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Great idea! A couple quirks you/we might run into.

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 No that was one example. Take your best gangers into a fight - the game pours the hate on you - so it seems. The thing is, that loss hurt - a LOT. But that ganger would be dead of old age anyway now. Don't think you guys can understand that just yet...do you lose gangers too fast? I don't know... The main thing to remember here is, this isn't town events, this isn't SCL, this isn't leagues and this isn't even intercepts. This has never been done yet in this game. Sure we are all guessing outcomes. I honestly do think there is a PvE angle to this strat system. I absolutely do not think *I* will dominate at all. I might not even put "The Alley" in this. However I will participate if I can. A global system which can cause more effect on the game world, are you kidding me: AWESOME?!! Not everything is about "winning" and "losing". Sometimes just playing is fun. I came in 3rd place in Coe2 last week and worse in COE1- that was the most fun I've had since robinhood used to try to take my head off. So I don't blame anyone for keeping their camp out of it. But let's not generally piss on the idea because some people have good gangers. That's absurd. The best gangers have an advantage yes - do NOT always win, trust me. And when they lose sometimes they REALLY lose. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 12:00 am

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 *goat starer* said: the fact that players would have a cap on merc hires would automatically make it attractive to have a newer player hire some and join you. camp wars have always got a bunch of newer players involved. they have always had less to lose... and with merc hires will have even less. and frankly nobody has to do it... you can play, run a camp etc without ever joining in. that's your loss. so why anyone is saying "i wont do it but i think i should be able to shape it" is entirely beyond me. That's a funny way to tell some of us that we can't have an opinion or give any constructive criticism. Would you prefer "I won't do it but I won't tell you why"?  Especially from someone that still considers them a new player?  I heard a lot of talk during the Discord Town Hall about getting new players involved.  As it currently stands, with the limited info we have posted and what I heard during the Town Hall, it's a really hard sell. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 12:06 am

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 Joel Autobaun said: This has never been done yet in this game.  Sure we are all guessing outcomes.  I honestly do think there is a PvE angle to this strat system.  A global system which can cause more effect on the game world, are you kidding me: AWESOME?!! But let's not generally piss on the idea because some people have good gangers. I quoted only the parts relevant to my reply.  Earlier I quoted that it just really needs to be looked at if you want newer players involved.  I'm echoing that statement.  I went into my concerns for the system.  As more info comes out about the mechanics of the system, I reserve the right to change my opinion.  If my long-winded posts get Harry, Sam and Co. to take just another 5 minutes to think about the system, cool.  I really do think what they are building will add another level of depth to the game.  I'm looking forward to more information as well. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 12:15 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Dropdeadfred said: *goat starer* said: the fact that players would have a cap on merc hires would automatically make it attractive to have a newer player hire some and join you. camp wars have always got a bunch of newer players involved. they have always had less to lose... and with merc hires will have even less. and frankly nobody has to do it... you can play, run a camp etc without ever joining in. that's your loss. so why anyone is saying "i wont do it but i think i should be able to shape it" is entirely beyond me. That's a funny way to tell some of us that we can't have an opinion or give any constructive criticism. Would you prefer "I won't do it but I won't tell you why"?  Especially from someone that still considers them a new player?  I heard a lot of talk during the Discord Town Hall about getting new players involved.  As it currently stands, with the limited info we have posted and what I heard during the Town Hall, it's a really hard sell. I think new players aren't going to have camps right??  Like what is a new player these days and what is a vet?  Don't even know, honestly. Truly new players are going to like to get paid 10K or something from a vet to scout towards their camp, maybe run parts to camps for stuff etc.  Probably be very similar to what it is now.  They probably won't know what's going on or notice a difference. Other people will watch this camp game play out and decide if they like it or want to participate....like anything else. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 12:17 am

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 Joel Autobaun said: I think new players aren't going to have camps right??  Like what is a new player these days and what is a vet?  Don't even know, honestly. Truly new players are going to like to get paid 10K or something from a vet to scout towards their camp, maybe run parts to camps for stuff etc.  Probably be very similar to what it is now.  They probably won't know what's going on or notice a difference. Other people will watch this camp game play out and decide if they like it or want to participate....like anything else. Really good question, right?  There really isn't a hard line that defines it.  Do you have a camp?  Much more likely a vet.  I'm sure there's plenty of people that I would consider vets that don't own camps though. I consider myself a newer player and here's some factors why.  I've never really scouted outside of SS.  The one time I tried to move Lorries with an escort I was brutally thrashed.  I've been to Firelight a couple times to pick up gangers from the Pits.  I have no idea what Morgan is about.  I'm not sure how I'd move the slower cars from town to town as even my single car travels can sometimes pull 4:1 or 5:1 odds (or worse further south), so I just buy them.  I can solo scout SS without an issue 95% of the time (returns can sometimes get dicey).  I have a few gangers over 100 in some skills.  I have a single ganger with a weapon skill over 150 (handgunner doesn't count).  I've only just recently learned how to muscle scout.  I try to participate in the leagues.  ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 12:29 am

*HarryRed* Harrys Hippos Racer Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 139 Joined: May 3, 2009 Most of the vets you are talking about started playing in the era of unlimited PvP where their 20 skill guys in pickup trucks could get ambushed outside somerset and red texted by anyone at any time... the reason they are successful is because they loved the game and they found a way to make their way in a brutal world. That was then. There is now CR limiting, geographical CR restrictions, hired mercs, teleporting characters into a foot squad as well as vast character developmental and resource incentives being proposed to make PvP less prickly. If you still don’t want to PvP with all those measures in place my guess is you actually don’t want to PvP at all, and there is nothing anyone could do to actually incentivize you to do it. Which is fine. Some people like to play dark wind as a PVE FarmVille apocalypse tycoon game and there is absalutely nothing wrong with that. That being said trying to tailor a PvP system to players who fundamentally don’t want or enjoy PvP doesn’t make too much sense. We should bend the system in order to make it more palatable... but when you talk about PvP with no stakes where everyone has safety pads on it loses the brutality and the stakes that makes PvP successful in games like EvE. ......................... vet wv gwextrav combatL1 marshal Posted Mar 29, 2020, 12:37 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 I have not been fortunate enough to sit in on any of these meetings to hear the discussions, but what I have read here in this forum, there is a lot of concern about high skilled gangers being used against of lower skilled gangers. So bare with me on my comments because I am not sure how things are supposed to work, but I have a suggestion that may make a difference to the above concern. If there is a vehicle CR restriction and it does not change regardless of what skill gangers are used, why not have a ganger skill cap? Whatever hex tile is clicked for battle, based on its location of the board, it comes with a ganger skill cap. Not a skill cap, but a skill total cap of all gangers used. Say the hex tile selected has 500 skill cap. This means you can bring 5 gangers at 100 skill each, 2 at 250 or 10 at 50. So a vet could bring 2 at 250 and maybe face a noob gang who brings 10 at 50. This could hopefully be used as an equalizer because the new gangs could hold their own by being able to use more against the vet that would be using less characters. We all know, in this scenario, 4 higher skilled guns facing would be at a disadvantage facing 10 lesser skilled guns. This would affect stress and other factors that can slowly make this a more competitive match. I was late to the camp party, so if this cant work or doesn't fit for whatever reason, scrap the suggestion. It was just an attempt to make battles competitive between players with different character skill levels. Maybe someone else can spin off of this and take it in a different direction. ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 12:46 am Last edited Mar 29, 2020, 12:47 am by *The X Man*

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 During the Town Hall, Sam asked if the system was even wanted or going to be used since there's a time investment involved to create it and a joke about Scavs was made. The posts above are the answers from two of us that are currently saying no. Perhaps stopping to take a look around and 'reading the room', so to speak, is in order? Lets use some current data that anyone can access about PvP in Darkwind, the Leagues. Unfortunately, it looks like a bit of the data can't be seen, but from what we can see... Somerset Race League, 37 different gangs with points on the board. Northern Semi Pro Combat League, 4 gangs have points. Somerset Pedestrian Combat League, 8 gangs have points COE 1, 12 gangs have points COE 2, 8 gangs have points Looking at the data, your players are more likely to get involved in something that's lower risk to their gangers. If you feel the programming time is better spent working on yet another PvP system, well, I guess that's your choice. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:03 am

lostsoul214 Rats of the Sand Pedestrian Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 22 Joined: Feb 26, 2009 I won't be joining in because I wont stand a chance. It takes years to get to where most of these guys are at. I'm just saying it's unlikely to get newer guys involved when they can be slaughtered from twice the distance they can hit at. I really am not saying do it my way. I was just thinking people might just take a look at what they can do to involve them since they wanted that to happen. You are right though, since I won't be joining in I have nothing more to say about. I'll see myself to the door. ......................... vet wv northernsummer0,9,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:18 am

*HarryRed* Harrys Hippos Racer Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 139 Joined: May 3, 2009 There’s like 6 league races a day which people often just join randomly which give points in the league while COE is one day a week at specific times in specific towns which you have to plan for so the comparison doesn’t really hold up. Also I don’t have data on this but I feel pretty confident in saying that COE is the event with the single most attendees most weeks, I think there was above 10 in a few of them last Sunday. Which is pretty extraordinary when you think about it - no CR restrictions, no skill cap, no rules about teaming. The funniest thing about that example is it was the people with expensive gear and amazing characters that actually lost those races - Joel and Longo didn’t even place in either of them as far as I know. Just shows that with teamwork and hard work the David’s can team up and beat the Goliath. That is if they have the right attitude. ......................... vet wv gwextrav combatL1 marshal Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:23 am

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 *The X Man* said: So, maybe 15?? actual players?? I couldn't check off the usefulness box when so few out of the player base could be the only ones participating. Don't get me wrong, I really like Harry's idea. I just want to know that there is going to be players, a lot more, wanting this and will use this. So we need to hear from as many players possible, get the lobby chatter going, talk to your DW buddies, lets make it happen! *HarryRed* said: There’s like 6 league races a day which people often just join randomly which give points in the league while COE is one day a week at specific times in specific towns which you have to plan for so the comparison doesn’t really hold up. Northern Semi Pro Combat League is in SS.  Somerset Pedestrian Combat League is in SS.  The comparison does hold up.  X Man's quote is spot on.  Are there going to be a lot of players?  Right now, the data points to no. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:33 am

*The X Man* Better Off Dead Darkwind Guru Slavers Faction Group: Game Manager Posts: 2,207 Joined: Jul 25, 2012 One thing I haven't heard yet is whats at stake?? What do you earn or win?? ......................... vet wv marshal paintladder zom circuit3 paintball raceL1 race1 pvp4 hammer circuit2 pvp2 circuit1 gwped pvp5 pvp3 pvp1 deathrceL1 triangle1 combatL1 elmsautumn combat1 northernsummer1,3,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:37 am

*HarryRed* Harrys Hippos Racer Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 139 Joined: May 3, 2009 Dropdeadfred said: *The X Man* said: So, maybe 15?? actual players?? I couldn't check off the usefulness box when so few out of the player base could be the only ones participating. Don't get me wrong, I really like Harry's idea. I just want to know that there is going to be players, a lot more, wanting this and will use this. So we need to hear from as many players possible, get the lobby chatter going, talk to your DW buddies, lets make it happen! *HarryRed* said: There’s like 6 league races a day which people often just join randomly which give points in the league while COE is one day a week at specific times in specific towns which you have to plan for so the comparison doesn’t really hold up. Northern Semi Pro Combat League is in SS.  Somerset Pedestrian Combat League is in SS.  The comparison does hold up.  X Man's quote is spot on.  Are there going to be a lot of players?  Right now, the data points to no. Ya.. that’s assuming only the camp leaders fight and they don’t choose to get any help lol. Most camps have many many full members and the 2 cars per player restriction means they will have to pay for outside help. As for the league thing - the race league has been running for twice as long and had 4 times the events per day as either of the other leagues you mentioned so not really comparable. Not that leagues which pay like 3k per event are really a good indicator of what players want. Fundamentally this difference is inreconcilable - some people like pvp and some people like a casual experience of fighting pirates. Nothing wrong with that. It will come down to sams best judgment at the end of the day. ......................... vet wv gwextrav combatL1 marshal Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:45 am

*HarryRed* Harrys Hippos Racer Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 139 Joined: May 3, 2009 *The X Man* said: One thing I haven't heard yet is whats at stake?? What do you earn or win?? There’s a lot of ideas floating around, I’ll try to consolidate them into a list tomorrow, it’s past my bedtime rn tho. Rest assured they will be cool and flavorful and worth fighting over ......................... vet wv gwextrav combatL1 marshal Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:47 am

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 *HarryRed* said: Not that leagues which pay like 3k per event are really a good indicator of what players want. That's a completely different can of worms that I've been quiet on.  Your quote may inspire me to put something into the Suggestions forum though. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:55 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Dropdeadfred said: Perhaps stopping to take a look around and 'reading the room', so to speak, is in order?  That's fair. So guys sound off if you interested in the idea at least!?!?!  Was it just me, Goat, Harry and Sam?  ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:55 am Last edited Mar 29, 2020, 2:55 am by Joel Autobaun

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 Joel Autobaun said: Dropdeadfred said: Perhaps stopping to take a look around and 'reading the room', so to speak, is in order?  That's fair. So guys sound off if you interested in the idea at least!?!?!  Was it just me, Goat, Harry and Sam?  <grin>  We both know that the level of forum participation doesn't even come close to the number of players in the game   This is proven time and time again over pretty much any game/guild/clan/etc.  Hell, I probably didn't come to the forums until well after a year of playing or so. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see things added to the game.  I'd love to see things get fixed.  Spending time on a PvP system while the game still has a skill that should really just be called Driver2?  Interesting use of the programming time. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 3:00 am

*HarryRed* Harrys Hippos Racer Evan Reds Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 139 Joined: May 3, 2009 Joel Autobaun said: Dropdeadfred said: Perhaps stopping to take a look around and 'reading the room', so to speak, is in order?  That's fair. So guys sound off if you interested in the idea at least!?!?!  Was it just me, Goat, Harry and Sam?  Someone should make a poll about this ......................... vet wv gwextrav combatL1 marshal Posted Mar 29, 2020, 3:00 am

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Ok I made one. Hopefully get an idea how many are bothered by ganger skill too. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 3:24 am

ShawnFireDragon ScavGhost Autodueller Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: Aug 29, 2017 Ganger Skill is more important than CR I believe. If it is not considered moving forward the imbalance becomes great. ......................... vet wv race1 semiprocombat e2g gwextrav gateautumn sssc raceL1 deathrceL1 combatL1 pvp4 pvp3 paintladder pvp10,1,0 Posted Mar 29, 2020, 2:35 pm

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