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The best way to hunt a player

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Sarge said: Groove Champion said: *Grograt* said: I cannot believe this is stil an open topic after all these years, Anybody seen the film ' catch 22 ' It's alive because we have a legion of vocal cowards flaming the forums Really? A legion?  No. Not a 'legion'. That was quite an overstatement on my part. Care to read the rest of my comment now? ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 3:28 am

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 Groove Champion said: *Grograt* said: I cannot believe this is stil an open topic after all these years, Anybody seen the film ' catch 22 ' It's alive because we have a legion of vocal cowards flaming the forums, bragging about getting away with murder (figuratively only) and heckling players while those who would LOVE to confront these agitators and shut them down in-game instead of wasting their time in the forums simply cannot do it. Wait, Grog is alive because a legion of vocal cowards are flaming the forums? ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 4:23 am

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 JS said: Wait, Grog is alive because a legion of vocal cowards are flaming the forums? Exactamundo. Whenever the legion reaches a certain size, the Grog returns to exact vengeance and drag them to hell. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Aug 8, 2012, 5:36 am Last edited Aug 8, 2012, 5:39 am by *JeeTeeOh*

*Wolfsbane* Arbiters Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,038 Joined: Oct 9, 2009 Iron Wraith said: The ending of bonuses for just having a PvP flag set would end any exploiting as there would be no benefit.  Instead PvP would simply be a marker for like minded fellows to identify one another.  No trucing would be allowed. If it wasn't too hard to code, you could allow the bonuses to apply but only if an intercept actually occurs. I believe that's actually the case right now.  Sam? ......................... vet wv marshal pvp2 cont Posted Aug 8, 2012, 11:47 am

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 *JeeTeeOh* said: JS said: Wait, Grog is alive because a legion of vocal cowards are flaming the forums? Exactamundo. Whenever the legion reaches a certain size, the Grog returns to exact vengeance and drag them to hell. LMAO, that #### is funny, pardon the French. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 2:05 pm

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 *Wolfsbane* said: Iron Wraith said: The ending of bonuses for just having a PvP flag set would end any exploiting as there would be no benefit.  Instead PvP would simply be a marker for like minded fellows to identify one another.  No trucing would be allowed. If it wasn't too hard to code, you could allow the bonuses to apply but only if an intercept actually occurs. I believe that's actually the case right now.  Sam? I was pretty sure thats how it works too Wolf, you only get a bonus if you actually PvP. I didn't see any change in training over the months I had it on. I also didn't see any PvP. Tried looking to intercept a few times, but Rev stays in SS ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 2:23 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 JS said: Yes, there is a quick and easy way. It's called squad challenge. I was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. Quote: What we are talking about here, as usual, is not "PvP" writ large as there is lots of PvP easily available in the game.  Town events, SCL, Leagues, COE.  Scads of it. It is very important that we talk about what the real issue is.  Not PVP as an over arching issue, but a small part of PvP.  That small part is intercepts. We are talking about intercepts.  I find this distinction very important because painting people who are not interested in the intercepts part of PvP with a broad brush of "anti-PvP" is not helpful, nor is it true. This. If we can identify the real issue, maybe a compromise can finally be reached... ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 3:04 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 [quote=Iron Wraith] Even those that are interested don't seem to be taking full advantage of the opportunities.[/quote] i see you have never actually tried to intercept other player squads. If you had you would realise how completely imaginary the 'opportunities' are. [quote=JS] What we are talking about here, as usual, is not "PvP" writ large as there is lots of PvP easily available in the game. Town events, SCL, Leagues, COE. Scads of it. It is very important that we talk about what the real issue is. Not PVP as an over arching issue, but a small part of PvP. That small part is intercepts. We are talking about intercepts. I find this distinction very important because painting people who are not interested in the intercepts part of PvP with a broad brush of "anti-PvP" is not helpful, nor is it true. [/quote] there is very little PVP in any of the game.. in most town events a bunch of people cry truce at the beginning... thereby making the pvp player look like some kind of terrible griefer. Squad combat leagues were more often pvai than pvp and so on. The truthis that ... once again.. you are trying to obfuscate a really simple issue. PVP in this game has to be squad on squad combat in the wild because that is what most people play... its the only bit of the game that has a problem because if people WANT to pvp in town events they can (and be called a griefer afterwards). and it is 'out there' in the wild that fortunes are made. The game IS for the most part scouting (although it was not the original game I know). Its what drives the game economy, keeps players playing (with a few notable exceptions). ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 3:31 pm Last edited Aug 8, 2012, 3:40 pm by goat starer

*JeeTeeOh* Loose Cannons Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,796 Joined: Oct 18, 2010 goat starer said: there is very little PVP in any of the game.. in most town events a bunch of people cry truce at the beginning... thereby making the pvp player look like some kind of terrible griefer. How I look when playing a deathrace:  How I am envisioned by other racers:  I've actually had newish (and not-so-newish) guys freak out and not know what was going on when they were fired upon by yours-truly... They'd been told, and hadn't yet seen anything to contradict the idea that, trucing was "how things are done" and that "if players shoot each other it's only after all npcs are out." What's more, they'd been told that as a "trucer," non-truced players wouldn't fire upon them. In some circles I've got a reputation as a griefer and/or noob hunter as a result. ......................... vet wv e2g marshal cont deathrceL1 sssc Posted Aug 8, 2012, 4:08 pm Last edited Aug 8, 2012, 4:10 pm by *JeeTeeOh*

JS Hitmen Trucking Inc -CI- Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,238 Joined: Jan 9, 2010 goat starer said: Iron Wraith said: Even those that are interested don't seem to be taking full advantage of the opportunities. i see you have never actually tried to intercept other player squads. If you had you would realise how completely imaginary the 'opportunities' are. JS said: What we are talking about here, as usual, is not "PvP" writ large as there is lots of PvP easily available in the game.  Town events, SCL, Leagues, COE.  Scads of it. It is very important that we talk about what the real issue is.  Not PVP as an over arching issue, but a small part of PvP.  That small part is intercepts. We are talking about intercepts.  I find this distinction very important because painting people who are not interested in the intercepts part of PvP with a broad brush of "anti-PvP" is not helpful, nor is it true. there is very little PVP in any of the game.. in most town events a bunch of people cry truce at the beginning... thereby making the pvp player look like some kind of terrible griefer. Squad combat leagues were more often pvai than pvp and so on. The truthis that ... once again.. you are trying to obfuscate a really simple issue. PVP in this game has to be squad on squad combat in the wild because that is what most people play... its the only bit of the game that has a problem because if people WANT to pvp in town events they can (and be called a griefer afterwards). and it is 'out there' in the wild that fortunes are made. The game IS for the most part scouting (although it was not the original game I know). Its what drives the game economy, keeps players playing (with a few notable exceptions). Yes, a very simple issue as you put it.  Not trying to obfuscate at all. Got a bunch of PvP lovin friends who want gritty PvP with mayhem and splosions and such? Squad challenge, have at it, go crazy.  Show the world the glory of PvP.  Give us recordings, entertain us, show the path to fun and enlightenment. Because if thats not what we are talking about, then we are discussing intercepts as a small part of PvP.  No obfuscaton at all.  ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp3 pvp4 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 5:19 pm

Juris Hessians Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 Fine, more PvP intercepts - because sometimes you don't want 'friendly' or 'consensual' Marquess of Queensberry PvP. ......................... vet wv pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 race1 zom pvp2 deathrce1 pvp3 combat1 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 6:26 pm

Necrotech Vendetta Inc. Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,872 Joined: Jul 18, 2011 Huzzah! Juris said: Fine, more PvP intercepts - because sometimes you don't want 'friendly' or 'consensual' Marquess of Queensberry PvP. ......................... vet wv santa1 deathrceL1 pvp4 gwped raceL1 combatL1 paintladder pvp3 ped2 pvp5 semiprocombat circuit2 pvp1 pvp2 slay2013 gwextrav triangle1 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 6:42 pm

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Groove: What do you mean by "vocal cowards flaming the forums". Goat: If you mean that it is difficult to intercept someone who has a set PvP flag then it a fault with the intercept mechanism, not PvP itself. It should be impossible to intercept someone with the PvP flag set at no. It should be a straight contest of scouting to see if an intercept is possible against someone who has their PvP flag set to yes. Juris: <<sometimes you don't want 'friendly' or 'consensual'>> If it is consensual, you will never get what you don't want (otherwise you wouldn't be consenting). If you do want it, then it IS consensual. Your statement doesn't make logical sense. I presume that you want to be "suprised". Set you flag to PvP, tell Goat when you are going out and let him try to find you. Anyone Else: Petition Sam to release the stand-alone game and you can make the whole on-line thing as PvP and as non-consensual as you want. I won't care because I won't be here anymore. Until then I do care. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 7:40 pm

Juris Hessians Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: Sep 16, 2010 Iron Wraith said: Juris: <<sometimes you don't want 'friendly' or 'consensual'>> If it is consensual, you will never get what you don't want (otherwise you wouldn't be consenting). If you do want it, then it IS consensual. Your statement doesn't make logical sense.  I presume that you want to be "suprised".  Set you flag to PvP, tell Goat when you are going out and let him try to find you. Consensual: Involving the willing participation of both or all parties. Key word is BOTH.  Wilderness intercepts are non-consensual.  Edit: What Goat said below ......................... vet wv pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 race1 zom pvp2 deathrce1 pvp3 combat1 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 8:15 pm Last edited Aug 8, 2012, 8:20 pm by Juris

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Juris said: Fine, more PvP intercepts - because sometimes you don't want 'friendly' or 'consensual' Marquess of Queensberry PvP. for me the most fun is being jumped by ... iir jumping someone when you both hate each others guts!  ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 8:17 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 Iron Wraith said: Groove: What do you mean by "vocal cowards flaming the forums". I know that wasn't clear, but I was very angry (and still am). There isn't any flaming going on in terms of people blasting PvP. However, what I personally find absolutely intolerable is to be forced to sit idly by while some players defend incredibly questionable tactics and choices because they are totally immune to any sort of meaningful retribution. If I want to take a player down a peg (or twenty pegs), I simply can't. My only option is to argue with them in the forum because I can't get back at them in-game. I tried intercepting players, but I don't have "Glow Plug-like" patience for obsessive stalking. My idea of playing a game is most definitely NOT engaging in all behaviors listed below: 1. Spying on a player's squads for long minutes, sometimes hours, never looking away from the lobby lest you miss the only opportunity that MIGHT come up. 2. Looking through a player's gang page to know what squads, vehicles and gangers he has in the towns you could intercept him in (if he even has a presence there, or squads passing through those particular towns) 3. Opening any upcoming event in the hope he has joined and can be neutralized in a town event. --- I suggest that anyone who is skeptical about my assessment try to intercept a player. Just to see if you can do it. Pick a player -any player- and try to catch him. Don't worry: you can always truce out if you are successful. Once you've tried that, take a long objective look at how much time you spent waiting and preparing (and obssessing) for a shot at some gameplay, and compare that to the time you would have spent waiting and preparing for any given type of non-PvP event. I doubt any of you will take me up on the suggestion, but let me tell you that you hardly get to play at all if you try to PvP. PvP in DW is tailored to be so boring and tedious that no one wastes any time even trying to do it. --- Going back to my initial post about the best ways to intercept a player - and adding in specific details about the target I had in mind... I ask you this: How do you hunt a player who has his PvP flag on, but doesn't take part in town events and declines all ladder event invitations? How do I hunt down a player who is constantly annoying the community, bending the rules, will not engage in consentual PvP with me but deserves (in my opinion) to be pummeled into the Evanian sand? Sam: If the answer to the above paragraph is "you simply can't", then consider this my last period of subscription. Don't worry: you've done plenty to keep multi-account players firmly unafraid of you. They'll make up for the money I don't send your way. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 8:46 pm Last edited Aug 8, 2012, 8:49 pm by Groove Champion

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *JeeTeeOh* said: goat starer said: there is very little PVP in any of the game.. in most town events a bunch of people cry truce at the beginning... thereby making the pvp player look like some kind of terrible griefer. How I look when playing a deathrace:  How I am envisioned by other racers:  I've actually had newish (and not-so-newish) guys freak out and not know what was going on when they were fired upon by yours-truly... They'd been told, and hadn't yet seen anything to contradict the idea that, trucing was "how things are done" and that "if players shoot each other it's only after all npcs are out." What's more, they'd been told that as a "trucer," non-truced players wouldn't fire upon them. In some circles I've got a reputation as a griefer and/or noob hunter as a result. Lol send me their names... Groove:  Do not bother explaining it, they do not care how hard it is to do. Iron:  I do remember you now, you are very much one of the very vocal minority that ruined PvP in the game.  What should have happened is YOU SHOULD HAVE PETITIONED for YOUR version of the game in some sandbox from Sam.  Not ruin what we had.  You are firmly on my ####list now - dont join events with me. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 8:56 pm Last edited Aug 8, 2012, 9:00 pm by Joel Autobaun

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Back when I was openly intercepting everybody, I literally had to sit at my computer for 12+ hours a day; if I got up to piss, or eat, and came back 1 minute later I could have missed the single opportunity I would have. And not long after jumping some whiney little girls outside Badlands and capturing one of their buzzers the forced truce system came into play, so now people can pay a pissy amount of cash to make those 12 hours you just spent completely wasted. Camp PvP is pretty much useless, people close their camps off the second they feel they're losing and that their camp is in danger, regardless of the fact that it may have taken weeks to organise travels to get attack squads into position (and weeks to return them back to their positions). SCL is pretty much pointless, I think 3 people showed up to fight me total. The rest were either no-shows or AI. It also puts a heavy focus on crosstraining to do well, it really should have a total skill cap per character not a cap per skill. Squad challenges can be fun, when the opposing player doesn't decide to sneak in 3x your CR. I've made use of it in the past, it's probably my favorite form of consensual PvP. I don't count town events as consensual since most people assume you're going to truce. Town events/leagues pretty much come down to a cluster#### where a bunch of people run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying not to piss off the "big bad" and then complaining when he wins. Has potential, if I feel like taking a huge ass fire engine to the COEs and forcing everyone to attack me or die. Of course rallies are much more fun with muscle cars, where there's actually racing AND combat involved. Make PvP simple; PvP flag is on, you can be intercepted ANYWHERE, you can't force a truce. PvP flag is of, you can't be intercepted. Leave the warning on the mixed squad menu that lets people know they risk being PvP'd so they can avoid it if they choose. And for god sakes, make camp PvP meaningful; make it possible to capture camps, or put in that little minigame for resources, anything to make it actually have a reason for staying open and fighting instead of closing your gates and crying at the first sign of trouble. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 8, 2012, 11:15 pm

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Joel: I was already on your #### list remember. You decided it wasn't relevant as it wasn't profitable. I'll happily play you in town events and kill or be killed. I suspect you stand to loose more than I do, but take your best shot. You may not believe this, but I have NO more influence on the game than any other individual. I am not on the rules council, I am not a marshall and I am not an economic or military big wheel, I don't go round for cosy chats or send Sam money to get my way. If I have influenced the way the game has gone is it because Sam chooses for that to be the case. It's his game. I am vocal on any subject that I think I have a valid opinion. If you think that threatening to grief me is a valid response to me holding an opinion then I think you put my argument far better than I could. I'll remind you however that at one time it was you that was accused of exploiting and I argued for you in that case. For the record I did petition for a stand-alone game. All that happened was people started bitching about it taking focus from their game (despite the fact that Scav had already done that). Add your support if you want to see me gone. Sereph and Groove: I do sympathise. It would be great if the community embraced intercepts, but they didn't. In an attemot to make it cosy enough for people to accept it was hedged about with bonus and incentives that have turned into a exploiters paradise. To state the opposite side of the coin. I had limited time to play. In the morning before work i would send off my squads for the 8 hours journey to GW. When I got back from work I would time it so that the hour or so that I had would be processing any encounters just befoer my cars arrived. Then I would turn them round and process any encounters allowing them to arrive in the small hours of the morning ready to turn them round again. I could process AI encounters in about 15 minutes as I had no guns and would run. Sometimes they caught me but mostly they didn't. painfully slowly my agangers gained scouting skill and I gained enough money to buy some vehicles. One day someone decided to jump me. I told them I had nothing and didn't have the time. In truth I though they had to offer terms of the truce, but it may have been an automatic thing. The cost was more than the value of the vehicle plus the money I would loose from not delivering so I declined. Then I had my two hour marathon of just driving away. It was boring as hell for me and I can't believe my opponent really got any fun out of it. He also decided to call some timeouts and spent a full minute on his turn because he knew I was pressed for time. I can turn around a turn against the AI in less than 5 seconds. He was hoping I suppose that I would surrender. I stubbornly refused to be intimidated by someone I couldn't even see and played it out until the end. I hadn't been keeping track of time and it was 1 in the morning before I finally escaped. That was the final straw for my spouse and that is why I cannot subscribe. My problem for having no self control, but then again the point of this game is that it is immersive. I like it too much to abandon it. If it was stand-alone I could save the game when I needed to stop. If it didn't require real-time to pass for events to occur I could play for a couple of hours and then park it. If I didn't have to wait interminably for other players to take their go each event would be shorter. I get unlimited timeouts when i am solo, so I could park the game for up to 4 hours. Against a player I get 3 lots of 5 minutes. In all honesty if I used any of those timeouts for anything other than server lockouts then I would be being an arse. It's not the fight, or the money or anything, it's the p*ssing around with some d*ckhead who's idea of fun is wasting my time. So you see it was an intercept PvP f**kwit exploiter who ruined my game. Groove: Contrary to Joels post, thank you for posting the intricacy of intercepts. Having never done one, I had no idea they were so difficult. It sounds to me that what you really want is a community that will raise up a posse against someone who violates the mores of the game and then eveyrone else can take it in turns to watch for their squads. Maybe you should be able to scout for a gang rather than a squad. I presume there is some painful CR matching shenanegans too. Perhaps the CR safeties should be off for intercepts. Trucing should definitely be off. All this however still within the framework of a PvP flag. I know we'd all love to just punish a player for being an arse, the trouble is clearly we all ahve slightly different ideas of what consitutes being an arse. Joel obviously thinks that because I prefer to play aginst the AI I am somehow undermining his fun and would gladly hunt me down and punish me for my audacity. Others think Juan deserves a kicking for playing the system. I am sure there are some who would crush Grograt for his sensoring of their posts. It would be a fun free-for-all for a few weeks and then I suspect that it would kill the game for good. Juris and Goat. You can still be jumped when you aren't expecting it as long as both of you have PvP flag set. Yes consensual means both, but your consent is taken as read. If the opponent has their PvP flag set they are also consenting. I already agreed that once that flag is set, there are no get out clauses. You fight, flee or negotiate with the other player manually. You don't get to set the PvP flag per squad, so you still may get a nasty suprise (but if you just look at who is in the lobby you get a clue). ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Aug 9, 2012, 12:27 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Iron Wraith, my only problem with what you say is that you're basing it entirely on one encounter in which a person DID grief you (with purposely wasting time), which IS against the rules, and should have been dealt with directly by marshals or Sam. If there were no marshals on and Sam was not around, you could always have simply surrendered and sent Sam a PM about what had happened (as far as time wasting goes ) and dealt with it that way. Most likely, when Sam looked into it and saw what had gone on, you would have got your stuff back and idealy that player would have been warned/punished. I don't personally care about fighting people that don't want to fight. But with all the changes to the systems that have come in over the years because of people crying about how PvP is the devil etc it's made it impossible to play the game how I (and many of the people I've played with/against in the past) want to play. You seem to have a problem with GRIEFERS, not with PvP, though. And that is a seperate issue. There are plenty of ways people can grief you without resorting to intercepting you and calling timeouts. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 9, 2012, 12:41 am

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