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Change to remove travel-truce exploit

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Hey Sam..l what do you count as a 'normal player'? Am I one? ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 21, 2015, 9:45 pm

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 I think running unarmed and armoured trucks shouldn't help reduce encounters as its unrealistic, given the towns are small and the populations would see a convoy leave the reality is that and unarmed and unescorted lorry full of treasure would be almost guaranteed to be intercepted. so to use this technique while clever at finding a way around a problem is just inconsistent with the game world. I guess this is to do with tiny cr sneaking under the radar so I am guessing the fix must be to change the tolerances for How likely an encounter is specifically around the CR variable and leave the rep factor alone. No one would run a 40 CR unarmed truck if they lost every second one because it couldn't defend itself. I think a fix for this is needed even if no ones currently doing it just in case. ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Oct 21, 2015, 11:57 pm

Master TMO Trueblood Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: May 31, 2015 *Bigspenner* said: No one would run a 40 CR unarmed truck if they lost every second one because it couldn't defend itself. The Risk vs Reward multiplier would fix it.  A 40 CR travel car has a low value, so while the Risk is low, the Reward is too, and would make it not that tempting a target. A 40 CR empty Lorry would likely have a higher Reward, and so would make a more tempting target. A 40 CR full Lorry would have a huge Reward, vs such a tiny Risk, and would most likely be pounced on by all but the least Treacherous of alliance mates. ......................... vet wv gwextrav Posted Oct 22, 2015, 12:37 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 *StCrispin* said: it wont change my game either since I have no Rep anyway.  But its the wrong "Fix" The problem is how the rep system works.  Not how players play.  If the System in place allows a player to be loved by everyone, then fix it so being loved by one makes you enemy of their enemy. This is like fixing a bleeding Artery by chopping off the arm rather that sewing the hole shut. In the end it really just hurts New Players.  Most Long time players can escape a pack of 4L Sunrises in a 3.2L Hearse with 4 Flat Tires.  Conversely (I know from personal experiences) a new player would be hard pressed sometimes to survive in an opposite situation where they had the 4L and were chased by a Hearse with 4 flat tires! I agree that addressing this is probably the best solution, or start there of. As mentioned above by many, imposing a one truce limit will adversely affect intended game play. I really don't want to have to fight Reds 3 times in one trip (or anarchists... or raiders really), would be bad. Having to kill 3 x as many Merchant BHs or Slavers though, as they are my enemies... Oddly I never get jumped by Slavers or Merchant BHs and they are meant to hate me. I just don't play enough anymore to be anyones target and my rep is balanced by default, just fighting the fights I get. I try to go out of my way to make the aforementioned hate me, and it always balances back with raider and anarchist attacks. This is the thing that should not be. Your factions enemy should be at you all the time and never should you be friends with both. The factions system, IMO, is what needs to be addressed here. That is probably a lot easier said than done and will require lots of readdressing as new loopholes are found. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 2:30 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 goat starer said: Hey Sam..l what do you count as a 'normal player'? Am I one? No... don't be silly  ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 2:31 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 PvtParty said: OK, here's one option to stop that... Rather than just CR/rep, use the value of the load to adjust the likelihood of an encounter. In a hostile environment, it is possible that friends will turn on friends if the payout is a large enough. Grimm Sykes said: Value based on what? Fuel is only 21 a can in TX, thats not very valuable. even in gateway it's worth less then half what it's worth in SS. Doing this would be like turning the game upside down, where the harder texan area would be easier to get out of with fuel, and pulling into noobville up north would be the hardest thing. How about this for a sensible suggestion... Master TMO said: I like the idea of tossing a risk/reward variable into the enemy's truce calculations: ((Value of cargo)+(Value of cars))/CR, where the Value is calculated at the average price across all of Evan. That shouldn't be too hard to calculate. It wouldn't even be too hard to do some sort of localization formula, maybe since each gang is only active in some towns, make it the average value across those towns, or max value, whatever. That's infinitely adjustable and really depends on how complex Sam wants to make the economy. There is some good stuff coming up in this thread. Might address some stuff thats been buried for years. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 3:01 am

HexGrid GrindHouse Sunday Driver Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: Aug 23, 2014 Base it on mileage for the squad maybe. ......................... vet wv race1 pvp4 pvp1 paintball deathrce1 circuit3 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 5:23 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *Bastille* said: goat starer said: Hey Sam..l what do you count as a 'normal player'? Am I one? No... don't be silly  I havebeen here a while.... i must be contributing to the average ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 9:50 am

DirkNotSoGently Holistic Detective Agency Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: Nov 11, 2011 goat starer said: *Bastille* said: goat starer said: Hey Sam..l what do you count as a 'normal player'? Am I one? No... don't be silly  I havebeen here a while.... i must be contributing to the average Now that's a scary thought ......................... vet wv deathrce1 pvp5 pvp1 pvp2 circuit3 circuit2 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 10:08 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 HexGrid said: *The X Man* said: JoniBoy said: *The X Man* said: PvtParty said: What is broken?? Earning $10 Million+ per travel/transport with no risk and no effort. Sounds a bit broke. Only thing not broke is the player(s) "$$$". Well, I am not a math expert but a lorry can carry around 2300blk if carries no weapons, that is 230 cans of fuel. Fuel cans sell at $790 in SS but sometimes can reach $1k. That is a huge 44 lorry squad to earn $10 Million. If someone dedicates his complete gang to moving lorries after all the work required to have good reputation with all factions deserves our respect. No effort? That must be fuels current price. Then you wait for price rise, then sell. I have seen fuel prices reach $2K per unit. Take this number and recalculate your profits. JoniBoy said: If someone dedicates his complete gang to moving lorries after all the work required to have good reputation with all factions deserves our respect. No effort? Yes, there is a lot of time and effort towards getting positive rep with all factions. The upkeep for some players is not that difficult to maintain. Respect??? for manipulating the game mechanics??? Sorry, but No. My point of no effort means once rep immunity is secured, there is no effort whatsoever in clicking the "Do It" button from the squad screen. Once done, the mega millions await once the squad arrives. This brings up the old "If the game lets you do it, it must ok", as to why these things continue to be abused. "If Sam didn't want us to do it, he wouldn't have allowed it to happen", this is the next quote that pops up. Since Sam is wanting to correct this issue, it's obvious that this was not his intent by allowing travels to be done of this type. The issue will be fixed and Sam will get the right info in place to make the proper changes. So relax a bit until he posts any updates. While we are all nit picking on opinions about what was a normal game mechanic until some players who would not spend the time or effort to do the same got all huffy and decided to circumvent a public forum or any discussion with the player community. We could possibly get those marshals that never seem to help noobs as the mission statement states, seems like an allowed exploit to me. Follow your mission statement or hang up the stars, imho. PS. if you think making 10 mil on a 2-3 day lorry trip is to much, what's the DW cost of buzzers and other high price items that can be scouted and sold in the same 2-3 days of play by most advanced players. It's not that hard to make 10 million in a single day speed scouting out of SS with 2000 CR squad, so how is making 10 million in 3 days wrong when making 10 million in 1 day is ok? ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 10:29 am

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 Are you arguing that it should be fine to do something completely unrealistic in the game world and that's better that a more consistent game world? or are you arguing scouts should be less rewarding? or are you just arguing for the sake of it to demonstrate your enormous intellect? Whats wrong is simple it doesn't make sense and so should be changed. In a game world like Evan if unarmed trucks left a town they would get attacked its simple. forget rep anarchists and pirates would loot you. ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Oct 22, 2015, 10:37 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 Had a brainstorm... vehicles have fame, why not give a squad fame as well, but initiate 2 types of fame, combat fame and trade fame. if a squad has fame trading, and the vehicles in it are famous, the risk could also be greater Look there goes Juans Famous lorry squad, call everyone to come intercept it... ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 10:41 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 *Bigspenner* said: Are you arguing that it should be fine to do something completely unrealistic in the game world and that's better that a more consistent game world? or are you arguing scouts should be less rewarding? or are you just arguing for the sake of it to demonstrate your enormous intellect? Whats wrong is simple it doesn't make sense and so should be changed. In a game world like Evan if unarmed trucks left a town they would get attacked its simple. forget rep anarchists and pirates would loot you. No, i'm just saying the whole economic system is broken and unrealistic. PS: and it's not because "I" broke it 6 years ago ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 10:44 am Last edited Oct 22, 2015, 10:45 am by Grimm Sykes

*Bigspenner* Brassicas Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 546 Joined: Sep 17, 2008 I am sorry I understand what you are saying now and that is: Lots of things are broken so we shouldn't fix any of them. Wise words Grimm! Grimm Sykes said: *Bigspenner* said: Are you arguing that it should be fine to do something completely unrealistic in the game world and that's better that a more consistent game world? or are you arguing scouts should be less rewarding? or are you just arguing for the sake of it to demonstrate your enormous intellect? Whats wrong is simple it doesn't make sense and so should be changed. In a game world like Evan if unarmed trucks left a town they would get attacked its simple. forget rep anarchists and pirates would loot you. No, i'm just saying the whole economic system is broken and unrealistic. PS: and it's not because "I" broke it 6 years ago ......................... vet wv combatL1 deathrceL1 paintladder slay2013 pvp4 gwextrav pvp3 marshal pvp2 pvp1 pvp5 paintball e2g Posted Oct 22, 2015, 11:04 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Nobody is saying that you shouldnt be able to make 10 million dollars in 3 days... they are saying you should not be able to do it risk free. For 2 very good reasons... 1. unfettered money flow breaks the game economy and adversely affects casual and newer players 2. its really silly All Sam has done is introduce built in risk to travels and trading....entirely appropriately. *Bigspenner* said: if unarmed trucks left a town they would get attacked its simple. forget rep anarchists and pirates would loot you. that really ought to be the end of this ridiculous debate. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 11:08 am Last edited Oct 22, 2015, 11:09 am by goat starer

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 the best way to do this wuld be to reintroduce open PVP in the southern towns.... or at least Shanty... ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 11:11 am

Tallus Fatalis Foedi Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: Aug 30, 2014 There's an interesting point about Sam's solution, which is that it's overkill: the players abusing the system will only need a couple unpleasant ambushes to change their force packages, so all that is needed is a modest increase in the chance of these ambushes (and -- given the problem-- they need not have the disproportionate ratio of crs to make the ambush unpleasant). But yes, the lack of PVP combat I contributes to this problem. ......................... vet wv ped2 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 11:37 am Last edited Oct 22, 2015, 11:39 am by Tallus

*Splurs* Splurs Scroungers Racer Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 163 Joined: Dec 17, 2012 I dont see how the introduction of PvP in southern towns would fix this issue. I havnt done much in the way of PvP however I was still under the impression that you needed to guess CR and rough time a squad went out to ambush them? Quote: Nobody is saying that you shouldnt be able to make 10 million dollars in 3 days... they are saying you should not be able to do it risk free. For 2 very good reasons... 1. unfettered money flow breaks the game economy and adversely affects casual and newer players 2. its really silly I can agree with some of this, however I can also see the other side of it. I am not sure how it adversely affects casual and newer players, if anything I have seen Elms and SS fuel prices quite low lately, which I imagine it is from the constant flow of fuel from south. I dont agree with the 2. Trying to argue with "its really silly" IMO is not a good stance. I do believe it isnt what Sam wanted in the game, and if thats the case then SOMETHING needs to be changed, however this is a community that should be kept content for the majority. If things get changed lets make sure they are changed for the right reasons, sure someone will say it is Sams game he can change it how he wants, and to a point that is right, however I pay for the privalidge of having a subscription, which I believe should entail me to have at least some say in the major changes of the game, as this is one of them. If the majority want it then so be it, if they don't then also so be it. I just see fixing a broken issue with another broken issue is only going to make more people unhappy. Quote: if unarmed trucks left a town they would get attacked its simple. forget rep anarchists and pirates would loot you. No I do not agree with this. If your friend was to leave town unarmed I wouldn't loot you. Some people rule out of talent some out of fear, but the bottom line is there is some kind of heirachy, and you dont screw over friends. All im asking for is some feedback from those who are paying for the game to have some say in it. treat every players views equally and make an informed decision at the end of it to see where we end up. ......................... vet wv marshal Posted Oct 22, 2015, 12:14 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Obviously my original suggestion has gone at this point - the flaws are obvious following these discussions. I have just made this change: when you buy faction rep with hero points, the enemies of that faction will take exception to it much more than they previously did. This may be enough to tackle the core problem, whereby players manage to be liked by everyone? I have to say, I also really like the suggestion that pirates are an untrustworthy lot, and if you're moving about valuable, poorly guarded cargo, they are liable to go against their faction wishes and attack you anyway. This is perfectly logical behaviour. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 12:23 pm

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 *Bigspenner* said: I am sorry I understand what you are saying now and that is: Lots of things are broken so we shouldn't fix any of them. Wise words Grimm! Grimm Sykes said: *Bigspenner* said: Are you arguing that it should be fine to do something completely unrealistic in the game world and that's better that a more consistent game world? or are you arguing scouts should be less rewarding? or are you just arguing for the sake of it to demonstrate your enormous intellect? Whats wrong is simple it doesn't make sense and so should be changed. In a game world like Evan if unarmed trucks left a town they would get attacked its simple. forget rep anarchists and pirates would loot you. No, i'm just saying the whole economic system is broken and unrealistic. PS: and it's not because "I" broke it 6 years ago Quite the opposite, I'm saying deal with all of them. And most importantly, deal with the core problems, not just the symptoms. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Oct 22, 2015, 12:58 pm

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