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multiplyng available bulk

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 I've never had this occur. But I advertise for missions from my phone. Maybe that's why? (((Edit))): I just set up a travel to see if this occurred on my phone (ie: new issue) but I still do not have this bug occurring. It came back with "0" for my available cargo after adding the first package ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Oct 26, 2014, 8:06 pm Last edited Oct 26, 2014, 9:14 pm by *StCrispin*

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Iron Wraith said: How can you add weapons without looking at the vehicle sheet? (not disbelieving, just looking for clarification) I am not sure how we can verify if we have solved the issue without looking at the vehicle sheet.  That would make testing tiresome. back on page one where i explained how to reproduce this, and included proof of 2 TG and 2 HFT mounted on a BPU *StCrispin* said: I just set up a travel to see if this occurred on my phone (ie: new issue) but I still do not have this bug occurring.  It came back with "0" for my available cargo after adding the first package I've done it from my phone, it doesn't matter what browser is used. your just not following my instructoins to the letter. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 1:17 am Last edited Oct 27, 2014, 1:18 am by Grimm Sykes

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Ok Grimm, the key difference seems to be the intermediate step. You are travelling with a cargo to a town that isn't the destination for that cargo and so that cargo isn't auto unloaded. Would it matter if you simply didn't set auto-unload and the town WAS the destination for the cargo? If you say looking at the vehicle screen fixes it (or partially fixes it), I am still not sure how you load a weapon without looking at the vehicle screen (or is it only the large vehicle screen - that gives detail about the weapons, rather than the shortened version that you get in the mechanics shop - that has the drop down for all cars?) This bug analysis is more fun than the game ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 7:24 am Last edited Oct 27, 2014, 7:25 am by Iron Wraith

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 *StCrispin* said: I've never had this occur.  But I  advertise for missions from my phone.  Maybe that's why? (((Edit))):  I just set up a travel to see if this occurred on my phone (ie: new issue) but I still do not have this bug occurring.  It came back with "0" for my available cargo after adding the first package Ive never had the issue until very recently, always using PC browser. I've not checked since sam has made changes. What happened to my game to cause me getting this issue, that others like Grimm and Maxxed have been saying they have had for a long time. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 8:53 am Last edited Oct 27, 2014, 8:56 am by *Bastille*

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Grimm Sykes said: Iron Wraith said: How can you add weapons without looking at the vehicle sheet? (not disbelieving, just looking for clarification) I am not sure how we can verify if we have solved the issue without looking at the vehicle sheet.  That would make testing tiresome. back on page one where i explained how to reproduce this, and included proof of 2 TG and 2 HFT mounted on a BPU Hardly proof... could be knocked up on photoshop in 3 mins... but assuming it is as it seems that still doesn't explain how you added guns without looking at the vehicle and altering its setup which you seem to be claiming would reset the bulk. I'm confused ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 8:57 am

Racing Robbie The White Ashes Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: Jul 3, 2012 Grimm says that it's via the add/remove components at the mechanic shop, loading the weapons via that screen doesn't get the database to check total bulk. I guess as long as you don't hit the "return to normal car view" button it doesn't do the recalculation in the background. Be interesting to see if doing it that way you can get rear weapons on a BPU Let me see if I get this: - Set up a courier with crew and auto repair/refuel on; - Go to tavern, get a mission, load it and travel to next town; - At next town, don't check the car, just go to the tavern and get another mission, load and travel on again; - Keep repeating until you have a stupid amount of bulk; - Visit the mechanic and load said courier with as many large weapons as you can. 1st question - do you have auto complete mission switched on? 2nd question - are the missions for the town you travel to? or do they have to be for a town you never travel to? So Sam's fix stops the car leaving town with too much bulk on, but doesn't fix the initial error. This is what Grimm was asking for. mmm would this mean that you could enter that BPU in town events with twin TGs the? It's doing something really odd then to add bulk to the car - not sure I can get my head around how that would work. ......................... vet wv northernsummer e2g raceL1 deathrceL1 slay2013 pvp3 ww pvp1 semiprocombat0,1,0 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 10:08 am Last edited Oct 27, 2014, 10:13 am by *Racing Robbie*

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 dirst off, no the town you arrive in and the package destination doesn't matter, it would happen in both situations. second it's the load/unload cargo in the marketplace, not the mechanic. Thirdly bast, you've been getting it all along, you just never noticed. It's a bug because it only happens if done a certain way, and can only be exploited for extra bulk for weapons if done a certain specific way. It should have never been noticed, because it should have never happened. Please do not try and replicate this by getting a lot of missions, you will not be allowed to leave town if you do. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 2:25 pm Last edited Oct 27, 2014, 2:26 pm by Grimm Sykes

Racing Robbie The White Ashes Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 761 Joined: Jul 3, 2012 Ahh I see, hadn't realise that you could fit weapons via the marketplace So the fix needs to be on the request package routine, it needs to take into account weither or not there is a package in the car. And also it should not allow you to load over the available bulk - as this increases the bulk available to the car in all towns, even if you can't actually carry the package to another town in that car. ......................... vet wv northernsummer e2g raceL1 deathrceL1 slay2013 pvp3 ww pvp1 semiprocombat0,1,0 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 2:44 pm Last edited Oct 27, 2014, 2:45 pm by *Racing Robbie*

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 Grimm Sykes said: It's a bug because it only happens if done a certain way, and can only be exploited for extra bulk for weapons if done a certain specific way. So, is it a bug... or really an exploit?? If it was a bug, it would happen on its own at random or all the time. Since this only happens when a player intentionally manipulates the bulk, it would be an exploit. Either way it needs to be fixed. The only bad thing about this thread is we now have a bunch of players trying to replicate this issue. Who knows how many others, who have read this, are out trying the same thing. We all can just hope Sam gets the fix done the right way so we can all get back the playing the fun way. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 5:34 pm

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 X-man - not sure if your definition of an exploit vs bug makes any sense. By definition an exploit is the exploitation of a bug. If you finessing the game as it was intended to be then it is clever play, not an exploit. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 7:55 pm

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Grimm Sykes said: ... Thirdly bast, you've been getting it all along, you just never noticed. ... This is the first time Ive been using the advertise for missions feature and when checking bulk on a squad after installing a package, it does not update. It has always updated correctly, shown the correct bulk amounts for me in the past. Thats why I think I must have done something. Its been one way for 5 years, now suddenly*, it is different, consistently. What have I done, what has happened,  to make this change? *I did not see this bug yesterday, after sam made some changes, when picking up missions. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 11:16 pm

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 *Racing Robbie* said: So the fix needs to be on the request package routine, it needs to take into account weither or not there is a package in the car. nope if you followed the sequence of events you can see the bulk appears on town arrival, which i also stated, not just explained and illustrated, taking a mission in addition only gets more bulk, it doesn't even address the problem of bulk being added on arrival. *The X Man* said: So, is it a bug... or really an exploit?? If it was a bug, it would happen on its own at random or all the time. Since this only happens when a player intentionally manipulates the bulk, it would be an exploit. Either way it needs to be fixed. what part of "this does happen to everyone but they don't notice" is so difficult to comprehend. I mean if you understood what these words mean you wouldn't have posted this reply *Bastille* said: This is the first time Ive been using the advertise for missions feature and when checking bulk on a squad after installing a package, it does not update. It has always updated correctly, shown the correct bulk amounts for me in the past. whats different, as I have clearly outlined, is you can not do anything which queries the vehicle data, I'm not going to post the list again this is the sort of thing that makes me want to give up on even reporting bugs. It seems no matter how many different ways I say the same thing, No one seems to understand. I do not think you guys are stupid, it just seems like no one has the attention span to understand. IF I find any more bugs, exploitable or otherwise, I won't waste my time reporting them. You're all welcome. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 27, 2014, 11:48 pm Last edited Oct 27, 2014, 11:55 pm by Grimm Sykes

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Semantics X.  A bug being exploited is "an exploit" but for an exploit to exist, then a bug must also exist that can be exploited. So it's a bug until someone uses it intentionally for a personal gain or advantage. *The X Man* said: Grimm Sykes said: It's a bug because it only happens if done a certain way, and can only be exploited for extra bulk for weapons if done a certain specific way. So, is it a bug... or really an exploit?? If it was a bug, it would happen on its own at random or all the time. Since this only happens when a player intentionally manipulates the bulk, it would be an exploit. Either way it needs to be fixed. The only bad thing about this thread is we now have a bunch of players trying to replicate this issue. Who knows how many others, who have read this, are out trying the same thing. We all can just hope Sam gets the fix done the right way so we can all get back the playing the fun way. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 12:02 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 yeah my point exactly, fix the bugs instead of checking for exploits. if bugs get fixed, there's no exploits to check for. It's beyond me why so many people here can't see how obvious this is. it's almost like they wanna pretend the bugs don't exist, so they themselves can exploit it. Now i'm sure everyone's going to go off and read 100 different meanings in to this, that aren't supported by what i said. take it slow guys, one word at a time, draw a flow chart if you need to... ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 12:21 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 And grimm, don't get so frustrated at people's comprehension. Sometimes thngs have to be said in multiple ways for it to click. Different people grap concepts in different ways. thats why some people can't learn using the Rote Method despite having high intellect and then others cant learn using other methods. Example: Road navigation. Personally I can't find a place using directions that say "turn right at blah street" or "go 3 streets down and make a left". I need Cardinal directions (North South East West) and landmarks and distances such as "go 8/10 of a mile to blah street, turn east, near the fountain and the gas station, then turn South right past the fountain onto whatever road" ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 12:24 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 not worth the stress ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 12:47 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Yeah I get plenty of that at work. Some jerk ordered 5 hotdogs with diced tomato and diced bacon on them last night then got mad that I had to type it manually since those aren't allowable toppings on a hotdog. Totally went off on me and threatened me because it was going to take a minute longer to type it all. I guess getting his his bacon hotdog in 4 minutes rather than 5 is very important to him! Bah ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 1:16 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Grimm Sykes said: *Bastille* said: This is the first time Ive been using the advertise for missions feature and when checking bulk on a squad after installing a package, it does not update. It has always updated correctly, shown the correct bulk amounts for me in the past. whats different, as I have clearly outlined, is you can not do anything which queries the vehicle data, I'm not going to post the list again this is the sort of thing that makes me want to give up on even reporting bugs. It seems no matter how many different ways I say the same thing, No one seems to understand. I do not think you guys are stupid, it just seems like no one has the attention span to understand. IF I find any more bugs, exploitable or otherwise, I won't waste my time reporting them. You're all welcome. I was doing things like I always had and it suddenly behaved differently. Its not too hard to understand Grimm. Something had changed, sam did something and it changed back again. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 3:04 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Grimm Sykes said: this is the sort of thing that makes me want to give up on even reporting bugs. It seems no matter how many different ways I say the same thing, No one seems to understand. I do not think you guys are stupid, it just seems like no one has the attention span to understand. IF I find any more bugs, exploitable or otherwise, I won't waste my time reporting them. You're all welcome. That wasn't directed at anyone in particular, sorry bast, you were just the last comment i responded to in that post ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 3:31 am

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Grimm: As you pointed out we are all experiencing this bug in different ways. As there are so many ways to implement each option it is hardly surprising. We are not necessarily just trying to understand what we need to do to get the effects you report but how to get the effects you report that is consistent with our own experience of the bug. Terms like "vehicle screen" are ambiguous - it would be helpful if each unique screen had some id we could all use as a reference. I suspect for example that the tavern screen you get in Somerset is functionally identical to the one you get in Gateway, but for all I know they could be coded independently (and therefore have subtly different behaviours). You mention loading via the market place, I have no idea what you mean by that I have never loaded anything from the market place (even ammunition). I have tried to see what you mean by doing it, but frankly I am at a loss. Now you may see this as an irrelevance to the issue (and get frustrated by people asking for clarification), but again for all I know, it could be a key contributor to the bug. Not everyone can follow your script to the letter for a variety of reasons, I can't go to Badlands. I had auto-unload cargo switched on by default. Because I don't unload manually I forgot it was even an option. De-bugging is not always a straightforward proposition. Gathering user experience for an intermittent / hidden bug can be frustrating as not everyone is tech savvy but may believe they are. I have spent days perusing an issue only to discover that when they said "re-boot the machine" they actually meant re-starting an application. I took the description at face value as the rather stroppy senior military officer was insistent that his rank automatically granted him omniscience. Even Homer nods. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Oct 28, 2014, 7:37 am

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