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Inappropriate Banter, GamePlay and Exploits, Interesting Method

JuaN VaLDeZ Frontline Assembly Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 512 Joined: Mar 27, 2010 Now see Bast, why would you want to get other players guys killed. more then half what you say about me isn't true, But you won't confront me or the public where i can respond. You want to talk about me behind my back in forum sections I cant view. ......................... vet wv zom deathrceL1 Posted Jun 7, 2012, 11:24 pm Last edited Jun 7, 2012, 11:35 pm by JuaN VaLDeZ

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Can we stay on topic? No offense meant to either of you, but maybe a thead in subs forum would be a better place for a public clearing of the air hey?  This is a newbie forum and suggestion thread and we already all talked before about keeping our heated discussions in areas that doesnt make us look like we fight amongst ourselves like kids.  Im guilty as well.  But dang, every time? {I've moved this across too StC, to keep your idea thread clean. Sorry to bring it up in your thread in the first place. EDITED BY MARSHAL BASTILLE} ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 2:38 am Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 6:09 am by *Bastille*

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Ive confronted you more times than I care count. I believe last I really spoke to you, I said something along the lines of, 'I used to think you were cool, but I was wrong.' I have since ignored you as you openly admit to trying to break the game. But then you keep playing the idiot card, "what are you talking about? how can I change it when I don't know what Im doing wrong?" as you sent me in PM, and then you go back about doing the same thing again and bragging in the lobby or openly discussing the bugs YOU BELIEVE are in the game (some of these bugs are there, make a bug report, send sam a constructive PM if you think its warranted, don't go about teaching everyone else how to abuse them and wonder why we don't like you). I have seen you attempt to bring these up in the forums, and why I thought you may not be all that bad, but then you go and moan and complain, abuse other players in scouts that they are against you, you leave players in the lurch often, and when I have tried to help you in the past, you rub my face in it. I made skins for you, and all you could say in reply is how you could make them better and demand I make you more. You chucked a hissy fit when players didn't take you up on your offer to use some pictures you found to make skins, that you then take credit for (when they do all the work). I've talked to you directly in private about all these things. The lobby is not the place for it. But when needed, I've told you there too. This is what really gets me. You've openly threatened to get hackers to stuff the game, you claimed you hacked the web page for your benefit, you have abused sam to me in IMs (as well as other players. And that for me is the last straw), you incessantly try any exploit possible. When I approach you about any of these things, you claim ignorance. I've tried good and hard with you Juan, LoanSloneDelerious. Play a character in the game, sure, but don't go about threatening to break stuff, ruin stuff for everyone, cheat and steal (outside of an RP element and any respect for other players the game, and most importantly, its developer) and then pull this bull#### that its all not true. It is true Juan. Be a ####### man. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:00 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Moved for obvious reasons by Marshal Bastille Juan Originally replied to this statement by me.... Somejuan was speaking absolute crap in the lobby just prior to this hoping to get people killed, and I thought it was related. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:55 am Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 3:57 am by *Bastille*

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 All I'm gonna say is that in any other game with an active dev/community, Juan would have been banned ages ago. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 4:59 am

*Jagged Monkey* Bazooka Joes Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 594 Joined: Jul 13, 2010 I've always wondered why Juan's PvP is off. ......................... vet wv combatL1 semiprocombat marshal elmsautumn northernsummer0,1,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 5:16 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Yes I believe we have been pretty fair. I wish the same respect would be shown in return. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 6:07 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 JuanValdez..... You have been warned by another Marshal about your constant trials to find loopholes in the game for your own advantage without telling the developer about it.... If I see this kind of activity in the lobby when I am there, I will mute you first..... Then I will BAN you from the lobby and the forums..... Sam can decide after that if you will be permanently banned from the game via your ISP. You have been warned once..... You will not get a second warning! Marshal JD ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Jun 8, 2012, 6:44 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 RE: JD's posting on lobby talk etc... Hey, I saw in the lobby... I think it was last night but maybe not... I forget for sure sure. But JV was taliking to AugustusC. Augy had questions on how best to skill HG. I was also sharing some of my methods that dont work too well to show what not to try. another non marshal came into the lobby, maybe fresh or from an event. Again I didnt care and dint pay attention at that time. And he then tells JV he will tell Sam that he was telling newer players how to cheat or exploit or whatever he said. So my question is, considering the topics discussed, are they exploits? (Listed below) 1) when hunting merchants, let the trade runners run away a little (about 100+ M) then red all the crews of the escorts. Including dragging out unconcious crews or just continuing to blast them. Thus, the trade runners will demo in mint condition, unshot. Exploit or not? 2) to train HG skill, when a car is Zero CR and isnt a threat to you: get out and unload all your HG ammo into it even though nothing is in there. Just to get skill. Exploit or not? 3) use a flamethrower or hand flamer on a car with gangers in it, but not yet dead, to cause stress bleedover onto non-demoed cars because 1 car's stress increases others stress too (similar and related to item 1) Exploit or not? 4) take out a gorup of unarmed or lightly armed cars for low CR with alot of gangers in them. Then kill the enemy with Ped weapons for HG skill (Im sure I would die if I tried this silly move) but... Exploit or not? 5) Intentionally surrendur to slavers for free transport to FL. Then fight in the pit. (yes this gives HG skill, ask Necro about the fight he and I had with 2 or 3 waves of crickets which cause us to fire 60 to 80 rounds of rifle ammo in one event! yipes!) Free transport: Exploit or not? ----- sometimes people are reading a little too much into JV's "help" I think. Not always but at least 25% of the time for certain. I for one want to be certain what I do is "okay" but usually anything I try that seems to make things easy, isnt much fun so I dont like doing it anyway. But normally I die so i must be playing TOO fair ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 7:10 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Taken from the games FAQ (on your sidebar, click game info, then FAQ) Quote: What about Exploits, Bug and Loopholes? Bug abuse, exploits and loopholes disrupt the game and damage the enjoyment of the game for everyone. Any effort to employ game bugs, exploits, loopholes, circumvent restrictions on game play or otherwise use non-game features and other programs for personal gain is not allowed. You are required to inform a Marshal and/or Sam through a private message if you find or witness another player abusing these undocumented/unintended features and should NOT discuss your findings with other players nor post any information about what you found or witnessed on the public forums, including the bugs forum. If you are caught using any bug, exploit, loophole or make any attempt to circumvent restrictions on game play for personal gain and fail to report it, sanctions may be applied to your account, up to and including being banned from the game. Please note that all financial actions and many other key activities are logged in your gang's "Recent Activities" record, so you will be unable to hide illegal activity from the developers. Many things we do in the game could be considered an exploit, if you really want to. What it comes down to is if the exploit damages the game, or other players experience of the game, or gives the player using it an unfair advantage over others, or not. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 7:26 am

Lord Foul .-^-HellRazors-^. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Rules Council Posts: 3,543 Joined: Jan 12, 2008 StCrispin said: RE: JD's posting on lobby talk etc... Hey, I saw in the lobby...  I think it was last night but maybe not...  I forget for sure sure. But JV was taliking to AugustusC.  Augy had questions on how best to skill HG.  I was also sharing some of my methods that dont work too well to show what not to try. another non marshal came into the lobby, maybe fresh or from an event.  Again I didnt care and dint pay attention at that time.  And he then tells JV he will tell Sam that he was telling newer players how to cheat or exploit or whatever he said. So my question is, considering the topics discussed, are they exploits?  (Listed below) 1) when hunting merchants, let the trade runners run away a little (about 100+ M) then red all the crews of the escorts.  Including dragging out unconcious crews or just continuing to blast them.  Thus, the trade runners will demo in mint condition, unshot. Exploit or not? 2) to train HG skill, when a car is Zero CR and isnt a threat to you: get out and unload all your HG ammo into it even though nothing is in there.  Just to get skill. Exploit or not? 3) use a flamethrower or hand flamer on a car with gangers in it, but not yet dead, to cause stress bleedover onto non-demoed cars because 1 car's stress increases others stress too (similar and related to item 1) Exploit or not? 4) take out a gorup of unarmed or lightly armed cars for low CR with alot of gangers in them.  Then kill the enemy with Ped weapons for HG skill (Im sure I would die if I tried this silly move) but... Exploit or not? 5) Intentionally surrendur to slavers for free transport to FL.  Then fight in the pit.  (yes this gives HG skill, ask Necro about the fight he and I had with 2 or 3 waves of crickets which cause us to fire 60 to 80 rounds of rifle ammo in one event!  yipes!) Free transport:  Exploit or not? ----- sometimes people are reading a little too much into JV's "help" I think.  Not always but at least 25% of the time for certain. I for one want to be certain what I do is "okay" but usually anything I try that seems to make things easy, isnt much fun so I dont like doing it anyway. But normally I die so i must be playing TOO fair Some people may consider those "exploits", but those items you mentioned are usually learned the more you play the game. Players experiment to learn ways to speed up training or get the AI to demo sooner, which is quite normal for a human. Experiment, learn and evolve into something more efficient or better. Besides hacking the game, the one area that would be a no no to me would be a game mechanic/bug used against another player for your benefit to give you an advantage/edge over another that was never intended to be used that way. Especially if it's not reported asap and is used until Sam corrects it. I'm pretty sure we've had players do this in the past and they were not banned (though it probably irritated Sam). So unless Juan is doing these things, I think he's in the clear. Short answer to all your questions, nope. ......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 7:43 am Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 7:59 am by Lord Foul

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Serephe said: All I'm gonna say is that in any other game with an active dev/community, Juan would have been banned ages ago. this is pretty much spot on... but then so would I ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 9:22 am

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 This thread will only fuel an incredibly annoying, pointless fire that should be completely ignored until it burns out.. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 6:04 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Everyone knows that Fire Engines in Evan create fires.... nobody puts them out ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 6:38 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Evan 457 by Ray "1337 n00b" Bradbury ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 6:45 pm Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 6:45 pm by Groove Champion

*Tinker* BibleThumpers Anonymous Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,546 Joined: Aug 1, 2008 StCrispin said: Exploit or not? 2) to train HG skill, when a car is Zero CR and isnt a threat to you: get out and unload all your HG ammo into it even though nothing is in there.  Just to get skill. But i could have sworn there is a reduction of training if you shoot dead cars I don't really think it's an exploit, unless this is what someone does over and over again with no risk involved and if it lasts until their ammo runs out, repeatedly, which means one of the AI turtled, how often does that happen? I have ped sniped a tons for a while in FL where there are some real nice spots for muscle cars but there is not enough room for reloads to finish 4-5 cars, but even in the best spots things can go horribly wrong if your not paying close attention. I lost a bunch of peeps. Now some people might call that super lame exploiting the AI, but really it's crazy hard sometimes, plus now with creatures popping out of the woodworks.... I have lost a few good Psis that way As for all the other points, i'd say it all good use of tactics ......................... vet marshal wv pvp3 zom circuit2 pvp1 cont Posted Jun 8, 2012, 10:02 pm Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 10:04 pm by *Tinker*

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 Yeah, 2 is the only one I would say is a bit dodgy - it was an obvious bug exploit when you used to be able to sit in town and get XP from shooting buildings, and that sounds similar enough that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. 1 is sort of exploiting the fact that the trader AI is pretty dumb and doesn't know how to escort properly, but there's no real way to avoid that if you're going to fight traders at all. I would put "making all the AI fall into a pit, then killing them with peds because they can't elevate their guns enough to hit you" on a list of the exploits that everyone used to do, but I guess that doesn't happen any more with the new pathfinding? I suppose I'll find out when I finally get my guys back to BL. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted Jun 8, 2012, 10:36 pm Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 10:40 pm by *Wolfsbane*

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 Actually #2 is pretty sound. I don't normally have live humans or moving vehicles at the receiving end of my target practice, but I've become pretty skilled with a handgun nonetheless. None of StC's examples seem like exploits to me. ...But hasn't this thread been moved away from its original purpose?? ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Jun 8, 2012, 10:43 pm Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 10:51 pm by *JeeTeeOh*

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Yes and no. Yes because we are discussin what is or isnt exploitive. No because the examples above were things JV was talking to me and Augustus about in the lobby and was accused of discussing exploits. If those are not exploits, then it is here as an example that some things people scream "exploit" at... At Juan, are out of missinterpretation. Before anyone flames me for saying that... It seems people act and react to anthing he says under the assumption that since it IS Juan, it MUST be an exploit. A very good example us hiw my thread recently went from a topic to a very heated angerfest when he added input to it. Not to say JV is clean in the blood of the lamb (so to speak) but he isnt the anti-christ either. Past actions have colored opinions of him poorly. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 11:15 pm Last edited Jun 8, 2012, 11:17 pm by StCrispin

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 1) when hunting merchants, let the trade runners run away a little (about 100+ M) then red all the crews of the escorts.  Including dragging out unconcious crews or just continuing to blast them.  Thus, the trade runners will demo in mint condition, unshot. Exploit or not? NOT... it doesn't normally work as distance reduces stress... BUT everyone knows traders are a soft touch and they should have more CR protecting them... Sam should have done something about this ages ago. (i love bunnies) 2) to train HG skill, when a car is Zero CR and isnt a threat to you: get out and unload all your HG ammo into it even though nothing is in there.  Just to get skill. Exploit or not? NOT - it doesnt give you much and using your handgun should train you... getting out of your car is always dangerous BUT sam should have put insect encounters IN event if there are peds around.. especially those types that suddenly come out of the ground  (oh yes i do) 3) use a flamethrower or hand flamer on a car with gangers in it, but not yet dead, to cause stress bleedover onto non-demoed cars because 1 car's stress increases others stress too (similar and related to item 1) Exploit or not? NOT - if i see that the enemy is ruthlessly going to kill my mates until I surrender then I may do just that BUT sam should have made a character trait for NPCs that determines whether they will react well or badly to this. Fight harder, run faster or surrender (ones with floppy ears) 4) take out a gorup of unarmed or lightly armed cars for low CR with alot of gangers in them.  Then kill the enemy with Ped weapons for HG skill (Im sure I would die if I tried this silly move) Definately NOT - with limited gang sizes this is stupid if you want to build a good gang (and twitchy noses) 5) Intentionally surrendur to slavers for free transport to FL.  Then fight in the pit.  (yes this gives HG skill, ask Necro about the fight he and I had with 2 or 3 waves of crickets which cause us to fire 60 to 80 rounds of rifle ammo in one event!  yipes!) NOT - but the pit should be much tougher... sometimes you should face guys with guns.. or cars.. as well as insects (nice aren't they!) ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jun 8, 2012, 11:36 pm

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