011, 1:42 pm by The Paranoid Tourist

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 d0dger said: The problem is people sign up without realizing these events are quite different from all other town events in this regard, and never learn about that until after this happens to them. In that case it sounds like the problem is there's no clear indication that these events are different. If someone plays a bunch of events and then joins a semi pro, what indication would they have that there's something different happening in this event over other events?  ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 14, 2011, 2:07 pm Last edited Apr 14, 2011, 2:07 pm by Kornkob The Dude

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 I like it the way it is, but i got a question The other day i did a combat, I was neutral with the DRM, and no rep with the town gangs, but they still fired on me. Now what I did before this, and after resigning, was to target a npc and jump my ped out thinking I would escape her just to be safe, and leaving a guy in the car targeting the npc, and that's when a couple cars started firing at me. I don't know if they were blindly shooting at the ped or my car, so got the ped back in regardless. I disabled one car and another one still took pot shots at me, don't know if they both belonged to the same gang though ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Apr 14, 2011, 2:21 pm

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 The Paranoid Tourist said: Being able to reason it out doesn't mean that it makes for good game play... Often what constitutes good game play has as much to do with player expectations as anything else.  ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 14, 2011, 2:30 pm

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Kornkob The Dude said: The Paranoid Tourist said: Being able to reason it out doesn't mean that it makes for good game play... Often what constitutes good game play has as much to do with player expectations as anything else.  Obviously, and my expectations were other than what was experienced. Like I said, I don't want my gangers back or anything, they were likely to die, anyway, but this seems contrary to the entire event. If there had been five active cars on the other side and just one left on mine, then I can see them coming after me, but when the battle is still up in the air, it is silly for them to target my car, when doing so might bring them the loss and their own demise. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 2:41 pm Last edited Apr 14, 2011, 2:41 pm by The Paranoid Tourist

Kornkob The Dude Urban Achievers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 1,022 Joined: Jan 10, 2010 The Paranoid Tourist said: Kornkob The Dude said: The Paranoid Tourist said: Being able to reason it out doesn't mean that it makes for good game play... Often what constitutes good game play has as much to do with player expectations as anything else.  Obviously, and my expectations were other than what was experienced. Like I said, I don't want my gangers back or anything, they were likely to die, anyway, but this seems contrary to the entire event. If there had been five active cars on the other side and just one left on mine, then I can see them coming after me, but when the battle is still up in the air, it is silly for them to target my car, when doing so might bring them the loss and their own demise. Having read that I think we're not in any significant disagreement, really.  If the game had set your expectations properly, this would not have been a surprise and so your reaction would have been different.  Additionally, if the game further penalizes you for firing on other vehicles, even in self defense than an already bad experience (because expectations were not set properly) would be made worse.  ......................... vet wv Posted Apr 14, 2011, 2:52 pm

Juris Hessians Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 Appreciate everyone weighing in, I was a pretty mad when I made the original post so I was as brief as possible to not say anything I'd regret later. Here is the thing about this - there is nothing else in DW like this: 1. In the wilderness on a scout I accept the additional danger because I can always surrender all my vehicles and just walk home. If I die it's because I chose to keep fighting. PvP is even better because there is no foot squad and FA checks are made almost automatically. 2. In EVERY other kind of town event resigns are respected by the NPCs - a human can kill you but at least you can take REVENGE and there is probably a 'real' reason for it, like the recent Logo/Vik fight when Vik executed Logo's ped in the arena. 3. But in a semi-pro resigns have no effect on 'rival' factions - and half the vehicles are 'Raiders', which 'dislike' me and most other players who scout. 'Dislike' is apparently treated the same as 'crazy-ass vendetta'. Retaliation is impossible - it's just a stupid game mechanic. There is no way to avoid it - I didn't MEAN to get hit by multiple medium range ATGs with a DD1 driver, but I was unlucky (not complaining about that part). Fact is if you do enough semi-pro events you'll end up in a bad spot - Skidmark lost a Hall of Fame ganger in the same event for the same reason, and he was on the 'other' team. 4. It took me months of RL to build up those gangers, only to have 3 NPC vehicles execute them at point-blank range with stupid text bubbles like 'payback' etc. And, as PT says, it was just dumb that NPCs would ignore still active enemies and continue targeting me (for no points). Negative fun, poor risk/reward. 5. Human players get penalized harshly for doing this - by losing rep with the DR mafia, etc. NPCs can do this without penalty. 6. I understand the 'roleplaying' justification in favor of this conduct. But there is also a RP reason against it - why would the DR mafia allow this? At the very least, wouldn't they hold these raiders to the same standards as everyone else? I could see a raider specifically seeking out a rival player to attack, and maybe firing an additional time on a resigned vehicle by 'accident' - but not this retarded jihad. Anyone who blatantly and repeatedly violates the 'rules' of the arena would find their team unwelcome. 7. To paraphrase Reservoir Dogs: 'Am I the only one acting like a professional?' A semi-PRO event means drivers would have to at least pretend to be professional. Now I'll just target players who disagree with me for 'roleplaying' reasons... ......................... vet wv pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 race1 zom pvp2 deathrce1 pvp3 combat1 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 6:04 pm Last edited Apr 14, 2011, 6:04 pm by Juris

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 You are wrong ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Apr 14, 2011, 6:26 pm

The Paranoid Tourist Precipitous Treachery Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,828 Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Thanks, Juris. You said pretty much everything that I've been thinking. ......................... vet gateautumn gwextrav raceL1 wv e2g0,2,0 Posted Apr 14, 2011, 6:26 pm

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