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Not everyone loves you

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 RotaryJunkie said: Very... Interesting results from this. Woke up exceedingly late (8:45pm EST or so), heard about it, checked reps, showed Hated by Civs, scorned by raiders/reds, still high on mutant/slaver reps, think was around disliked with merchants. 5-10 minutes later without any in game action whatsoever, I went up to neutral with merchants, disliked by Civs, mutant/slaver rep dropped, reds/raider rep improved. So I have literally no idea how it's going to shake out now. How many of the 11 factions liked you before this? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 10:59 am

*Tango* 2ManyRads CI Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,543 Joined: Mar 21, 2010 RotaryJunkie said: Very... Interesting results from this. Woke up exceedingly late (8:45pm EST or so), heard about it, checked reps, showed Hated by Civs, scorned by raiders/reds, still high on mutant/slaver reps, think was around disliked with merchants. 5-10 minutes later without any in game action whatsoever, I went up to neutral with merchants, disliked by Civs, mutant/slaver rep dropped, reds/raider rep improved. So I have literally no idea how it's going to shake out now. I'm seeing a lot of regression to the mean here, which is normal.  All your factions drift slightly back towards neutral every week.  ......................... marshal vet wv pvp5 pvp4 combat1 pvp3 zom community Posted Oct 30, 2015, 11:22 am

RotaryJunkie Foul Play Sunday Driver Morgan Faction Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: Aug 31, 2014 I think 10/11 were some form of positive, but Badlands Truckstop and the Evan Reds were easily the lowest at appreciated and liked, respectively. Raiders were at disliked. Oh, and slight correction, reds/raiders initially went to "detested", not "scorned", and then the random shift put reds to "disliked" and raiders to "unappreciated" initially. Also, since the change (and having shot at absolutely no one not a raider or red before it happened), I randomly acquired a bounty, though my switch to Mutant primary faction may have had something to do with this. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 30, 2015, 11:26 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 OK, thanks. These changes will only happen to players whose gangs have positive rep with more than half of the factions. Also, the changes are not very random. There is (behind the scenes) a matrix of relationships between each of the factions, and what the new code is doing is running through a system that already exists wherever reputation is gained or lost.. i.e. a faction is selected with whom you have positive rep., and this is used to drive down your rep. with its enemy factions. In fact, the only randomness is that the new system randomly chooses one faction at a time to apply this approach to, and it stops when you are no longer in positive rep. with more than half of the factions. The end result is that hopefully you should have a distribution of likes/dislikes that make logical sense. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 12:26 pm Last edited Oct 30, 2015, 12:27 pm by *sam*

Celticfrost Anarchy X Autodueller Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 492 Joined: Feb 14, 2011 Thanks Sam, I believe this should fix the issue of everyone loving you, which they certainly should not. ......................... vet wv zom pvp5 pvp2 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 12:39 pm

RotaryJunkie Foul Play Sunday Driver Morgan Faction Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: Aug 31, 2014 *sam* said: OK, thanks. These changes will only happen to players whose gangs have positive rep with more than half of the factions. Also, the changes are not very random. There is (behind the scenes) a matrix of relationships between each of the factions, and what the new code is doing is running through a system that already exists wherever reputation is gained or lost.. i.e. a faction is selected with whom you have positive rep., and this is used to drive down your rep. with its enemy factions. In fact, the only randomness is that the new system randomly chooses one faction at a time to apply this approach to, and it stops when you are no longer in positive rep. with more than half of the factions. The end result is that hopefully you should have a distribution of likes/dislikes that make logical sense. Hmm... Well, at present, my reps sort of make logical sense. Almost. Hell, I'm still at 6 factions offering me primary, and there's the problem. I left the Morgan faction which is usually a rep drop, no change, still (and in fact, the only one) at Honoured. Actually, speaking of Morgan faction, I'd almost hazard a guess that it was the issue in the first place. I know of zero players who'd managed the balancing act without being Morgan primary, perhaps this has something to do with exactly zero factions having negative feelings towards Morgan itself? In fact, exactly zero factions have any feelings one way or the other about MO. Now, however, I'm forced to actively go hunting MO faction (although I only have 3 people in MO for the purpose of defenses) in order to bring it down to something reasonable without absolutely destroying my reputation in every city I'm active in at all. Same goes for Privateers having survived the changes with a positive rep. Actually, I could argue that the issue in the first place was the distribution of faction relations. My previous rep balance (positive with everyone save raiders, truceable with all save raiders and BLTS) was achieved almost entirely off hunting raiders, then knocking some merchants around as long as their rep was at or above respected. Should my Privateer rep really be amazing when all I do most days is knock around a faction that is effectively frenemies with them, and would not hesitate to shoot them if they came around an area I am actually active in? Should my Civ/Merchant rep be neutral- regardless of how much I hurt their enemies because I myself employ mutants to great effect in order to do so? I don't know. At present, I'm not necessarily mad at the change (in fact, if anything I see it as a good thing, particularly considering my whole "well, if you're willing to put the work in, you should be able to ensure safe passage between two or so towns, but not necessarily more), but it does put me in a very awkward position where if I want to be in good standing with the home team in any city I'm active in, I now have to hunt considerably more gangs that are outside my "normal" reach or hunt those I am slightly opposed to hitting. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 30, 2015, 1:26 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 RotaryJunkie said: Actually, speaking of Morgan faction, I'd almost hazard a guess that it was the issue in the first place. I know of zero players who'd managed the balancing act without being Morgan primary, perhaps this has something to do with exactly zero factions having negative feelings towards Morgan itself? In fact, exactly zero factions have any feelings one way or the other about MO.  You may be right. Morgan was added much later than the others, and of course the town was supposed to be unknown and out of contact with the rest. Perhaps this needs to change, and relationships with other factions added? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 1:58 pm

RotaryJunkie Foul Play Sunday Driver Morgan Faction Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: Aug 31, 2014 That would likely work. Also, I've come to the conclusion that because of my present rep status, I absolutely cannot improve my Civ or Merchant rep until I manage to drop two or so factions to neutral, trouble being Morgan and Privateers. There's no way to drop their rep without digging a hole with one of the factions I want to wind up positive with... And even then, any attempt to drag them back up effectively will drag the Privateers back up as well. So short of losing my mind and making literally everyone hate me, I'm now forced into a pure piracy style of play just to continue making money. Or I could quit Darkwind for however many weeks it actually takes to neutral my rep back out and then work back from that point... Not much of a good option. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 30, 2015, 2:16 pm

d0dger an0maly Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,492 Joined: Jan 24, 2010 RotaryJunkie said: That would likely work. Also, I've come to the conclusion that because of my present rep status, I absolutely cannot improve my Civ or Merchant rep until I manage to drop two or so factions to neutral, trouble being Morgan and Privateers. There's no way to drop their rep without digging a hole with one of the factions I want to wind up positive with... And even then, any attempt to drag them back up effectively will drag the Privateers back up as well. So short of losing my mind and making literally everyone hate me, I'm now forced into a pure piracy style of play just to continue making money. Or I could quit Darkwind for however many weeks it actually takes to neutral my rep back out and then work back from that point... Not much of a good option. Or kill raiders? ......................... vet wv combat1 combatL1 paintladder pvp5 sssc deathrceL1 pvp4 zom race1 semiprocombat deathrce1 raceL1 pvp3 pvp2 ww pvp1 paintball santa2 gwped4,16,10 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 2:59 pm

RotaryJunkie Foul Play Sunday Driver Morgan Faction Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: Aug 31, 2014 Wasn't working. Possible workaround found involving abuse of joining and leaving primary factions, may be able to negrep the Privateers. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 30, 2015, 3:07 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I can reset all your reps, if you like. This is the sort of thing I'm always happy to offer following a rule change. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 3:37 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 *sam* said: I can reset all your reps, if you like. This is the sort of thing I'm always happy to offer following a rule change. There are going to be quite a few players most likely requesting this. I will pass their requests onto you as quickly as possible when they are brought to my attention. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 5:55 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Thanks! I don't think very many people would have had the new code triggered on them though. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 6:08 pm

RotaryJunkie Foul Play Sunday Driver Morgan Faction Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: Aug 31, 2014 It seems as if it's been triggered on pretty much anyone with any form of a reputation; as it sits now, because it is impossible for more than 5 factions to be at any form of positive rep, everyone is "stuck" with whoever they wound up positive with until they manage to knock someone back to neutral or lower... If they are even able to. Never have I ever had my rep absolutely not move after 5+ hard scouts after a single faction. Well, until today. Then I hit some BL anarchists and once again no change. Edit: Rep reset in effect, 2 scouts in, no change as of yet. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 30, 2015, 6:49 pm Last edited Oct 30, 2015, 7:31 pm by RotaryJunkie

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 RotaryJunkie said: It seems as if it's been triggered on pretty much anyone with any form of a reputation; as it sits now, because it is impossible for more than 5 factions to be at any form of positive rep, everyone is "stuck" with whoever they wound up positive with until they manage to knock someone back to neutral or lower... If they are even able to. Never have I ever had my rep absolutely not move after 5+ hard scouts after a single faction. Well, until today. Then I hit some BL anarchists and once again no change. Edit: Rep reset in effect, 2 scouts in, no change as of yet. They are changing (I can see the numbers) but have not gone outside the 'neutral' description yet ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Oct 30, 2015, 7:34 pm

RotaryJunkie Foul Play Sunday Driver Morgan Faction Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: Aug 31, 2014 Aye, raiders dropped to "unappreciated" right as head popped on the next roll. ......................... vet wv Posted Oct 30, 2015, 7:36 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 Has any thought been given to one slight loophole in this fix? First, this is a better idea than the last, Thanks Sam. Second: what about a Loophole that exists? Some factions will truce with you even when Unappreciated or Neutral: -Merchants -Civs -Evan Reds -Deathrace Mafia -Badlands Truckstop -Morgan When I was privateer Faction right after Morgan came into existence I was able to truce nearly everyone because I was very high Rep with Privateer, Slaver, Anarchist and Mutant.  I was Unappreciated by Evan Reds and Civs, Neutral with Merchants, DRM, and BLT.  Adored in Morgan. As such I was able to Truce those 10 factions (with a rare exception occurring within my own faction when I got a single gang that always refused to truce despite being Privateers.  Never figured that one out) Anyway, if this only triggers when you are good rep with over 1/2 the factions, what if I'm careful and only rep-up with 5 of the 11 factions and then Neutral-Truce with the 6 that will Truce at Neutral or worse? (Next post: Goat calling me an imbecil and that I don't know what im talking about while he blows up his gang in a fleet of fire trucks) ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Oct 31, 2015, 5:41 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 *StCrispin* said: Anyway, if this only triggers when you are good rep with over 1/2 the factions, what if I'm careful and only rep-up with 5 of the 11 factions and then Neutral-Truce with the 6 that will Truce at Neutral or worse? What 5 factions would allow this to happen? ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Oct 31, 2015, 8:28 am

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 *The X Man* said: *StCrispin* said: Anyway, if this only triggers when you are good rep with over 1/2 the factions, what if I'm careful and only rep-up with 5 of the 11 factions and then Neutral-Truce with the 6 that will Truce at Neutral or worse? What 5 factions would allow this to happen? The 5 faction out of the 11 that require positive rep to truce.  Mutant, Anarchist, Slaver, Raider, Privateer. Because the other 6 will truce at Unappreciated and Neutral depending on the faction ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Oct 31, 2015, 8:30 am

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 I think this is a good point. I have not been able to truce with your stated factions at respected, even my own chosen faction, but most of the time can truce. ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted Oct 31, 2015, 11:39 am

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