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That sniper *adjustment*

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Was thinking long and hard on this What if sniper was changed to Car Riffle specialism? I mean it's odd that a sniper skill could increase machine guns that are not accurate at long ranges anyways right? And heavy weapons? they seem too big and unwieldy Plus the Rockets skill and heavies and MGs already has it's specialism .. just a thought ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Dec 13, 2011, 11:21 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Was that 3... no... 4... I think that's the 5th time it's been suggested in this form... GO FOR IT ALREADY ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Dec 13, 2011, 11:25 am

Rokkitz Monarchs Autodueller Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: Nov 26, 2009 +1 (it would rebalance a lot of the other weapons). Would be cool with a VSG/flechette improvement too. ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 13, 2011, 11:29 am

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Another option would be to hard cap sniper for all the weapons except the CR to level1 ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Dec 13, 2011, 11:48 am

betterlucky Freewheel Burning Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: Jul 18, 2009 I like the idea of having a sniper shot increase the number of turns it takes to make a shot in return for increased damage. It seems more sniper-y and aimed shot to me. It'd mean having to code in an extra attack type of course, so it's less likely to be adopted for that reason. It does kind of fit with scav though as even though when at low levels it may end up reducing damage per turn (it'd need to be high before equality or better), it would increase damage per ammo used greatly. ......................... vet wv zom Posted Dec 13, 2011, 12:26 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 Lucky, that's the third time I've seen that suggestion, "Aimed Shot"... Still better than the current sniper and I'm all for that to ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Dec 13, 2011, 2:41 pm

Rokkitz Monarchs Autodueller Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: Nov 26, 2009 oh! oh! and: suppressing fire (incurs heavy stress, heavy ammo use) Wild attack (low chance to hit, better initiative) ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 13, 2011, 2:59 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 We could certainly make some sniper changes for Scav-only, yeah.. I personally liked the way we tried before, where it only worked for certain weapons ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Dec 13, 2011, 4:22 pm

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 *sam* said: We could certainly make some sniper changes for Scav-only, yeah.. I personally liked the way we tried before, where it only worked for certain weapons No love for the sniper ability, instead of the passive boost the ability to make sniper shots Target X turns for Large boost, needing to target between every shot  (For balance, only works at low speed otherwise it would be rear weapon abused) ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Dec 13, 2011, 4:27 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Sweet Sam ...err how did that work before? ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Dec 13, 2011, 4:28 pm Last edited Dec 13, 2011, 4:29 pm by *Tinker*

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 At the risk of being made the "goat" for sniper being broken again... My original Idea: Quote: Sniper gone - introduce "Rifle spec". Allow respec only for snipers. Rifles/CR/HCR - same/similar bonus as heavy weapons give CC and TG and ATG. Laserfire - gives accuracy bonus(equal to bonus heavyweapons/rifle spec /etc and Rocketry would give). To be clear - Lasers actually are going to be worse after no sniper spec, this just gives an equivalent accuracy bonus(like heavy weapons or rocketry) for the weapon spec. Add SubMG to Machine gun spec. Add misc weaps spec (Fletchette/shotgun/VS/crossbow/whatever). Bonus points(not as dire a situation as sniper, and only my opinion): Rapid shot needs a nerf. DD needs a nerf. Please - if anything is done with sniper - PLEASE take the opportunity to do it right and not simply create a new UBER spec(rapid shot).  PLEASE do not cause a #### storm over this proposed change ( AND I DID NOT CAUSE THE LAST ####STORM), by causing a simultaneous nerf of lasers or creating a new uberweapon somehow.  Take your time and do it right (I speak to Sam and/or RC). ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Dec 13, 2011, 4:30 pm Last edited Dec 13, 2011, 5:13 pm by Joel Autobaun

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 agreed with 'Rifle spec" idea, i.e sniping only good for rifle type weapons, (or see option 3 bellow same principle of the RS) as for Rapid shot, option 1) what about making it work only with machine guns, GG, submachine guns and rocket pod/racks? option 2) or for RS all weapons hard caped to 1st level except the above? option 3) or just give most weapon a -1 RS penalty, and the bigger canon weapons a -2 penalty? and leave the above as it is ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Dec 13, 2011, 5:10 pm

Juris Hessians Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 Joel Autobaun said: At the risk of being made the "goat" for sniper being broken again... My original Idea: Quote: Sniper gone - introduce "Rifle spec". Allow respec only for snipers. Rifles/CR/HCR - same/similar bonus as heavy weapons give CC and TG and ATG. Laserfire - gives accuracy bonus(equal to bonus heavyweapons/rifle spec /etc and Rocketry would give). To be clear - Lasers actually are going to be worse after no sniper spec, this just gives an equivalent accuracy bonus(like heavy weapons or rocketry) for the weapon spec. Add SubMG to Machine gun spec. Add misc weaps spec (Fletchette/shotgun/VS/crossbow/whatever). Bonus points(not as dire a situation as sniper, and only my opinion): Rapid shot needs a nerf. DD needs a nerf. Please - if anything is done with sniper - PLEASE take the opportunity to do it right and simply create a new UBER spec(rapid shot).  PLEASE do not cause a #### storm over this proposed change ( AND I DID NOT CAUSE THE LAST ####STORM), by causing a simultaneous nerf of lasers or creating a new uberweapon somehow.  Take your time and do it right (I speak to Sam and/or RC). Totally agree.  Isn't it funny that the specs that depart the most from CW (Sniper, Rapidshot, Defensive Driver) are the most broken... hmm.  Can you imagine some munchkin at the CW table wanting to shoot three times as far and fire twice as fast as the 'bad guys'?  Oh, and his car can dodge bullets like Keanu Reeves. ......................... vet wv pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 race1 zom pvp2 deathrce1 pvp3 combat1 Posted Dec 13, 2011, 5:12 pm Last edited Dec 13, 2011, 5:28 pm by Juris

Rokkitz Monarchs Autodueller Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: Nov 26, 2009 SAM, go for it! I liked the nerf (although I have already started sniper speccing my scavs....) ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 13, 2011, 6:11 pm

Blaer Andre Assault Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: Mar 9, 2008 Break down the incredible ones? sounds good to me... but who really took sniper anyways? In scav? really? MG is like THE gunnery spec... but what do I know... I fight in cars with multiple breached locations ;P ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 13, 2011, 10:33 pm

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 FireFly said: Was that 3... no... 4... I think that's the 5th time it's been suggested in this form... GO FOR IT ALREADY  Because it's a five time loser. Nobody has any objective data to even start from. It's all "feelings" and "I want".  Neither of which is something to base such a large change on, although I will admit they are fine things to base temper tantrums on. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Dec 14, 2011, 12:52 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 JS said: FireFly said: Was that 3... no... 4... I think that's the 5th time it's been suggested in this form... GO FOR IT ALREADY  Because it's a five time loser. Nobody has any objective data to even start from. It's all "feelings" and "I want".  Neither of which is something to base such a large change on, although I will admit they are fine things to base temper tantrums on. Baseless... are you saying our opinions on the sniper specs are... baseless? Not sure if trolling... ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted Dec 14, 2011, 6:47 am

Blaer Andre Assault Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: Mar 9, 2008 I'd be ok with Sam applying crunch to sniper, but that's as I have yet to get it perhaps... Lest it be such a minimal boost? Does MG make me better than a sniper on an MG? Or is sniper the ONLY way to go? Cause if so.... Fix required Semi-tanked, I can still keep an eye open ......................... vet wv Posted Dec 14, 2011, 9:38 am

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Blaer said: I'd be ok with Sam applying crunch to sniper, but that's as I have yet to get it perhaps... Lest it be such a minimal boost? Does MG make me better than a sniper on an MG? Or is sniper the ONLY way to go? Cause if so.... Fix required Semi-tanked, I can still keep an eye open My 58 MG spec died, I think it helped a little compared to other MGs, but was still getting way behind on purple next to a 34 LGner on a HMG ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Dec 14, 2011, 10:33 am Last edited Dec 14, 2011, 10:35 am by *Tinker*

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 FireFly said: JS said: FireFly said: Was that 3... no... 4... I think that's the 5th time it's been suggested in this form... GO FOR IT ALREADY  Because it's a five time loser. Nobody has any objective data to even start from. It's all "feelings" and "I want".  Neither of which is something to base such a large change on, although I will admit they are fine things to base temper tantrums on. Baseless... are you saying our opinions on the sniper specs are... baseless? Not sure if trolling... It's not trolling FF.  Disagreeing with someone on a very important issue is not trolling. 1.  This idea has lost at least 5 times - Fact. 2.  There is no objective data of any kind regarding this.  This issue is tied into the lack of a stated problem.  what is the problem we are trying to fix?  3.  The problem we seem to be trying to fix is how some people "feel" about the sniper spec in the game and what they "want".  Without a stated problem and objective data it is simply what some few want over what others want.    a.  I'll state the problem as I see it.  Specs need a CR attached so we have an objective system of balance with which we can then adjust specs and measure the change in an objective manner.  AFTER that, we can mess with their actual mechanics. I didn't call the arguments so far baseless (those are your words by the way, not mine, and that is a typical/poor rhetorical style of argument), they are based on something.  It's just not the right thing. I'm not against tweaking things.  I'm not specifically against changing the sniper spec itself.  I am against over reaction.  I am against changing something without a clear goal or reason.  I am against blind changes which address one small issue and then create five more.  At the end of the day I have virtually zero input anyway, other than the forum.  It is hardly trolling to state ones opinion of the subject. EDIT:  Someone I was just talking to reminded me this may be a discussion for Scav.  If it is, I temper my thoughts with that in mind.  My points are still on the table, but experimenting in Scav is a good way to test these ideas, and I have zero issue with that.  Scav can give "objective" results which we can see first hand. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Dec 14, 2011, 11:23 am Last edited Dec 14, 2011, 12:07 pm by JS

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