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SS PvP Idea, or, more insanity from Jeet

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Pretty sure Joel was just talking about the anti-pvp crowd that yell and kick and scream like babies anytime someone comes up with an idea for a type of PvP which you can opt out of anyway. Or the people who had their flags on and still got upset when they were attacked, yet refused to turn them off. There's still folks like that around, though the majority of people tend to be more reasonable. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 1:02 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 That sure read like a lot of yelling and kicking and screaming on Joel's part. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 1:05 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Of course, didn't you know, that's how things get done around here. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 1:25 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 I probably have a bounty on my head now. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 1:40 pm

*Tango* 2ManyRads CI Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,543 Joined: Mar 21, 2010 Serephe said: Of course, didn't you know, that's how things get done around here.  Dora needs a brain slug. Groove Champion said: I probably have a bounty on my head now. Nope, that's a brain slug.  It's that tingly feeling when you try and think of anything at all. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp5 pvp4 combat1 pvp3 zom community Posted Mar 31, 2012, 1:48 pm Last edited Mar 31, 2012, 1:48 pm by *Tango*

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Getting back on topic, I'll repeat that opening PvP in SS is a bad idea, even with the flag system in place simply because group scouts would open up new players to PvP possibly before they understand there can even BE PvP. If it was possible to set it so that only squads with all participants flagged were open to interception, I can see it working, but other than that probably not. As far as advantages go, I've attacked people with higher CR before. 15% doesn't really make a whole lot of difference. *JeeTeeOh* said: So PvP in the wild, as I understand it, is uncommon at best and near nonexistent at worst. I'm also pretty sure it wasn't always this way. In my opinion, PvP should be at the heart of this game. We go out there blasting NPCs like so many pop-up targets in Hogan's Alley, collect our paychecks, and go home. It's entertaining and sometimes dangerous but for the most part dead and bloody gangers are the exception rather than the norm. We need to bring PvP up north, where the action is. The problem (among other things) is that's also where all the new guys are, and we don't want some intercept-happy veteran PvPing them right outta Evan. SO. Whadda we do? I'm proposing a simple modification to the CR-matching rule. Up north, put the attacking forces at a slight moderate disadvantage. Say, 15% down from the squad they're intercepting? This gives the squad that finds itself in a forced PvP encounter a fairly solid advantage in terms of pure firepower. It also gives the attackers something to think about: they may be victorious, but it ain't gonna come easy and they'll probably leave some blood on the dunes. To cover the non-sub issue, there could be a coded restriction against PvP involving squads that contain even a single non-subscriber. And of course there is always the PvP on/off button, which prevents those who want absolutely no involvement with this stuff from being forced into it. Of course, they'd better pay attention to their squad leader's settings if they don't want an unexpected surprise on a group scout. ANYWAY, this got pretty long. Key idea is in a Somerset PvP encounter the attackers would be placed at a 15% combat rating disadvantage. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 1:50 pm

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 I guess I'm using the terms incorrectly. I say "PvP," but I mean "intercept." JS said: Yet, anyone can PvP any day most likely by advertising in the lobby for a squad challenge. People PvP in SCL weekly. There are PvP events on occasion like Rocktacular. None of these put your guys' lives and cars on the line. They're not "the real deal." We shoot at each other a little bit, we stop shooting when things get dangerous, we go fix our cars and get irritated and huffy if actual blood was drawn. I'd like the opportunity to be the badguy if I want to. Join the raiders faction. Paint my cars black and have people tremble when they see my name in the lobby list. That kinda thing. Maybe deny intercepts of any squad containing a player who does not yet have his 'wasteland veteran' badge. Whatever. I'm wasting time here obviously. Sure would be fun though. A squad of five players suddenly finding themselves intercepted by a squad of several pirate players? With all the vendettas, personalities, and resulting chaos? That wouldn't suck one little bit. Shame we get so attached to our virtual cars and imaginary friends. I'm done here. Sorry I brought it up. Hysterical picture earlier though! Pretty much says it all. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Mar 31, 2012, 4:06 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 You're welcome to intercept me down south, but I don't think it'd work out too well for ya. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 4:13 pm

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Hahahaha yeah, I'm not real established down there. Thanks for your very generous offer though! And that's why I'm focused on Somerset. It's where the PEOPLE are. But it's looking fairly unrealistic at this point. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Mar 31, 2012, 4:25 pm Last edited Mar 31, 2012, 4:26 pm by *JeeTeeOh*

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Yeah SS ain't a good idea for the reasons I mentioned above. Sorry dude. Probably won't happen. But I wish you luck. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 4:26 pm

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Maybe I'll just stake out Elmsfield and make all the courier runs and junkie dropoffs a bit more interesting! ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Mar 31, 2012, 5:10 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 JS said: Keep the hysterical rhetoric out of it and make a point without the hyperventilation, and try to keep it honest.  Some people want to be able to intercept others at will, some of us do not. but please stop with the "Anti-PvP" non-sense because it is simply not helpful, nor is it true. I'm 100% calm.  I don't give a flying phuck  if SS is wide open intercepts anymore or anywhere else for that matter.  I am only worried that it happens, and the response from the fallout is an over-the-top response. I am 100% intellectually HONEST also, keep your insults to yourself.  I gave a very accurate but abbreviated history of how the argument usually goes. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 5:20 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 You left yourself out of the argument Joel. You hurt the PvP cause as much with your banter as any detractor. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 8:17 pm Last edited Mar 31, 2012, 8:18 pm by Groove Champion

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Groove Champion said: You left yourself out of the argument Joel. You hurt the PvP cause as much with your banter as any detractor. That's your opinion.  The first (or probably 2nd or 3rd) fight over PvP I stayed out of it and that's when the useless PvP flag came in.  Now I'm a huge loudmouth about it.  Things improved a little bit, but frankly it's all much ado about nothing as I predicted when BL went "open PvP intercepts for everyone".  No one got griefed and there wasn't any more intercepts than before.  It doesn't really happen. So ya, I will toot my own horn about it, especially when I'm right. Want PvP in this Game GTO?  Get Sam to put in the Risk game for camps that was suggested on the rules council forum I believe. PvP is fighting, in anger(or for a goal), for real.  Everything else is grabassing.  It only happens in special events now. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 8:25 pm Last edited Mar 31, 2012, 8:32 pm by Joel Autobaun

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 This post is about interceptions, not consensual PvP. I'm contradicting what I wrote earlier, but upon further reflection, I've changed my mind: I think PvP should be opened like everywhere else in SS. Here's why: 1. The PvP flag. Players who want to set their flag to PvP-open are making a conscious decision to expose themselves to the threat of player interception. Whether you are consenting or not, you could be immune to player attacks if you had chosen to be. 2. The entirety of Evan's over-inflated economy is hidden away behind the absence of PvP in Somerset. Disregarding the obvious potential for NPC-farming for the sake of brievity, take a look at the SS marketplace: anyone can tell the treasure trove of products being sold there aren't local. Somewhere along the line, the seller snuck it in from the South. With SS immune to PvP, interceptors never have a chance to steal away a bit of cash and equipment from the money-mongers of the marketplace. If PvP interceptors had the means to stalk that SS-GW alley from the SS end, players with an open flag might think twice about bragging so loudly about their profits in the lobby. 3. All the toys that don't end up on the SS marketplace are shamelessly flaunted in SS scouts by almost everyone. Last I checked, this was the post-apoc: I never dreamed it could be a less paranoid era than our own. 4. Because of Somerset's prominence over all other Evan towns (i.e. number of available players in SS), the ideal spot for running PvP intercepts would be the SS-GW alley. As long as SS holds such a massive chunk of the entire player base, and as long as GW is the only 'gateway' to the richer South, there will exist no acceptable substitute for this wasted segment of PvP potential. Currently players are forced to guess where they might find an opponent: They have to choose from 7 towns, totalling 16 (I think?) avenues of approach. Unless an interceptor has spread a HUGE amount of gangers and equipment across the entire continent (an unlikely scenario, excepting a handful of fanatic players) and can intercept in the town of his choice, an attacker has absolutely no tools at his disposition to deduce the potential concentration of targets in any given town. If you've never tried to intercept someone -anyone- in DW, it's a lot like fishing: you sit around for a very, very long time and nothing happens; often you get nothing for your troubles. 5. The odds of being intercepted are stacked in the defender's favor. This may not be a fact known to all, but a player who chooses to target another's squad only has a chance of successfully intercepting his target. Between the consistently low number of active PvP interceptors (Shark being the last notable one almost 2 years ago, I think) and the low chance of successful intercepts, players with their flag set to PvP-open aren't running much of a risk: at best, the inteceptors could probably encounter 5% to 10% of available squads? And that is by no means a guaranteed victory over the defender! 6. If for any reason you can't or won't take part in a PvP intercept, you always have the option to expend the most readily available ressource in Evan, next to standard tires: money (pay the bounty). 7. If you disagree with points 2 through 6, did I mention you're free to opt out of PvP entirely? One important point: The only difference between SS and everywhere else should be that squads travelling with even one player set to PvP-off with his flag should be immune to player attacks. This alone should be more than enough to protect both new players and those who categorically refuse to partake in PvP. --- I have been running my flag on PvP-open since it was first implemented. For me, the thrill of PvP doesn't come from organizing an event with a friendly player in the pub before giving him a big gay man-hug and heading out to the waste for smiley-smiley-good-times. No. Ever since my flag has been set to open, I have drastically altered my vehicle design to make each and every one powerful, endurant and expendable. Every time I leave town, I consider the very real possibility that I will be attacked by a hostile player with whom I have no prior arrangement. So how often have I been intercepted? Twice. Once while running a travel in a courier... and I was intercepted by accident by another courier. The second time by Glow Plug, who turned tail and ran when he accepted that I would give him no easy targets. I want intercepts to be a real possibility - a prominent factor in the mind of any player who decides to go out into the wild with an open flag. Players need to be encouraged to give in to occasional aggression. It starts with a much more comprehensive and open PvP field, but -more importantly- it is completed by players accepting interceptions for what the are: nothing more and nothing less than interceptions. It's nothing personal: it's business. Just ask the marketplace fatcats. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Mar 31, 2012, 9:41 pm Last edited Mar 31, 2012, 11:14 pm by Groove Champion

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Groove's post makes me think I should spend a lot more time on preparation before I put together my next Intercepts/Non-Consentual PvP (NCPVP) suggestion. +1 on the entire freakin' post. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Apr 1, 2012, 1:12 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Bah I intercepted far more people than Shark, Groove. Took out more people too, and actually made a (very significant) profit out of piracy. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Apr 1, 2012, 2:46 am

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Ya know, I'd bet if there were some way to compare and/or equalize the specializations and ganger skill -- as opposed to just the combat rating -- there would be less resistance to this idea overall. You can put two guys on the field of battle in identical cars and have one hellofa fight... or you can give one of them Sniper 4 and Defensive Driving 2 and you've got little more than an execution. Hasn't the idea of incorporating ganger skill into the CR been raised before, in the context of the SCL? Maybe that discussion (if it's still going on) should be expanded to include squad intercepts. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Apr 1, 2012, 6:13 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 That idea might have merit, GTO, but I like to think that if I hit a player enough times, and he's putting his top gangers in his vehicles every time, he will end up regretting his choice and will eventually review his style of play. I don't think another amendment to the game parameters is the right idea: anyone with guts already has the means to show the 'elite' the error of their ways Serephe: Your efforts are commendable! I might have actively seeked out targets if I hadn't been so concerned with the inevitable moralizing backlash that would ensue. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Apr 1, 2012, 7:15 am

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 Groove Champion said: This post is about interceptions, not consensual PvP. I'm contradicting what I wrote earlier, but upon further reflection, I've changed my mind: I think PvP should be opened like everywhere else in SS. Here's why: 1. The PvP flag. Players who want to set their flag to PvP-open are making a conscious decision to expose themselves to the threat of player interception. Whether you are consenting or not, you could be immune to player attacks if you had chosen to be. 2. The entirety of Evan's over-inflated economy is hidden away behind the absence of PvP in Somerset. Disregarding the obvious potential for NPC-farming for the sake of brievity, take a look at the SS marketplace: anyone can tell the treasure trove of products being sold there aren't local. Somewhere along the line, the seller snuck it in from the South. With SS immune to PvP, interceptors never have a chance to steal away a bit of cash and equipment from the money-mongers of the marketplace. If PvP interceptors had the means to stalk that SS-GW alley from the SS end, players with an open flag might think twice about bragging so loudly about their profits in the lobby. 3. All the toys that don't end up on the SS marketplace are shamelessly flaunted in SS scouts by almost everyone. Last I checked, this was the post-apoc: I never dreamed it could be a less paranoid era than our own. 4. Because of Somerset's prominence over all other Evan towns (i.e. number of available players in SS), the ideal spot for running PvP intercepts would be the SS-GW alley. As long as SS holds such a massive chunk of the entire player base, and as long as GW is the only 'gateway' to the richer South, there will exist no acceptable substitute for this wasted segment of PvP potential. Currently players are forced to guess where they might find an opponent: They have to choose from 7 towns, totalling 16 (I think?) avenues of approach. Unless an interceptor has spread a HUGE amount of gangers and equipment across the entire continent (an unlikely scenario, excepting a handful of fanatic players) and can intercept in the town of his choice, an attacker has absolutely no tools at his disposition to deduce the potential concentration of targets in any given town. If you've never tried to intercept someone -anyone- in DW, it's a lot like fishing: you sit around for a very, very long time and nothing happens; often you get nothing for your troubles. 5. The odds of being intercepted are stacked in the defender's favor. This may not be a fact known to all, but a player who chooses to target another's squad only has a chance of successfully intercepting his target. Between the consistently low number of active PvP interceptors (Shark being the last notable one almost 2 years ago, I think) and the low chance of successful intercepts, players with their flag set to PvP-open aren't running much of a risk: at best, the inteceptors could probably encounter 5% to 10% of available squads? And that is by no means a guaranteed victory over the defender! 6. If for any reason you can't or won't take part in a PvP intercept, you always have the option to expend the most readily available ressource in Evan, next to standard tires: money (pay the bounty). 7. If you disagree with points 2 through 6, did I mention you're free to opt out of PvP entirely? One important point: The only difference between SS and everywhere else should be that squads travelling with even one player set to PvP-off with his flag should be immune to player attacks. This alone should be more than enough to protect both new players and those who categorically refuse to partake in PvP. --- I have been running my flag on PvP-open since it was first implemented. For me, the thrill of PvP doesn't come from organizing an event with a friendly player in the pub before giving him a big gay man-hug and heading out to the waste for smiley-smiley-good-times. No. Ever since my flag has been set to open, I have drastically altered my vehicle design to make each and every one powerful, endurant and expendable. Every time I leave town, I consider the very real possibility that I will be attacked by a hostile player with whom I have no prior arrangement. So how often have I been intercepted? Twice. Once while running a travel in a courier... and I was intercepted by accident by another courier. The second time by Glow Plug, who turned tail and ran when he accepted that I would give him no easy targets. I want intercepts to be a real possibility - a prominent factor in the mind of any player who decides to go out into the wild with an open flag. Players need to be encouraged to give in to occasional aggression. It starts with a much more comprehensive and open PvP field, but -more importantly- it is completed by players accepting interceptions for what the are: nothing more and nothing less than interceptions. It's nothing personal: it's business. Just ask the marketplace fatcats. Aye good post, it should be this way, be fun to pvp in ss with your buddies against your friends/enemies and their buddies just because EVERYONE has their PVP flags ON ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Apr 1, 2012, 12:47 pm

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