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Announcing the new Camp Wars system

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *jimmylogan* said: *StCrispin* said: (By the way, congrats on the baby, goat.  Boy or girl?) Aren't commas good? :-) Congrats!!! They do help a bit - although it is, i guess, both a 'baby goat' and a 'baby, goat' in some way. thanks Crispin.... Boy (to add to the earlier girl) ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 13, 2020, 1:27 pm

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 congrats on the "kidd" ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Aug 13, 2020, 6:37 pm

*StCrispin* Beasts of the Lair Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 2,657 Joined: Feb 13, 2012 so quick question. I had a car at a camp that was at 10% chassis and was needing fixed once I got enough CPs there to fix it. so Ive been trying to stockpile them... Today I go in there to see if I finally brought in enough and My Custom Armored Cav skin (RudeReality custom) BPU is missing. This is a cherished vehicle as Rude no longer plays. What might have happened to it? Or if someone has it, might you consider returning it? The camp is Open PvP so im guessing somone attacked and took it, though ive never had that occur from an attack anywhere else before. Not sure if thats a thing or not. Also concerned they might break it down for scrap since it needed fixed from the camp being dormant and it getting stuck there. ......................... vet wv gwped paintladder paintball marshal raceL10,1,0 Posted Aug 14, 2020, 2:36 am

Grimm Sykes Sand xbzyas Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Banned Posts: 1,372 Joined: Mar 14, 2010 attacking undefended camp using the old system meant the attacking player looted vehicles. if activities go back far enough, it should show who attacked ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 Posted Aug 14, 2020, 11:15 am

KingEridani Landless Gentry Sunday Driver Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: Oct 9, 2015 Not to commit threadomancy, and nor do I have any leads on any missing BPU, but... I wanted to chime in on this thread with a (hopefully helpful) new player's perspective on PVP. The way I see players' progression in DW from my admittedly limited vantage point goes like this: Newb: Just made an account - played some town events - just starting their first garage New Player: maybe sub'd, maybe not - has a stable but small garage for town events and scouting out of SS Early Game: probably sub'd at this point - has a growing garage and operations in Northern Triangle - Getting the first four specs on your gangers - PVE scouting is king of income at this stage, northern triangle parcel is pitiful and PVP is just as inaccessibly high level in NorT as it is down south. This is where things get a little fuzzy for me, and where I have experienced a rather deterring feeling of not-knowing-how-to-proceed. Mid Game: definitely sub'd, maybe off and on, but with at least occasional regularity to fill up gangers and garage - Has a bevy of vehicles in various towns - Gangers getting up to the primary skill rating 200 with up to 8 specs from side training - ... I have yet to really get to this marker so I'm guessing here ... These gangs are starting operations in the South, whether that be setting up to move bulk goods from town to town, doing Southern PVE scouting, or starting to be recruitable for Camps. Late Game: Sub'd likely all the time for the training boosts - Cars all around Evan and probable membership in one or more player Camps - Gangers hit a new skill:age roof thru Southern and PVP xp boosters, so you see relatively healthy gangers with 300+ skills and buttloads of specs - These players can run any town event they want, scout from anywhere (but probably have 1 or 2 main areas), regularly run camp cargo and logistic travels, and have access to DW$ making schemes that simply aren't viable without high skill gangers in chromey phat cars. Whale Tier: Players like Longo, X-Man, Joel, Goat... (sorry if I missed anyone) These are the whale tier players that are essential to the Playershpere of DW. They operate so many resources by comparison to all other types of players that any player who has not hit their late game stride, may as well have no effect on their decision-making. What does all this have to do with Camp Wars systems? Well after reading through this topic, I felt called to respond to *Sam*'s stated intent to get more players involved in Camps (especially wars) and make Camps (and wars) necessarily more cooperative. My first major point of discussion: While I don't disagree with a CR limit, nor do I think *any* system will completely eliminate the occasional need for a moderative eye, perhaps we are overly-much approaching the systems design from a rulemaker's perspective. In praxiology we look at an actor's motivations and valuations from both the negative (limiting, deterring, risky) perspective, AND the positive (opportunity-creating, incentivized, rewarding). So, not to replace the 'whip' of a 750CR limit, but perhaps consider in addition providing a better 'carrot' than simple raised ganger xp. Perhaps by further mitigating risk (mercenary idea is a great step in right direction), creating financial rewards for newb-veteran relations, or having stone-in-pond economic effects on towns. On the related note of praxis, time is valuable and while auto-resolution does sound like an intimidating factor, especially considering the vast disparity of wealth of players spread throughout the career stages of DW, it is an essential mechanic to preserving the playability of the late game, especially if more player entrants are desired. Surely this mechanic can be refined to be fair and no more random than say for example the scouting mechanics, an accounted for risk factor for all. Financial rewards brings me to another major point of discussion. Moving Evan to a (moreso) player-run economy. I am glad to hear this process is being approached with care and intent. A deliberate and measured pace of rollout here (as has been well done with new Hex and Camp wars systems) will be essential to crafting a stable system. *Sam* you brought up Eve Online... As anyone who was present at B-R5RB will know, large scale PVP conflicts can ruin accounts and result in player loss. I understand a 'Tarkovian' 'always-at-risk-of-loss' feeling of danger is a core design element in Darkwind, but that does not mean players should be risking 'it all' by turning on their PVP flag, especially when loss in battle already carries material and personnel risks. I am not a fan of Home Tile loss, and am glad, that if it must be included, it is at least behind a long large process shielding against vendetta/outscaling murder. To move the game toward a more player based economy, one in which ideally the price of goods is reflected by the demands of player camps in the area without increasing the risk of unsightly market swings from playerdeath or systems exploit, my recommendation is thus: Make all player interactions generate wealth in the area in which they happened. This could take the form of flat-rate universal PVP bounties, tile income improvements, or nearest-town market effects. The intended purpose being that when material (overall value) is lost in PVP, that overall value of all players in the game (with localization to the event) is less reduced. Semi-related: Someone earlier on this topic brought up realism. Darkwind is not a Simulation game. Although it uses many excellent tropes from the genre to give the game an excellent verisimilitude for a post-apocalyptic wasteland, it is first and foremost a strategy game. If assed, I would probably classify it as an MMOTBSG (turn based strategy) with a strong penchant for rouge-like and simulation. Last talking point here: I think we can all agree that we would benefit from more players playing the game at various levels. There are three critical factors to increasing the general feeling of high occupancy. New user hits, Subscriber(or 'veteran') conversion rate, and career player retention. First is getting new players to the game. The game is too entrenched to much improve on look or UI and unless someone is hiding the indie-game equivelant of an angel investor in their back pocket, we won't be seeing DWII. So it is a given that new players must be okay with web-menus and the Bavarian-Motor-Werks in the 80's aesthetic. Thats okay, but this shouldn't mean we have to trawl around forums like its only 10 years later. There needs to be more ability for new players to access both game reference materials AND communicate with veterans. @*Sam* would it be possible to integrate a web-based IRC with the in-game chat to allow for increased communication? Second is turning those new players into subscribing, hardcore fans. The game does this pretty much on its own. In particular the feeling of progression and attachment to your assets is done just right. It is a tad slow to getting your first vehicle but then you're off to the races. (I heard many newbs received a gifted vehicle from a vet hanging out in chat, and have given a few myself, so its not a BIG issue but) I recommend making this floor slightly lower, since (at least for me) building the garage has been one of the most rewarding aspects of the game, and is a great hook for newbies Third is player (reader? sorry...) retention. I dropped off playing for a few years due to just one of the quagmires I discuss below, and I wonder how many other players can relate... There are a few bottlenecks that discussing will be of benefit. First is landing - it can be kind of rough. Getting into the tutorial is easy enough but once its over, you're left a bit spinning-tyres on how to actually manually get done the things the helpful people in the lobby or on the wiki have recommended. I think a site-guide or tutorial would be a massive improvement to this first bottleneck. Becoming an SS regular from there is pretty smooth, you dabble in the (poorly-paying) Northern Triangle travel game, you probably end up PVE scouting with friendlies in chat. The next bottleneck arrives at different times for different players and playstyles but ultimately is unified by having passed the mark of self-sufficiency enough to safely explore solo-operations and looking from there how continue growing their DW gang in meaningful ways, usually with an eye on 'how to do I get to late-game from here'. ((if you couldn't tell, this is where I feel I am at)). Once again, I'm not sure from first-hand experience how this goes, but from whats been intimated to me and my own inferences it seems there is another bottleneck for players who have achieved actual veterency, have big southern operations that pulled in good money, and probably started a camp, trying to get to the place Whales the-likes-of-which-compete-in-CoEII or other top tier events. To summarize, there are some critical stopgaps in player progression to be addressed to get players to the recruitable level for PVP in the first place, so any work done there will help improve the feeling of 'cooperation' and dampen any feeling of 'clique-y-ness' by improving the player pool. Lastly I want to add that y'all like to bicker. *Sam* deserves only love. You sound so ungrateful and disrespectful decrying new renovations to the game as being 'from-the-hip'. I have only admiration and applause for Harry who seems to the earnest and interested newcoming mediator to an entrenched table that many of us wish we could be. TL;DR: -Any system that is perceived to be inaccessible to players below a certain value (garage, ability, finance) will be perceived to be a 'rich get richer' whale-servicing scheme. Solution? Service new players too. -Give more positive incentive for players to interact with PVP in general, and for veterans to form relations with newer-than-them players. -Player run economies (especially with low population) still need 'social' safety nets. -Be nicer to *Sam* you asshats. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 9, 2021, 4:38 pm

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