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Announcing the new Camp Wars system

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 *Longo* said: *sam* said: Krakhedd said: *sam* said: How about this: - Change the weekly camp update day to Sundays - Have the server pick combat dates that are the following weekend, i.e. 7 days notice so you can agree changes as necessary - Have automatic wins if the CR balance is 4:1 or greater I think this is a bad idea.  Show up to play or lose, regardless the advantage.  That is the Darkwind way; else wise, we wouldn't have renegades, would we? Joel proved that this rule *is* necessary, by wasting everyone's time this morning. I'm also removing the 500m auto-escape rule for these combats. Everyone seems to agree with that. It would have been better if you just told me though Joel, rather than proving your point by misusing it. Sam- Auto wins could be dangerous if the odds are not obvious. Like I said before, I would role 1 to 4 odds myself. But not 10 to 1 odds. The Vault vs Camp David last week was 2 to 1 odds, and you saw the result yourself. So if your going to make an auto win, please keep this in mind. Im thinking a really good player that can fight against the odds and always has good strategy, such as Joel or Xman, could potentially do serious damage and have a chance of winning on odds up to 5 to 1, so maybe start here and adjust if need be? This could be adjusted if we see more issues down the road. I get your point. It's also about reducing the amount of combats - especially waste-of-time ones. So there's a trade-off.. is it worth occasionally auto-deciding a combat that could have been competitive, in order to save a lot of wasted time on others? I'd say yes, within reason. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 30, 2020, 1:34 pm Last edited May 30, 2020, 1:35 pm by *sam*

Tez Blood Roses Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 579 Joined: Sep 13, 2009 I'm strongly against auto wins in PvP ......................... vet wv combat1 pvp3 pvp51,4,0 Posted May 30, 2020, 1:39 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,006 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 especially if pre decided ones what if they have high cr and not everyone shows up, people could just send huge cr squads to auto win, i know ill pull out of this if im pre decided to loose a battle i intended on fighting with 2 cars vs 14 i get those odds regularly in sv. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted May 30, 2020, 1:45 pm

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 *sam* said: *Longo* said: *sam* said: Krakhedd said: *sam* said: How about this: - Change the weekly camp update day to Sundays - Have the server pick combat dates that are the following weekend, i.e. 7 days notice so you can agree changes as necessary - Have automatic wins if the CR balance is 4:1 or greater I think this is a bad idea.  Show up to play or lose, regardless the advantage.  That is the Darkwind way; else wise, we wouldn't have renegades, would we? Joel proved that this rule *is* necessary, by wasting everyone's time this morning. I'm also removing the 500m auto-escape rule for these combats. Everyone seems to agree with that. It would have been better if you just told me though Joel, rather than proving your point by misusing it. Sam- Auto wins could be dangerous if the odds are not obvious. Like I said before, I would role 1 to 4 odds myself. But not 10 to 1 odds. The Vault vs Camp David last week was 2 to 1 odds, and you saw the result yourself. So if your going to make an auto win, please keep this in mind. Im thinking a really good player that can fight against the odds and always has good strategy, such as Joel or Xman, could potentially do serious damage and have a chance of winning on odds up to 5 to 1, so maybe start here and adjust if need be? This could be adjusted if we see more issues down the road. I get your point. It's also about reducing the amount of combats - especially waste-of-time ones. So there's a trade-off.. is it worth occasionally auto-deciding a combat that could have been competitive, in order to save a lot of wasted time on others? I'd say yes, within reason. I was going to bring this up at the next camp wars meeting, but since it is being brought up, here is a recommendation. I discussed this already with longo yesterday to minimize battles. The battles with Camp David and The Vault makes this more of a need. Currently, there are 4 hex tiles that will each have a fight. Honestly, that is way too many IMO. To make this less chaotic, anytime 2 camps have multiple hex tiles to fight in a week, it becomes ONE fight for ALL the hex tiles. If that seems too much, consider half? Regardless of the hex tile reward (player vote), this makes battles much easier to manage, especially if you have other camps to fight. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted May 31, 2020, 6:17 am

FireFly Anarcho-Pumpkin Privateers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 5,468 Joined: Mar 3, 2008 X, not to presume but my reading is that you want a system based on control points/nodes, something likely more workable with a lower player base. I'm not sure refitting the current system into that without making major redesign passes is a good thing tho, as it's a rather different style than the current design... again, as far as I understand it. I assume that such a system was brought up but rejected in favor of the wargame-lite we have now. I would be interested to if such a node based system was discussed, and if anyone is willing to share why the wargame was picked over that. ......................... vet wv zom gateautumn deathrceL1 elmsautumn pvp1 pvp2 sssc raceL1 e2g combatL1 santa1 pvp3 gwextrav ww circuit32,18,0 Posted May 31, 2020, 6:47 am Last edited May 31, 2020, 6:55 am by FireFly

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 I was just offering a suggestion to Sam saying he wanted to reduce combats. Something that needs to be discussed among the players. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted May 31, 2020, 6:58 am

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 The alternatives i can see to auto wins are 1) people using the concede button in a reasonable and mature manner 2) an arbitrary and no doubt contentious set of penalties if people are seen to be abusing the ability to make lots of low CR events 3) a change to minimum tile deployment and maximum occupied hexes attacked. I would prefer number 1. As for X's idea. It is an awful idea on millions of levels. 1. It removes any tactical play on the hex map. 2. It automatically unbalanced towards the stronger camp 4. It will make large time consuming fights instead of quick ones. And then millions more ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted May 31, 2020, 9:35 am Last edited May 31, 2020, 9:44 am by *goat starer*

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,006 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 dont know how all this will end up turning out, but part of a strategy imo is to use 750 cr squads and fight multiple fronts if you attack someone, deploy to 5 or 6 of their hex tiles, now that is like booo too much attacking, lol, why not just give free stuff to camp owners while your at it, it looks like thats your goal not to have multiple hex tiles get attacked, but dole out resourses. just seems to me to be getting worse and worse, carebears will win another one making things way to easy. oh well was fun while it lasted i guesss. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted May 31, 2020, 11:03 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Darth, you clearly have no idea about the intricacies and balancing involved in running a multiplayer game. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 31, 2020, 11:39 am

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,006 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 your right i obviously dont, but from my point of view things are already too easy, getting all these new tiles to add to camp its like monty hall give out free stuff and when you work hard, owe that doesnt matter, that guy cant fight that much its unfair to him. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted May 31, 2020, 12:39 pm

*HarryRed* Harrys Hippos Racer Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 139 Joined: May 3, 2009 yeah i think people need to be more patient with this whole process. We knew from the start it was gonna take alot of finetuning as does every major overhaul to any game but the fundementals are there. That big first battle between krakk and goat was good fun and that was even with mismatches cr and a restrictive map. I for one cant wait for the omegabattle upcoming between X and Longo ......................... vet wv gwextrav combatL1 marshal Posted May 31, 2020, 1:27 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *HarryRed* said: yeah i think people need to be more patient with this whole process. We knew from the start it was gonna take alot of finetuning as does every major overhaul to any game but the fundementals are there. That big first battle between krakk and goat was good fun and that was even with mismatches cr and a restrictive map. I for one cant wait for the omegabattle upcoming between X and Longo  Why should we? Could have tested another 3000 CR battle this week.  But goat didnt do it.  Why do we have to do it? In fact it looks like the name of the game is mob smaller camps with 4:1 cr battles now. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted May 31, 2020, 4:54 pm Last edited May 31, 2020, 6:54 pm by Joel Autobaun

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Joel Autobaun said: *HarryRed* said: yeah i think people need to be more patient with this whole process. We knew from the start it was gonna take alot of finetuning as does every major overhaul to any game but the fundementals are there. That big first battle between krakk and goat was good fun and that was even with mismatches cr and a restrictive map. I for one cant wait for the omegabattle upcoming between X and Longo  Why should we? Could have tested another 3000 CR battle this week.  But goat didnt do it.  Why do we have to do it? In fact it looks like the name of the game is mob smaller camps with 4:1 cr battles now. How did I not do it? I deployed my cr sensibly. Krak deployed his as though I was an idiot. That's all on you guys. Thinking about deployment is most of this game. We just played it well. He also stuck his camp right next to ours .. presumably at your instigation. Which means you get no benefit from diminishing CR. That was another odd choice. But I'm sure it's all my fault! ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted May 31, 2020, 8:00 pm Last edited May 31, 2020, 8:02 pm by *goat starer*

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *goat starer* said: Joel Autobaun said: *HarryRed* said: yeah i think people need to be more patient with this whole process. We knew from the start it was gonna take alot of finetuning as does every major overhaul to any game but the fundementals are there. That big first battle between krakk and goat was good fun and that was even with mismatches cr and a restrictive map. I for one cant wait for the omegabattle upcoming between X and Longo  Why should we? Could have tested another 3000 CR battle this week.  But goat didnt do it.  Why do we have to do it? In fact it looks like the name of the game is mob smaller camps with 4:1 cr battles now. How did I not do it? I deployed my cr sensibly. Krak deployed his as though I was an idiot. That's all on you guys. Thinking about deployment is most of this game. We just played it well. He also stuck his camp right next to ours .. presumably at your instigation. Which means you get no benefit from diminishing CR. That was another odd choice. But I'm sure it's all my fault! Oh no clearly you blame me for ...everything.  My fault obviously. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted May 31, 2020, 8:19 pm

*HarryRed* Harrys Hippos Racer Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 139 Joined: May 3, 2009 you guys are approaching this in an unproductive manner. All of us here want to make this a funner game - and we can. You can't expect balance to be perfect on rollout ......................... vet wv gwextrav combatL1 marshal Posted May 31, 2020, 9:29 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *HarryRed* said: you guys are approaching this in an unproductive manner. All of us here want to make this a funner game - and we can. You can't expect balance to be perfect on rollout we have approached it with pure fun  ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted May 31, 2020, 9:55 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 *HarryRed* said: you guys are approaching this in an unproductive manner. All of us here want to make this a funner game - and we can. You can't expect balance to be perfect on rollout I didn't expect that Harry, but I am getting called an exploiter for playing it. (the unbalanced imperfection). ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted May 31, 2020, 9:58 pm Last edited May 31, 2020, 9:58 pm by Joel Autobaun

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,006 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 your both wrong obviosly everything is my fault muhahahahahaha ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted May 31, 2020, 10:29 pm

*Bastille* Raging Scavengers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 7,513 Joined: Mar 31, 2009 Joel Autobaun said: *HarryRed* said: you guys are approaching this in an unproductive manner. All of us here want to make this a funner game - and we can. You can't expect balance to be perfect on rollout I didn't expect that Harry, but I am getting called an exploiter for playing it. (the unbalanced imperfection). :facepalm: ......................... marshal vet wv pvp4 zom cont pvp32,12,1 Posted May 31, 2020, 11:10 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *Bastille* said: Joel Autobaun said: *HarryRed* said: you guys are approaching this in an unproductive manner. All of us here want to make this a funner game - and we can. You can't expect balance to be perfect on rollout I didn't expect that Harry, but I am getting called an exploiter for playing it. (the unbalanced imperfection). :facepalm: i know...  ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted May 31, 2020, 11:16 pm

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