Darkwind - Viewing Topic: SCL 5, Cynical Cheating or Monster Selfish Stupidity

*Bigspenner*
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It seems that what people are saying about Joel and the Alley are in fact true.

On the 21st of June I told Joel I could not make the pre selected time for our SCL bout as below and asked to change it. He made me dance through hoops trying to accomodate and never changed the event date despite me reminding him on a daily basis. He is that desperate to win he would rather use cheap tactics such as this than actually compete fairly. I am really not impressed I have no intention of trusting his word again. Below is the transcript of some of our conversations so you know not to trust him in the future

On the 21st June I sent;
We have each other as opponents in the next SCL 5 match so I wanted to ask what times you can do, I am on server time so 00.30 is quite late, could you do earlier, also I am at a wedding that day and its a weekend long event as I am the best man so I will need to move the day too.

Could you let me know what flexibility you have and I will try and accommodate you as best as possible.

cheers

his reply was

Sure... but I am 8 time zones after you... what do you think?

We communicated every day with me repeating the call for him to reschedule the event for after the 29th so we wouldn’t lose our chance to play it out and he never did so.

Until finally on Thursday and Friday I sent the same basic message;

Quote:
don't forget to change the date or we will miss out tomorrow as I am at a wedding

To which I got the reply today

#### i'm sorry I honestly didnt get a chance to, travelling this week.

I could take this on face value as an honest mistake if it were not for three things.

THE FIRST THING

This is his Darkwind activity log for while he was “Travelling”

League Combat 2013-06-29 02:00:00 Double Down Arena $25200

Which means he was definitely on line in that one and a half hours later than our scheduled event and

S571862 Paper Tiger Vs Badland Rudeboys Gates of Somerset 2013-06-27 06:57:30

Which means he was definitely playing less than two days before and could easily have changed the date, especially over the week running up to that point when he returned several of my messages.

THE SECOND THING

Is that me not being at the event at all means I won't get the point for losing, this means the other Alley team will now finish above my team irrespective of my results if they win just one of their matches. If I had lost against Joel but maintained or improved my score difference they would have had to win two to beat me, My season has now been wasted because of Joel’s ####ty attitude.

THE THIRD THING

Joel’s bastards have only actually faced four gangs this season in SCL 5 and one of them was an alley one (which conceded with only one car demo funnily enough), is this a coincidence or just more Alley fixing of events and leagues. I wonder how many others of you have had this silly excuse before and took it at someones word ?.

I am not bothered by the roleplaying level of nasty Alley behaviour as it is good roleplaying and therefore appropriate, but I am appalled by the rigging of this league by the act of deliberately making it impossible for other players to partake. I know that Joels bastards would have won SCL5 whether I beat them or not but until Joel’s cowardly theft of my 1 or 3 points in this way I could have beaten Metal warriors and finished in the top three. This is not roleplaying, it is exploiting.

There is a one percent chance he wasn’t exploiting for the Alley but is instead stupid, ignorant and inconsiderate but I don’t believe that. No Veteran player of this game forgets for 8 days to change a date on a league event when reminded repeatedly, so Thanks Joel you made the game worse for yet another player with you cheating and you got yourself some more pretend dollars.

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Posted Jun 30, 2013, 10:16 pm

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Typical. Totally expected. The Alley members are low-life scum. Welcome to Darkwind.

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Posted Jun 30, 2013, 10:41 pm

*Longo*
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Bigspenner -

What you fail to see here is that there is no requirement for Joel to switch with you. The time/date is randomly chosen based upon the two teams putting in the best times they can play at the beginning of the season. If he doesnt want to switch find someone else to play for you (you can have 3 gangs per team) or trust someone with your log in to fight it out.

As for Joel saying he was "traveling," I am not sure what you do for a living, but Dark-wind is a game, not a lifestyle. I PM Joel alot and have known him in game for years and sometimes he doesnt get back to me for days.

Your upset that you lost for not showing up. You had other options than demanding Joel change the time. Hey, I asked a guy years ago to change and he refused. Oh well. Its a game.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 12:41 am

Juris
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Bigspenner said:

THE FIRST THING

This is his Darkwind activity log for while he was “Travelling”

S571862 Paper Tiger Vs Badland Rudeboys Gates of Somerset 2013-06-27 06:57:30

Which means he was definitely playing less than two days before and could easily have changed the date, especially over the week running up to that point when he returned several of my messages.

That would be the event I ran solo. Joel had a BPU but I took control, so he wasn't on.

My question is did you actually propose a time and ask Joel to accept? Doesn't sound like it. One idea I had awhile back that never got implemented was for proposed time changes to happen automatically after 24 hrs if the other guy didn't respond, and the request would generate a PM to the other player informing him that he needed to reject the new time or it would be changed in 24 hrs.

As for the rest of your rant. The Alley doesn't rig fights.

S565462

And what Longo said. DW is only a part-time job for people with busy lives (I am complimenting you), sometimes you just can't show up and take the loss.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 1:18 am	Last edited Jul 1, 2013, 1:18 am by Juris

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How about our SCL V event with jole he wasn't even logged in and we were set to enter the event, and after time lapsed with him not entering HE got the points and WE got the loss.
Tell me how the F*** is that right he is up to something just don't know what.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 1:49 am

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Boonwolf said:

If you had a squad set from the SCL V Events screen, and had guys loaded in, and Joel didn't show you would've won by default, so that is not what happened.

Checking your events screen there is no record of an SCL V bout with Joel on 6/29. Which means you never set a squad. That is why you lost.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 2:07 am	Last edited Jul 1, 2013, 2:09 am by Juris

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We had a squad set he did not the event never popped off that's why we lost. That is what happened!
That's why there's no event logged!

Not that it matters to us but what a crock

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 2:32 am

*Boonwolf*
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StC is the owner of SCL V team not me so it don't matter to me any way just pointing it out.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 2:35 am

*StCrispin*
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Squad WAS set. Crews (at keast mine I know for certain) WERE assigned. Event never started. (even looked in active events box). Joel never logged in (nor any member of his team).

Joel was given the win. 325 to 0. Despite not being online and being opposed by a team that WAS online and set. Had to reset the time & date of the event which had iriginally not falleb within the spectrum of my available times as set upon team creation. Joel accepted the change graciously so I have no qualm with him.

But there IS a few glitches in SCL. This being only one of them (a no show getting a win iver someine who did show)

All glitches were reported to SAM directly. No Response

Which is why we have mostly just Quit SCL. The top dogs win without fighting. The challengers are required to fight to get a win.

Juris said:

Boonwolf said:

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 2:51 am

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Ignore mispellings. Typing from phone.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 2:54 am

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Another glitch experienced: multiple turns in a row getting skipped, not allowing me to enter orders and just progressing to the next turn when the opposition clicks in.

Another glitch: weapons fire hitting like a ram. Destroting weapons (Biggest weapon on car in both occurances) through 12 to 18 points of armor. (destroyed vs 12, reduced to 12% through 18)

Not that it matters. The 4% production boost isn't anything special, and I dont really need the money so I dont care.if I win or lose.

The glitches make me mad though.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 3:01 am	Last edited Jul 1, 2013, 3:20 am by StCrispin

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Okay last time

The Bastards v. FLinT Tinder and Steel
2013-06-12 04:00(server time) 2013-06-11 20:00
325 - 0

Looking at Crispy's events log for 6-12

S568576 Stormer 1 Vs The Droogs Lonesome Highway 2013-06-11 08:57:14 2013-06-11 00:57:14
S568569 Blood Lust Vs Death Or Taxes Dead Man`s Road 2013-06-11 07:04:18 2013-06-10 23:04:18
S568563 BPU Escorts Vs The Arachnids Road To Gateway 2013-06-11 06:16:44 2013-06-10 22:16:44

Nothing but NPCs.

Therefore:

As I said no squad was set

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 4:49 am

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in which case the "set Squad" button didnt function as it was supposed to. Since the squad was assigned (Squidward) and the button was clicked.

But like we said, the event decided to never occur.

I originally thought the event never spawned was because our opposition failed to show up. I expected to see Joel with his first Loss (due to no-show), and FLinT with a win due to being there, entered and waiting. OR AT THE VERY LEAST Zero to Zero due to lack of event occuring. But in this case NO SHOW = WIN and Waiting patiently after setting the squad 30 minutes prior to the event = You Lose.

Again. I dont really care. Im poinjting out that SCL is glitched.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 6:05 am

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oh, and an unreported glitch:

A disbanded team vs my team.

EVERYONE ELSE got 325 to 0 win. When it came up to being FLinTs turn vs a non existant team. Guess what?

0 - 0

By then I was fed up with SCL for the season so I didnt care that I was the ONLY team that got a loss for fighting a team that didnt exist anymore. But thats why i wont be participating in anymore SCL fights for the this season. That was the final little annoyance.

Theres always next season after all. Maybe it wont Glitch and give me multiple turns that I have no control over that end by themselves, or weapon hits that do internals without even breaching on a 1st hit to 18 points of armor, etc... etc...

Its the SCL, not the Alley.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 6:08 am	Last edited Jul 1, 2013, 6:11 am by StCrispin

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Wow! My 1st SCL League is almost over.

What a huge Pain In The A$$ it is to schedule these things.

That is what I have disliked the most is the scheduling.

I like Juris's idea. Heck, you could just make it so the event can't happen until a time is agreed upon?

My first match of the season was against The Bastards. I had changed the time on the SCL page and just assumed that Joel would agree or disagree there. Was I in for an education or what? I also assumed that the event wouldn't happen if a time wasn't agreed upon. I just happened to be on when it popped, and was, "oh crap

!".

I had only a placeholder car in the squad with a single guy with a guns skill of less than 10. My teammate hadn't loaded his guys and cars yet, again, miscommunication.

I went in and gave it a go. I got shot up and yes, I resigned my guy and my car before they got obliterated, the car was pretty shot up. I never even got my car back, lol, not a big deal because The Alley has been nothing but good to me.

Again, it's the whole scheduling thing I hate. My match against Gizmet. Was all set for 7/1 at 0600. I layed down for a power nap at 0000 and got up at 0500 ready to go. Gizmet had changed the time to 3 hours earlier and I had no idea. Not quite the way I pictured earning my points.

Other than the scheduling, it's been great. Guys have returned my cars, have worked with me on scheduling, and haven't redded any of my gangers, so it's been all good there.

Thanks.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 9:38 am

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sorry Longo but unfortunately you cant read, He agreed to change the time every day and then didn't. That is very different to what you are describing. Had he refused I would have been happy accept that or put pressure on racing Robbie to do the event for us. Your point therefore is rubbish Alley defence based on not reading the facts as usual.

Longo said:

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 10:27 am

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My replies

Awefense I agree with everything in your post, I just like you have been very happy with most people everyone working hard to accommodate and enjoying the competition.

Longo your assertian that there is no requirement for Joel to switch time maybe true but do you really want to play in a league where the winner is the one who makes it hardest for other people to play. I hope not as the winner should be the one that plays best. I also said I would play at mifdnight only half an hour earlier as long as we changed the day to which he agreed but just didn’t do it.

Juris, the alley does rig fights, working as a team in individual leagues and events but as long as its in the spirit of the game its reasonable play even if its annoying to the solo players. The part that is unreasonable is the cynical exploitation of the system to circumvent the event rules or start system that is wrong, just like the Cof E discussion, using Zerkeres just because you know they get away with breaking the rules is an exploitation of the game, agreeing in principle to reschedule and event and them not doing is an exploit.

Anyone who has played me will tell you how much I have tried to negotiate a mutually beneficial time for an event, I did with Joel in just the same way so I leave judgement of my approach to working with others to people I have worked with to defend.

In terms of who has a busy life and how it must be hard to reschedule sometimes this is a load of Bull. I run a £9m turnover company I set up from scratch 6 years ago, am married with two children, was best man at a wedding for the sixth time this weekend and I bet my life is as busy as anyones here. The difference is in my life inside and outside of Darkwind I am considerate, conscientious and supportive to those I interact with.

I contacted Joel 8 days before this event and proposed through the game, a new time and date straight away, after a few messages with Joel, The ones I haven’t deleted are below and are not a complete list (Joel replied to about half of them so he definitely read them)

PM Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hello Joel SCL5 Joel Autobaun
PM Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hello Joel SCL5 Joel Autobaun
PM Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hello Joel SCL5 Joel Autobaun
PM Re: Re: Re: Hello Joel SCL5 Joel Autobaun
PM Re: Hello Joel SCL5 Joel Autobaun

I changed the proposed time again (the second change) and asked Joel to move the day while we sort out a mutually useable time slot. He just didn’t bother or deliberately chose not to. That’s is Exploiting or deliberately obtuse, you judge. Either way its not the spirit of the thing.

The Alley players say they are not cynically using exploits to help their players get better results, they argue they are stupid and inconsiderate instead. Fair enough if that’s what you want everyone to think.

Maybe what we should do next season is to schedule all home events so no one can play. The Alley it seems to think that that will be great fun and according to the Alley a reasonable strategy. The reality is there will be no actually events!

I suggest if you are not willing to be flexible don’t enter then the rest of us can play a season and be proud or dissapointed in our results based on our performance in the league rather than whether some inconsiderate exploiters decided to rig the league.

What I do find annoying is that whenever anyone criticizes this sort of behaviour several of the beneficiarys of these actions leap up and attack like spotty teenage virgins with the online shouts of “its only a game why do you take its so seriously” or “ get a life saddo its just a game” The odd thing is its these very people making it less fun and ruining the game by being unable to just compete on a fair basis, choosing to gang together and exploit the rules as they are too pathetically inadequate to risk losing an online game by just playing it normally. These “unlikely to see a girl naked” types are actually the ones who need to get life in the first place.

I have never posted complaining about losing or being unlucky precisely because it is just a game and I find it really good fun. I don’t mind losing a fair fight, in fact if you don’t lose some its probably not challenging enough, I just hate cheats and bad players.

So In conclusion don’t tell me to get a life or that I didn’t ask for a change or I don’t understand busy people’s lives, Just start playing the game in a fair and concientious way.

And the Alley, enjoy your extra training percentage point you have fiddled, sitting there thinking you are all great players and stalwarts of the game. And as gradually the leagues and events get less well attended because its rigged and crap I am sure you will all be really happy with more pretend dollars.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 11:54 am

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OK to add my two-penny worth………

Having know BigS for quite a few years now in the real and various gaming worlds - I would say that he is one most relaxed/forgiving people I know and for him to feel like he has to speak up like this, then it’s more than just normal bitching that happens on the forums and he feels like he has a real reasons to be upset at Joel.

It was felt from our end that we were getting the run around - OK maybe be a culture difference thing. In previous events we have tried to work with the other teams to get a suitable date/time, including ones 8 hours behind. So it was frustrating not to be able reach an agreement on a suitable date/time.

Longo that is a disappointing reply, we never demanded a change of date/time, we asked to try change the date/time and get one that was suitable for at least one of us. We have 3 people in our team, unfortunately that day due to real life commitments none of us were available. So we asked fairly to change the date and time to one that we could fit in with. And you are right that it is a game, it’s a game we all like to have the chance to play.

OK cheers Juris, that’s a fair point if you ran that event solo – but the point remains that Joel has been on the system between when we asked and the actual event but never reset the event date/time despite repeated messages between him and BigS trying to sort it out. PS BigS has the busiest life of anyone I know and how he fits it all is amazing.

I’m not sure if we had loaded a squad ready or not – you would have to check with BigS on that one. I’m guessing not as there’s no record of an event happening.

IMHO – the attitude of some of the players in this game amazes me, we have such a limited number of players that not trying to work together to get the best out of the game is pants.

We don’t have to agree on how we run our gangs or their actions in the Evan, in fact a little hatred between groups of players adds to the spice of game. But we need to agree to work together to get the best out of the game and the SCL is part of the game.

And to me being flexible on the timing of the events is one the fundamental things of the SCL, with players being scattered around the world as they are.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 12:22 pm

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I feel Bigs frustration. It is disappointing to lose an event because RL does not allow you to compete. But the majority of the player is willing to accommodate scheduling conflicts.

I spent almost 2 weeks in advance to work out a time with Bigs group so we could actually battle it out instead of the no-show free-pass event. I also planned out scheduling in advance with every team that was in a different time zone for this season.

I know RL gets in the way for most players, but it is much more fun settling it in battle instead, so players should show a little more willingness to make it happen. This is a team event and unless you enter solo, all players should get the opportunity to attend and compete.

The only other option is to run solo, or select teammates that are in another time zone so you are able to make those bad time slots.

Remember, there are 9 total events and there is only a complaint about one of them. You can't do anymore than ask for a compromise on a time/date change. We just hope that those requests are honored as they should be.

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Posted Jul 1, 2013, 7:00 pm

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I agree X Man, we worked hard to facilitate each other’s availability and if it had just not been possible I am sure we would have accepted that gracefully. This is however not the case with Joel he said he would change and didn't, end of story. RL didn't get in the way here at all other than the initial date proposed by the server. I could do any day and would have moved to the proposed time (on any other day) if we couldn't have found another way even though it would have been a struggle for me. I just couldn't do that weekend, the next one would have been fine. I haven't failed to attend a single thing I have committed to in all the time I have been subscribed and like you, everyone who has ever dealt with me will tell you I am fair, helpful and accommodating. Joel just wants the win, not to play. He has fiddled a higher finish for the other Alley team. Another league rigged by the Alley.

It is funny that every couple of months another player starts to have problems with the Alley which is a shame because many of the Alley players are straight chaps who I like. they probably don't believe what everyone else seems to have proven many times. Unfortunately it seems that many are seduced by a bit of free kit or protection, as power gamers often are. They are like kids getting a free rock from a dealer, gradually hooked and sucked into a dark and dirty world of drugs, prostitution, sex slavery and violence. After a while losing all sense of right and wrong, losing their friends and family, their values and beliefs, being twisted beyond recognition. Until finally being found dead , heaving with maggots and flies after their very souls have been raped into the abyss...... Possibly a touch melodramatic but the feeling of a growing number it seems.

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Posted Jul 2, 2013, 12:13 pm	Last edited Jul 2, 2013, 3:59 pm by Bigspenner