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SS PvP Idea, or, more insanity from Jeet

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 *JeeTeeOh* said: Ya know, I'd bet if there were some way to compare and/or equalize the specializations and ganger skill -- as opposed to just the combat rating -- there would be less resistance to this idea overall. You can put two guys on the field of battle in identical cars and have one hellofa fight... or you can give one of them Sniper 4 and Defensive Driving 2 and you've got little more than an execution. Hasn't the idea of incorporating ganger skill into the CR been raised before, in the context of the SCL? Maybe that discussion (if it's still going on) should be expanded to include squad intercepts. Yes, by me, many times. The lack of some kind of a ganger skill/spec balancing mechanic is the SINGLE greatest failing of the balance system in this game. I can very much understand that a new player is not exactly interested in non-consensual intercepts when they have to face that 300 skill ganger with their new guys. Interestingly, many of the Pro-Intercept players are rabidly against this. I find that quite telling actually. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Apr 1, 2012, 2:45 pm

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Indeed. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Apr 1, 2012, 2:47 pm

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 As a side note, personally I am not really against SS being open to intercept PvP so long as there is a way for those who do not want it to opt out. And by opt out I do not mean a bounty system, I mean to be immune if they wish. Additionally, I do not think such a system should give people who opt into intercept PvP some kind of bonus to training, or any other incentive kind of thing one can think of. If PvP intercepts are a good part of the game and desireable, then they will stand on their own merits. Incentives are made for things that people would not otherwise desire to do, and that is no way to design/run a game mechanic like this. I think the experience of Scavenger has shown that a lot of what Joel has said about much ado about nothing is valid although I would add this. I intercepted quite a few people early on, probably did about 10 PvP events that were either me intercepting or random encounters when lots of people were playing scav. On several occasions there were probably some hard feelings generated because I was asked to truce and did not. Now, we all walked away friends, but the fact is that several of the players were less than pleased. After a few of those I realized that it's not for me due to the underlying feelings. Essentially, when a person is intercepted when they do not want to be, and they lose, hard feelings soon follow. I don't think people will start to imemediately execute each others gangers. However, as I said above, giving an indivdual an option is IMO always a good thing. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Apr 1, 2012, 3:01 pm

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 JS said: I can very much understand that a new player is not exactly interested in non-consensual intercepts when they have to face that 300 skill ganger with their new guys. come on when as this ever happened? (yes it was PvP open in SS before Shark started hunting vets and noobs with his own low spec noobs) ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Apr 1, 2012, 3:02 pm Last edited Apr 1, 2012, 3:03 pm by *Tinker*

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 I'm gonna keep this one short.  Lately I've been rambling and probably losing my key points. Tinker: It's not a question of when it has happened. The simple fact is the idea of catching a HCR round in the face from a vehicle that's not even close enough for them to see, much less shoot, scares a lot of casual players and new guys. JS: I know the "hard feelings" thing is there. It makes exactly ZERO sense to me -- we're playing a game with cars and guns and maybe I'm crazy but I expect my guys are gonna get hurt and/or dead -- but it's there and apparently it's always gonna be there. And that's why there's a freaking FLAG. If people don't want their precious stuff shot up, turn it to "PvP NO!" Problem solved. But c'mon, people. These are imaginary guys driving pretend cars to make virtual money to hire more imaginary guys and buy more pretend cars. In fact, later today I think I'll drive my gangleader into a wall at 100+ mph to prove he's only imaginary. Watch. The real world - and my personal well-being - will be totally unaffected. I'll make sure to announce it in the lobby.  ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Apr 1, 2012, 4:13 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 JS said: *JeeTeeOh* said: Ya know, I'd bet if there were some way to compare and/or equalize the specializations and ganger skill -- as opposed to just the combat rating -- there would be less resistance to this idea overall. You can put two guys on the field of battle in identical cars and have one hellofa fight... or you can give one of them Sniper 4 and Defensive Driving 2 and you've got little more than an execution. Hasn't the idea of incorporating ganger skill into the CR been raised before, in the context of the SCL? Maybe that discussion (if it's still going on) should be expanded to include squad intercepts. Yes, by me, many times. The lack of some kind of a ganger skill/spec balancing mechanic is the SINGLE greatest failing of the balance system in this game. I can very much understand that a new player is not exactly interested in non-consensual intercepts when they have to face that 300 skill ganger with their new guys. Interestingly, many of the Pro-Intercept players are rabidly against this. I find that quite telling actually. Yes by all means make it even more complicated (by a LOT) to intercept.  That will help. Again if you want to balance specs then balance skill too a 300 gunner is a LOT better than a 150gunner 150Lrg gunner... We need LESS complicated not more complicated.  As Groove said, use your good gangers...lose your good gangers. So since we've been over that point many times: The arguments for: 1. Perceived to be more equal 2. vets have less advantage than newbies 3. will encourage people to participate. These arguments have been shot down a few times by these counterpoints: 1.  It is not more equal - it puts high skill ganger at risk of ganking (if this proposed system would actually have an effect it must be drastic). 2.  Vets will still be able beatup newbies no matter what handicap.  No one has done this since Darth and Shark and Shark used lowbie gangers...think about that. 3.  I've found even with good advantage some people just will not PvP...they just dont want to for whatever reason.  This will not encourage anyone(but maybe you JS) to PvP or fight intercept when they can just pay a small fee on the truce button after the interceptor wasted even more time trying desperately to match CR/Skill and specs to his defender.  This is not the story Harrison Bergeron (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron) by Kurt Vonnegut.  It's darkwind ffs. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Apr 1, 2012, 4:31 pm Last edited Apr 1, 2012, 4:57 pm by Joel Autobaun

*Tango* 2ManyRads CI Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,543 Joined: Mar 21, 2010 Joel Autobaun said: We need LESS complicated not more complicated.  As Groove said, use your good gangers...lose your good gangers. for skill matching you can always just go by the total  number of specializations.  that will favor people who cross train, but I don't see that as a problem unless you have a fierce desire to rally around people who don't. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp5 pvp4 combat1 pvp3 zom community Posted Apr 1, 2012, 4:45 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 So Tango you figure a 300 gunner is the same as a 150/150 gunner large gunner? And you've been playing 2 years now? You know what do what the #### you guys want I'm gonna light this game on ####ing fire. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Apr 1, 2012, 4:53 pm Last edited Apr 1, 2012, 4:54 pm by Joel Autobaun

*Tango* 2ManyRads CI Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,543 Joined: Mar 21, 2010 Joel Autobaun said: So Tango you figure a 300 gunner is the same as a 150/150 gunner large gunner?  And you've been playing 2 years now? *Tango* said: that will favor people who cross train, but I don't see that as a problem unless you have a fierce desire to rally around people who don't. I didn't say either of those things. Does anyone run their Gunners up to 300 and not cross-train? ......................... marshal vet wv pvp5 pvp4 combat1 pvp3 zom community Posted Apr 1, 2012, 4:57 pm Last edited Apr 1, 2012, 4:58 pm by *Tango*

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *Tango* said: Joel Autobaun said: So Tango you figure a 300 gunner is the same as a 150/150 gunner large gunner?  And you've been playing 2 years now? *Tango* said: that will favor people who cross train, but I don't see that as a problem unless you have a fierce desire to rally around people who don't. I didn't say either of those things. How does just counting spec not disadvantage cross training, think about it you [[this personal attack removed by Marshal JeeTeeOh in the interest of general civility]] ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Apr 1, 2012, 4:58 pm Last edited Apr 1, 2012, 6:02 pm by *JeeTeeOh*

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 "What do I want?" I want PvP intercepts available throughout Evan, Somerset included. Any other discussion is trying to find some common ground that'll have everyone (reasonably) happy. And now what I want is to lock up this thread. The TOPIC was a possible CR disadvantage for attackers. Unfortunately it was gradually hijacked and turned into another large-scale PvP ragefest. I'm done with it. We'll call this a resounding "NO THAT WON'T FIX IT EITHER" for the relative CR adjustments. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Apr 1, 2012, 5:28 pm Last edited Apr 1, 2012, 5:35 pm by *JeeTeeOh*

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