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TARGETING CHANGES, Important

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 I can top ya. Gates of SS scout with Zoltan. Buzz with a Hgat and CC front at about 20 meters vs a BLASTER. It took 4 rounds to demo him.... I think Zolt shot a desert flame 15 times with a hmg at close range before he demoed him.... My 162 gunner using a CR missed a few times at 50 meters... ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 5:49 am

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 It seems every time there is some nerf to the targetting or accuracy, the NPC's dont get the effect even when they are using 20 skill gunners...... Sure wish my 20 gunners hit like the NPC's do! ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Aug 15, 2008, 5:52 am

Zoltan The Cosmic Kids Autodueller Merchants Faction Group: Members Posts: 421 Joined: Dec 1, 2007 Yeah heehee Longo's right, and i through in a few rockets for good measure. Lol, need alot of reloads to battle now, thats fer sure. ......................... vet wv pvp4 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 6:38 am

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 This looks interesting, I need to go out and test it now. ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted Aug 15, 2008, 7:07 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Just lost a lorry and a decent ganger because I couldnt take out 4 npcs on an escort run. I finished them off after losing the lorry, but literally had 1 bullet left when I was done. Im done until this is adjusted. I guess I should look on the bright side. My fame somehow dropped down to 199, and I can borrow a car now... ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 8:07 am Last edited Aug 15, 2008, 8:11 am by Longo

Alocalypse Advanced Race Labs Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 2,236 Joined: May 6, 2007 Did 2 scouts and didn't notice the change at all, but they never got to more than ~20mph so the changes didn't really kick in. It probably affects lower skilled gunners more, It'll take a lot more testing before I can say anything conclusive about it... Quote: The first was the 'rocket-nerf' Making rockets hit better. The AI certainly had the upper hand in this change until some changes were made by sam to equalize the field against the Maurader scourge. Except for the players who (ab)used rockets exclusively because they were the best weapon in the game at the time (yeah I'm guilty again here). There was also the camp change and the internal collision damage and probably a lot of other major and unexpected changes, but with the exception of radiation and the initial collision damage being way too harsh I think all those changes have worked out nicely despite the initial controversy. Quote: 3) Ammo and space for smaller cars. That's a very good point, I don't know what a good solution would be though. Also another thing that gimps light cars is the NPC targeting bug feature where they don't need to spend a turn aiming so out-manouvering them to avoid damage is almost impossible since a lot of them have weapons on almost every side... ......................... vet deathrce1 raceL1 race1 combat1 northernsummer gateautumn elmsautumn deathrceL1 semiprocombat wv cont Posted Aug 15, 2008, 8:11 am Last edited Aug 15, 2008, 8:12 am by Alocalypse

*JD_Basher* Gearjammers Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Storytellers Posts: 2,728 Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Quote: There was also the camp change and the internal collision damage and probably a lot of other major and unexpected changes, but with the exception of radiation and the initial collision damage being way too harsh I think all those changes have worked out nicely despite the initial controversy. My point was that the nerf was set too high in the first place. Granted, that after a lot of griefing, fixes were made to equalize the earlier 'fixes'. "Small Steps" is what I endorse. ========== Quote: Also another thing that gimps light cars is the NPC targeting bug feature where they don't need to spend a turn aiming so out-manouvering them to avoid damage is almost impossible since a lot of them have weapons on almost every side... WHY do they not need to spend a turn aiming?......I thought EVERYONE had to "Target" THEN shoot? I've noticed this too......I also thought we had this bug squashed....a LONG time ago. ......................... vet marshal wv cont Posted Aug 15, 2008, 8:21 am Last edited Aug 15, 2008, 8:26 am by JD_Basher

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I think the mistake was the change in the way that vehicle size affects accuracy; I'm reverting this to the old method. The angular velocity stuff should be fine. If anyone lost anything they feel unfairly, let me know. Quote: WHY do they not need to spend a turn aiming?......I thought EVERYONE had to "Target" THEN shoot? I've noticed this too......I also thought we had this bug squashed....a LONG time ago. I have explained this before JD. The first time they aim, they do need to wait a turn. But if they use the same gun again with the same gunner, they don't. This is because the AI was turning out to be a nightmare to get working otherwise, and they'd spend all their time re-targeting. This is the *only* difference the NPCs have with gunnery, and as I have stated multiple times before they have no cheats with regard to their 'to-hit' rolls, with RLs or any other weapon. Put this in context: they have the brain capacity of a slug. Is that not an unfair advantage to you? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 9:41 am Last edited Aug 15, 2008, 9:46 am by *sam*

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,009 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 I LOST 20 FIRETRUCKS LOL ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 9:45 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 What's the event ID, darth? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 9:49 am

Valiance The Vanguards Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,176 Joined: Jan 15, 2008 Sam, Not complaining, but just wanted to check. I thought that the AI hack was that if a car has say a MG front and FT right with only one character in the vehicle (say in a deathrace) and you drop from his front arc (where he is hitting with his MG) to his right arc, he doesn't have to take over the FT, retarget for a turn and then fire - he already has a lock on you and fires, even though us humans would need to take an extra turn to fire. I thought that was the hack and had accepted it. If I'm wrong, then I'm getting shot due to bad driving more often than I thought. ......................... vet combat1 wv ped1 northernsummer Posted Aug 15, 2008, 10:02 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 It's almost the same thing Valiance.. basically, if a weapon has a target, then it doesn't need to maintain the same AI gunner to keep that target. This allows the AI shooting code to act in an opportunistic way (which is much simpler) rather than having to maneouver around to keep the same facing towards the same target (which is quite complex). In your example, the only difference is that the first time he fired the FT at you, it *would* take him 1 turn aiming ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 10:19 am Last edited Aug 15, 2008, 10:20 am by *sam*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 OK I'm doing a scout to test the re-tweaks. That's right, me! A scout! The lengths I go to.. LOL ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 11:02 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 All seems pretty good, except RLs were finding it a bit too hard to hit. I'm going to remove the weapon-speed part from the angular velocity component. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 12:20 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,009 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 did a scout with 'krazy' karen juaques 165 gunner 54 lg gunner rapid shot, lv2 sniper and mt using the rl had a vamp in los, his side facing me, hes stopped, im 20 to 30m away and i miss with 2 rocket shots. but when another car came at me from like over 50m i hit him but he was facing me. before she almost always hit 100m or less ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 1:40 pm Last edited Aug 15, 2008, 1:45 pm by *darthspanky*

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 What direction/speed were you moving, relative to them, darth? Straight towards them, or were they passing across your LOS? ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 1:50 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,009 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 i was comming to the top of a hill a little on the downside the vamp was stopped little higher than i was and was in front of me with his rt side facing me i was probly moving under 20 mph ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Aug 15, 2008, 5:50 pm Last edited Aug 15, 2008, 5:52 pm by *darthspanky*

Dr Mathias Wasteland Extravaganza Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Contributors + IP Posts: 1,418 Joined: Oct 9, 2007 I'd suggest the angular targeting issue only come into play at certain speeds, say 50 mph or above. It shouldn't be any harder than it was to hit slow cars, or cars on a direct heading, whatever type and size, than it was before the change. ......................... vet combat1 ped1 wv cont Posted Aug 15, 2008, 5:58 pm

Ivan Kerensky Les Loups Gris Autodueller Civs Faction Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: Mar 1, 2008 Very good thing I am trying Ram cars thoses times.... ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 15, 2008, 6:04 pm

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I saw "vehicle size" as a to hit factor, and I guess my questions is: What determines "vehicle size"? Is it the size of the model or the capacity of the vehicle? Or is it an arbitrary attribute that is assigned to each chassis by the development team? Now that this code has been introduced, maybe the to-hit penalties for side mounted weapons should be removed? ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 15, 2008, 6:44 pm

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