Darkwind - Viewing Topic: Training form boost problem

Lord Foul
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Sam, can you please confirm that the training form boost is working correctly for my gang.

I was willing to let last week slide as a fluke, bad luck or the training boost had not kicked in yet. Unfortunately another training week has passed and I've had zero results from the gunnery training form boost that is supposed to be in effect for my gang.

I currently have 29 characters in SS training in gunnery and I've seen no change in training form in any of those characters over the past 2 weeks. If they went up 1 point a month ago, they went up 1 point last week and 1 point this week. If they went up 5 points a month ago, they went up 5 points last week and 5 this week. The characters range from new to vets and there are plenty with gunnery as their primary skill. I find it hard to believe all my characters training in gunnery are not able to improve their training form with the boost.

When I had the Driving boost 6 months ago I noticed immediate results in training each week.

Thanks for checking.

......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126
Posted May 8, 2009, 7:02 am

*sam*
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I can't check easily as these boosts get rolled up into random calculations. However, what I'll do is add a specific line to the training script so it logs boosts that are being taken into account.

Let me know if you're still suspicious after Friday and I'll check the log.

......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013
Posted May 11, 2009, 12:21 pm	Last edited May 11, 2009, 12:21 pm by sam

lordbam
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I noticed slow gaining too...
Chars going up 1 points or even none in a week of training in the training center.
This is with a LVL3 motivator in town that levels 4-5 points a week.
I have a feeling the motivator only motivates himself.

......................... vet wv zom0,3,0
Posted May 11, 2009, 12:30 pm

*sam*
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I have added motivator logging too, lordbam.

Quote:

I have a feeling the motivator only motivates himself.

That's definitely not the case.

The trouble with this stuff is it's being viewed through the lens of huge random factors and the delay mechanism built into the 'training form' and 'delta training form' calcs.. it's like trying to guess how high a hill is based on how rapidly the slope is changing.

......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013
Posted May 11, 2009, 12:33 pm	Last edited May 11, 2009, 12:33 pm by sam

Lord Foul
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Still no change Sam, if there's a Form boost being given I'm not seeing it this time around on any of my guys. More evidence in my favor is that 27 of the 29 characters training in gunnery have not done any travels/scouts in 4 weeks, so I know they have been in town for the past 3 weeks training at all times and some are on Neo as well. Yet no visible change in training form from a month ago.

One theory I have is that last time when I had the driver training boost I did not have my level 3 Motivator in town and the boost worked perfectly. This time around I do have the level 3 in town and I wonder if the higher level motivator is overriding the training form boost?

In any case, let me know if you see anything.

Thanks

......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126
Posted May 15, 2009, 7:52 am

lordbam
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My SS gangers gained an average of 1.3 this week.
This is with 30 hours of traveling, and a lvl3 motivator.

My BL gangers gained an average of 0.7.
This is however without a motivator.

This has been going on for a couple of weeks now.
From what i remember they used to level faster.

......................... vet wv zom0,3,0
Posted May 15, 2009, 8:25 am

Lord Foul
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Week 4 has passed with no visible change with the addition of the training form boost.

I have guys in Badlands gaining more points in gunnery each Firday morning from weekly training than I do in SS.

Example.

A guy in Badlands went up 3 points in gunnery this morning and he scouted all last week and has no motivator, training center, neo drugs or training form boost.

I have guys in SS that have stayed in town for 5 weeks with not scouts or travels that get 4 training bonuses;

Level 3 motivator
Training Center
Neo Drugs
Training form boost

and gain 3 points.

I beginning to wonder if the system is actually doing all the training checks.

......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126
Posted May 22, 2009, 7:12 am

*sam*
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LF - here's what today's training log says about your gang (ID 6655):

Gang 6655 - training form in town 1 boosted by level 3 motivator
character 78777: training form boosted by sponsor
character 80233: training form boosted by sponsor
character 88237: training form boosted by sponsor
character 88265: training form boosted by sponsor
character 89372: training form boosted by sponsor
character 89765: training form boosted by sponsor
character 89766: training form boosted by sponsor
character 91608: training form boosted by sponsor
character 91934: training form boosted by sponsor
character 93090: training form boosted by sponsor
character 94901: training form boosted by sponsor
character 94934: training form boosted by sponsor
character 94939: training form boosted by sponsor
character 102218: training form boosted by sponsor
character 103170: training form boosted by sponsor
character 149440: training form boosted by sponsor
character 163862: training form boosted by sponsor
character 179210: training form boosted by sponsor
character 188890: training form boosted by sponsor
character 200251: training form boosted by sponsor
character 112011: training form boosted by sponsor
character 236773: training form boosted by sponsor
character 239795: training form boosted by sponsor
character 215825: training form boosted by sponsor
character 221579: training form boosted by sponsor
character 226705: training form boosted by sponsor
character 228604: training form boosted by sponsor
character 68138: training form boosted by sponsor
character 90257: training form boosted by sponsor
character 234500: training form boosted by sponsor
character 219658: training form boosted by sponsor
character 239787: training form boosted by sponsor
character 239806: training form boosted by sponsor
character 239816: training form boosted by sponsor
character 239825: training form boosted by sponsor
character 243061: training form boosted by sponsor

and here's the relevant bits of PHP code, which do the procesing:

Code:

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$newTrainingForm = $trainingForm + $deltaTrainingForm;
$deltaTrainingForm += (rand(-30,30)/100.0);
if (isset($sponsorSkill[$trainingSkill])) {
$newTrainingForm += 0.15;
$deltaTrainingForm += 0.15;
logDTxt("character {$pkc}: training form boosted by sponsor");
}
if ($currentMotivatorLevel>0) {
logDTxt("Gang {$row['FK_Gang']} - training form in town {$row['FK_Location']}
boosted by level {$currentMotivatorLevel} motivator");
}
$newTrainingForm += ($currentMotivatorLevel/20);

if ($newTrainingForm>2)
$newTrainingForm=2;
else if ($newTrainingForm<0.4)
$newTrainingForm=0.4;

if ($deltaTrainingForm>1)
$deltaTrainingForm=1;
else if ($deltaTrainingForm<-1)
$deltaTrainingForm=-1;

It's all very simple, and the extra information in the training logs, as listed above, shows that the relevant boosts are indeed being applied. The fact remains that this is a big random factor:
$deltaTrainingForm += (rand(-30,30)/100.0);

and that characters will often get stuck in a rut (i.e. with $deltaTrainingForm negative and $newTrainingForm at 0.4) or on a high (i.e. with $deltaTrainingForm positive and $newTrainingForm at 2.0)

motivators and sponsors affect the overall trend ina fairly subtle way which would take a fairly large sample size and sample period to actually discern clearly.

......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013
Posted May 22, 2009, 12:24 pm	Last edited May 22, 2009, 12:35 pm by sam

Joel Autobaun
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Well holy .... that ends that debate pretty much lol

I gotta say Sam is the bestest Dev ever for that kind of feedback. Bookmarking this post - still pretty rare to give us that kind of number crunching.

I think I might have the Combat League locked up (yeah prolly cursed myself there), I have already changed almost everyone to training heavy guns in anticipation of next weeks glorious large guns sponsorship. I have several guys in *good* training form right now. Some already training lrg guns and some who were just killin at training other stuff. So I should be able to give some fairly accurate feedback next friday. We'll see if my experience is similar to Lord Foul. I probably will have to wait a few weeks to see a trend, so I will keep training them large guns over time(was my plan anyway). Incidentally I have one person only training with first aid(I have that sponsor) and her training FORM, has noticably improved over the last several weeks(game months).

Edit: Don't see anything about the town bonus(SS-driving/cycling Sars-Mech) in there Sam...is that added in later that you didn't show us? (if so, that's cool don't show us). I could see why that would have nothing to do with training FORM, which is good.

......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31
Posted May 22, 2009, 7:13 pm	Last edited May 22, 2009, 7:33 pm by Joel Autobaun

Lord Foul
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Thanks for the effort Sam, guess most of my gang is in a Rut or just sucks at gunnery training.

Dashed are my dreams of gangers going up more than 5 points in gunnery per week like it was with Driving.

......................... vet race1 deathrce1 wv zom circuit1 pvp1 northernsummer community circuit3 paintball55,206,126
Posted May 22, 2009, 10:40 pm

Joel Autobaun
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They will come around man, it's training FORM. it will take a few weeks and the benefits last even past your sponsorship. It's actually a huge deal in my opinion.

......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31
Posted May 23, 2009, 1:29 am