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I totally see what people mean when they complain about this game.

Smooch Prong Sunday Driver Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: Dec 16, 2020 It was fun and i had fun. But the game needs SERIOUS work. Step one would be to stop letting cheaters cheat, and stop letting the inmates run the asylum. It was fun for a while, but I will do other things now. Later! ......................... vet wv gwextrav paintladder pvp5 gateautumn ped1 triangle1 pvp40,5,0 Posted Aug 9, 2021, 7:45 pm

Smooch Prong Sunday Driver Mutants Faction Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: Dec 16, 2020 You all talk about new players getting chased off. I am that new player, and I just got chased off by the toxicity of this community. It was a long build up, but it is true that a small and vocal group run the show and their goal seems to to burn down the game and rule the ashes. Sam even said that these power players don’t buy chrome because they don’t have to. So non paying customers are pushing paying customers out the door. Not a good business plan. Good luck to you sir! ......................... vet wv gwextrav paintladder pvp5 gateautumn ped1 triangle1 pvp40,5,0 Posted Aug 9, 2021, 7:52 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Its kind of like in Fortnite when you jump out of the bus, and before you even land, a guy shoots you out of the sky. I suggested to the developers that they should make my controls faster than theirs, due to my age and deteriorating reaction time, but they didnt listen to me. That would be leveling the playing field for me anyways. So to adjust, I try and fight mid to long range, where I can use some strategy and take away necessary reaction times. Ive never won a solo event, but am a good team player and have won many squads, mostly with people Ive never played with before. Its fun, but occasionally some people ruin my fun, and I log off for a while. See you after your rage temp lowers a bit. Enjoy the rest of your summer. -Longo ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 9, 2021, 8:38 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,008 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 at least yer smart enouph to get out now, ive been here for close to 14 years and thats 13 years way to long. you were fun to play with and your enthusiasm for the game was fun to watch, you did a great job imo, learned fast, take care. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Aug 9, 2021, 9:30 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Is this that long play (to take us down) you said you put into effect in the lobby yesterday? ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:29 am

Zazul Melody of Mayhem Racer Morgan Faction Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: Jun 15, 2018 I love this game so much I don't think ill ever quit, and i wouldn't describe myself as a veteran or a beginner, but i do think there's more that could be done for new players. I understand both perspectives as I was really frustrated when i started, and now that I've put in the hours and grinds I don't like the idea of handing the early game to a new guy because I did the painful grind and they wouldn't have to. However when you think about it that's kind of a cruel thing to put on someone new: "I got my ass beat to get here and so should you" doesn't work nowadays when there are so many other good games out there to play. If we want new players to stick around and for the community to grow the current system will never deliver. So my suggestion to keep the 5k+ hour players happy and encourage more new guys to join would be to give a "beginner" status to gangs with less than a certain total ganger skill (not going to do the math at the moment for a solid number). The "beginner" status could give small perks to help grow faster with less resistance like free rental cars that you could customize to find your playstyle, faster skillgains, no weekly fees, and guaranteed NR on scouts in the north triangle. However, there would also be restrictions such as no entry in certain league events like CoE and maybe no pvp or camp memberships until they hit that beginner total skill cap. Having more robust content being a goal to work towards and have a more pleasing experience in the first few weeks would keep more players for longer and once the harsh reality of the game hits them, they would already be hooked. Please bear in mind these are off the top of the head ideas to keep everyone happy and make Sam some more money to make DW2! If we keep the game as it is that would also be fine to me, and I'm sure the other 5 or 10 people in the world who play this on a daily basis with a smile would also be OK with it. But if we actually want new players we need to accept the fact that the majority of people don't want to feel utterly dominated and have to climb that steep learning curve right out of the gate. Sam has done an amazing job with DW imo and the recent addition of solo missions and more training for groups to encourage veterans to lead more scouts are steps in the right direction, but were not quite there yet. Oh and if anyone ever compares DW to Fortnite again I,m going to get a lobotomy LOL! ......................... vet wv gateautumn raceL1 pvp5 paintladder triangle1 circuit2 deathrceL1 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 5:02 am

*Joskney* El Nubnubs Racer Morgan Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 207 Joined: Sep 11, 2014 OOH the chance to Lobotomize Zazul!!! Sorry Zazul, remember me in your will. @Longo, I understand WHAT you are trying to say about Fortnite, but it is a bit a flawed arguement. Everyone jumping out of that bus has the same gear and it falls into skill and play style, every match. -my take, not aimed at anyone. DW for new players is more akin the top players jumping out of the bus have the best Golden Weapons and gear and full shield potions etc, aim assist bots, while the new players only have bottom tier gear and can only work up to top stuff if they can join or beat a Golden player. And if they lose a match, they lose any golden weapons they may have gained. I have alot of stuff compared to new players. Around 17 buzzers as an example. But using Longo as a giant above me, he has more Ambi's than I have Buzzers and he has 4 times the buzzers I have. Losing a Buzzer for me would suck, Longo he would probably be pissed at that gang that killed it, and a newbie may never play again. AS someone who has worked up to MY level over 8+ years, I understand how it got this way. It is easy to forget how hard it was to buy RE tires or a can of fuel. Giving newbies good gear would only cause a bit of power creep. BUT conversely, think of the simple math skills to actually have a ganger that could race toe to toe with the top? How many game years would it take to get them to that level? How rewarding would it be to have their guys die repeatedly? It is why I have NEVER joined camp wars... there is not a God Damned thing on that map that is worth something to my camp, to deal with the petty PVP antics that happens all around from all sides. It is an unbalanced system in my opinion and had great potential at one time. I am a heavy PVP gamer, some of my most recent ones I am good (Apex/ Fortnite/ Northgard) others (DOTA2/ Rocket League) I get my butt beat. PvP here holds no interest to me at all, in general because of the player base... edit: In alot of other PvP games, top players cannot even compete with new players. ......................... vet wv paintball northernsummer race1 pvp5 pvp4 ww sssc semiprocombat gwped deathrceL1 raceL1 marshal circuit1 gwextrav combatL1 paintladder3,12,2 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 6:00 am Last edited Aug 10, 2021, 6:05 am by *Joskney*

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *Joskney* said: @Longo, I understand WHAT you are trying to say about Fortnite, but it is a bit a flawed arguement.  Everyone jumping out of that bus has the same gear and it falls into skill and play style, every match. Damn, a guy isn’t allowed to be sarcastic sometimes… my main point being my silly request in that game was asking for something that would just benefit me in order to gain on my opponents, a lot Like some of the suggestions people have made here in the past. You guys think that DW is going to bring in a ton of players….. it’s not…. One it’s going on 15 years old. How many games have you played for 15 years or how many MMOs do you still play that are 15 years olds? Two, not everyone is looking for turn based or car wars. Mostly middle aged people who played pen and paper car wars. Smooch was the exception being a you g dude, but his dad did play… ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 8:02 am

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 Bit of a circular argument there Longo. We do get new players (so it's not all 50 year olds), we just don't tend to keep them because progression is vary hard (not play skill, but ganger skill). So the players who have stuck around generally have decent gangers, the players who cannot get that magic 50 skill level and the sense of progression stop playing as it's too much like a job. If you have a player community that is really only 10 strong you really are harkening back to the days when we played wargames in a scout hut. But nothing I have ever said has made a blind bit of difference, so I'll get my coat. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 9:27 am

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 If you really think that it's only 50+ year olds, or even 40+ year olds, that have become new players and enjoyed the game, you'd be very, very mistaken. Turn based strategy games are HUGE. Look at Civ. Homeworld is around the corner. New World. X-Com and its franchise. Mordheim and Necromunda. The Siralim series (Single developer here). The list goes on and on and on. A couple of those are very niche games that some of you probably haven't heard of. ALL of them have a player-base that's astronomically bigger than this. The game can be blamed, to a point. It's dated, the UI is something to be desired, etc etc...it's all been said though. Even with all that, older games can do just fine. Skyrim is pushing 10 yrs old. How old is WoW? Hell, the classic Ultima series, and Ultima Online, still has players and that's WAY before DW's time. If you really don't think Grimm and his antics in the lobby, along with the constant d***-waving from others, on top of the now blatant cheating that is barely punished, with finally the 'You can get good too, just spend a few years playing this like me' attitude isn't pushing away players...I don't know what to tell you. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 9:55 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Dropdeadfred said: If you really think that it's only 50+ year olds, or even 40+ year olds, that have become new players and enjoyed the game, you'd be very, very mistaken. Turn based strategy games are HUGE.  Look at Civ.  Homeworld is around the corner.  New World.  X-Com and its franchise.  Mordheim and Necromunda.  The Siralim series (Single developer here).  The list goes on and on and on.  A couple of those are very niche games that some of you probably haven't heard of.  ALL of them have a player-base that's astronomically bigger than this. The game can be blamed, to a point.  It's dated, the UI is something to be desired, etc etc...it's all been said though.  Even with all that, older games can do just fine.  Skyrim is pushing 10 yrs old.  How old is WoW?  Hell, the classic Ultima series, and Ultima Online, still has players and that's WAY before DW's time. If you really don't think Grimm and his antics in the lobby, along with the constant d***-waving from others, on top of the now blatant cheating that is barely punished, with finally the 'You can get good too, just spend a few years playing this like me' attitude isn't pushing away players...I don't know what to tell you. Dude - I’m a marshal and I have no tolerance for cheating. So I don’t know where you are coming from here. I often get accused of cheating however. When I ask why the person said that, they say you are good you have to cheat. This is the second time you have implied that I am OK with cheating. So I will tell you again, I’m against it. Sam is my witness, and Xman and some other marshals can attest to this. And FWIW, THIS turned based game is predominately Middle Aged men. I know most of them and try and get to know the players in this game and have met numerous ones in person. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:08 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Iron Wraith said: Bit of a circular argument there Longo. We do get new players (so it's not all 50 year olds), we just don't tend to keep them because progression is vary hard (not play skill, but ganger skill). So the players who have stuck around generally have decent gangers, the players who cannot get that magic 50 skill level and the sense of progression stop playing as it's too much like a job. If you have a player community that is really only 10 strong you really are harkening back to the days when we played wargames in a scout hut. But nothing I have ever said has made a blind bit of difference, so I'll get my coat. Bit of a circular argument there Iron, go look at Smooch’s 6 month old gang and come back and talk to me. Actually, I am done. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:10 pm

*Awefense* Kings of Metal Autodueller Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 396 Joined: Sep 20, 2011 If it all comes down to ganger skills, why not just bump up skill gains for everything by a factor of four? New folks can see the progression much faster. Their gangers will be competitive much faster. The gear will follow. This would help everybody out. Maybe some of the 'elite' players would be upset by that, but who cares? This change would not hurt any other factors. The 'elites' would still have their camps and their mountains of gear. I'll be honest, I haven't felt like grinding out a new gang. I've just been dabbling for the past 4 or 5 years. I have always hated the uber slow progression, it's just not fun! Thoughts? ......................... vet wv pvp4 marshal gwextrav Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:17 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 *Awefense* said: If it all comes down to ganger skills, why not just bump up skill gains for everything by a factor of four? New folks can see the progression much faster. Their gangers will be competitive much faster. The gear will follow. This would help everybody out. Maybe some of the 'elite' players would be upset by that, but who cares? This change would not hurt any other factors. The 'elites' would still have their camps and their mountains of gear. I'll be honest, I haven't felt like grinding out a new gang. I've just been dabbling for the past 4 or 5 years. I have always hated the uber slow progression, it's just not fun! Thoughts? Right before your most recent return, Sammdid increase skill gains, if you scout with others. The more gangs in the scout, the more gains ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 1:45 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Games have changed in line with the players changing. This is nothing new but has to be accepted. When BTech was being designed they wanted a battle to be over in a certain time as they were very much aware that long battles are not really in sync with what most gamers want. In fact, BTech was 'dumbed down' quite a bit to ensure greater market appeal. Thank goodness they deliberately made it mod friendly. DW while still alive has had its day, it is still good fun doing PvE (and PvP) either solo or more so with friends but has too much wrong with it to fix - and very little reason to to be fair. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 6:48 pm

Iron Wraith Iron Wraiths Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: Feb 2, 2009 [quote=*Longo*][quote=Iron Wraith]<Snip> [/quote] Bit of a circular argument there Iron, go look at Smooch’s 6 month old gang and come back and talk to me. Actually, I am done. [/quote] So Smooch has made progress in 6 months. I don't know how he did it, he may have sucked up to the Lords of Evan and rode their coat tails on joint scouts, he may have spent every hour of the day playing in the last 6 months, he may be massively talented. It is probably a mix. Smooch is still leaving. There have been thousands of players who have already left without approaching his level of success. Just check out the list of gangs that have existed and have been abandoned. The game is feudal. Not everyone wan't to be a vassal. ......................... vet wv raceL1 deathrceL1 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 9:31 pm

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 *Longo* said: Dropdeadfred said: If you really think that it's only 50+ year olds, or even 40+ year olds, that have become new players and enjoyed the game, you'd be very, very mistaken. Turn based strategy games are HUGE.  Look at Civ.  Homeworld is around the corner.  New World.  X-Com and its franchise.  Mordheim and Necromunda.  The Siralim series (Single developer here).  The list goes on and on and on.  A couple of those are very niche games that some of you probably haven't heard of.  ALL of them have a player-base that's astronomically bigger than this. The game can be blamed, to a point.  It's dated, the UI is something to be desired, etc etc...it's all been said though.  Even with all that, older games can do just fine.  Skyrim is pushing 10 yrs old.  How old is WoW?  Hell, the classic Ultima series, and Ultima Online, still has players and that's WAY before DW's time. If you really don't think Grimm and his antics in the lobby, along with the constant d***-waving from others, on top of the now blatant cheating that is barely punished, with finally the 'You can get good too, just spend a few years playing this like me' attitude isn't pushing away players...I don't know what to tell you. Dude - I’m a marshal and I have no tolerance for cheating. So I don’t know where you are coming from here. I often get accused of cheating however. When I ask why the person said that, they say you are good you have to cheat. This is the second time you have implied that I am OK with cheating. So I will tell you again, I’m against it. Sam is my witness, and Xman and some other marshals can attest to this. And FWIW, THIS turned based game is predominately Middle Aged men. I know most of them and try and get to know the players in this game and have met numerous ones in person. Not sure why you got defensive here, when I didn't mention your name, imply you nor have you on my mind when I typed that up. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 10:42 pm

Dropdeadfred Main Street Sunday Driver Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 59 Joined: Dec 15, 2015 Iron Wraith said: The game is feudal.  Not everyone wan't to be a vassal. Nobody wants to be a vassal in a computer game.  Watching the 'death' of any game that has that idea in mind will show that.  Atlas tried it.  Albion had it, then abandoned it.  Asheron's Call blatantly had it.  I tried to bring this up when Camp Wars was first discussed when they were discussing the role of new players in the system.  Largely ignored, which is what new players, and now vet players, have done with the system in turn. Either way, I agree with you. ......................... vet wv ped1 paintball0,1,0 Posted Aug 10, 2021, 10:48 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Who is holding who as a vassal? LMAO like how is that even possible here, you are free to do whatever the HELL you want in the game including VOLUNTARILY JOINING A PVP EVENT. I cannot bribe someone to race for me, offering to help them get 1st place! (And cars and money and even BLOODY CAMPS!). That's NOT Vassalage! They'd rather DIE refusing to RESIGN to me! What the HELL do you guys talk about in those group scouts? Bring it. I love the hate. Even the delusional, misguided slanderous ridiculous hate, I will drink it all up! Lets have the REAL Darkwind PvP: the FORUM WAR. Favorite of the carebear. Nothing like a whiny ass "waaa taking my ball and going home" post to kick things off! I Guess i'm able to cause consternation and Grief, hardly even playing even. It's too easy to defeat such complete and pathetic wimps! I can literally just about do nothing but log into 3-4 PvP events a week. SAD state of affairs in a FAKE world! Name some names and give the details(talking to the people making cheating and ruining the game claims here). Lets have it out in the open, we are all supposed to guess at the heinous deplorable crimes. Arcane accusations will get you nowhere. I named and gave specific details about the CHEATER I brought to light. Don't be a coward. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Aug 11, 2021, 12:07 am Last edited Aug 11, 2021, 12:08 am by Joel Autobaun

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 It’s ironic that Iron and Fred have had alot of comments lately in the forums. I looked and neither are subbed and neither have played ANY events in the past 30 days. But they have a ton of input on what’s been going on in the game. Let’s listen to them. ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 11, 2021, 12:25 am

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