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Advance Warning of Rule Tweaks

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 *sam* said: Forget it, I won't change anything then. Could we have numbers to figure out what would these changes really means? ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 12:23 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Guys - When sam says things like - *sam* said: Forget it, I won't change anything then. - I have to think that it's in response to terms like "game breaker" and "I'll have to find another hobby." Ask yourself, is the only reason you're here because the lockup fees are as low as they are? If these had been the fees all along then you wouldn't be playing today, right? I understand there's a fine line to tread... You have your hard earned money you're spending on the game and you have your valuable time that gets spent either here or somewhere else. The game has to earn that. I understand and respect that. I also understand and respect Sam and his vision for the game. Do I personally like every change? No. Part of me thinks that peds don't even belong in the game because to *ME* it's "car wars 6.0" so let's stick to cars. Do I ask for them to be removed or say it's a "game breaker" if they stay? No. I adapt and continue playing my new favorite game. I personally think PvP should be around in all forms in all places, but that's not happening. Do I quit because of it? No. The game doesn't allow it so I don't fret it. I remember people saying months ago when Perma-Damage was implemented that it would be the death of the game, etc. It wasn't and it isn't. Increased lockup fees in other parts of the game won't be the death of it either. Some may have to make huge choices, but that's part of the game too. Putting on my RC member hat, I want to tell the people that think this is a vet nerf that in no way, shape or form was ANY of this designed, modified or otherwise discussed as a vet bashing tool or nerf to the vets or whatever you want to call it. This was considered and discussed as a natural part of the game that's been overlooked for a long time because our developer has been spending his time on other things FOR US to enjoy in the game. It is not now nor has it ever been the RC's intention to create "game breakers." We have never gone about to "change the game for the worse" or "make it hard on the vets." We know that some changes will affect vets MORE but we also recognize that vets are the ones that can afford a change more. When the newbie gets to where he can travel anywhere in Even with semi-confidence, he'll be at that status and have to make some decisions too. Please, I know there will be whingers (there always are in ANY community), but try to take a deep breath and choose your words carefully. Jimmy ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 1:17 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 *jimmylogan* said: Guys...  [snip] ...Jimmy I was too lazy and unqualified to type something like this up, thanks Jimmy and I agree with all you said. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 1:27 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 Anybody want to buy an apachee or four ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 25, 2009, 1:54 pm

Group: Posts: 0 Joined: Today Posted Today, 3:01 pm

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Thanks Jimmy for putting things so well. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 2:48 pm

BWGunner DriveByRomance Autodueller Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 413 Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Perhaps, as I suggested, someone from the Rules Council would like to explain, point by point, what the intent of these changes is so we don't all freak out some more. I concur that many are wise, but some seem to be targeting key demographics, whether they were intended to or not. What was the intent? ......................... vet wv cont Posted Aug 25, 2009, 2:53 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 BWGunner said: Perhaps, as I suggested, someone from the Rules Council would like to explain, point by point, what the intent of these changes is so we don't all freak out some more. These were the culmination of discussions that had been going on for a long time. Latte, Goat, Nojj - others were involved in the discussion and voting on an ongoing basis. I'm not sure that we can satisfy everyone without rehashing everything and/or just copy/paste some of the discussion. The main thing is that it was proposed a long time ago and has since gone through several iterations before finally being settled on what Sam posted. This was done in accordance with the normal workings/agreements/disagreements of the RC and was very above board. I'm not sure how specific you want before you don't "freak out" (not just you, BW, that's an editorial 'you'). I guess we have to ask for faith in Sam and the RC. JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 3:54 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 Has increasing the lockup/CR capacity of camps been discussed? If the purpose is to add realism in that a town can't hold 1000 cars then this would be a good mitigating change. If the purpose is just to take things away from players, then this would defeat the purpose. (Incidentally, if there was some freaking transparency in the rules council there wouldn't be so much bitching right now. Who would have thought that 5 people in secret making decisions for the whole game could cause such a stir? Hmmm. But I digress.) As it is, no one seems to know WHY this change is being made. "It's been discussed for a long time". "The numbers date back to the beginning of the game". "The plan has been iterated on many times". None of this answers the basic question: How does this make Darkwind a better game? What is the actual goal? ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:19 pm Last edited Aug 25, 2009, 4:20 pm by Jety

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 If / When this is implemented i hope we will get a week or hopefully two to address the overload in garages, will a server date be posted in this section and a confirmation this is going live ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:21 pm

*Ayjona* Edgerunners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 515 Joined: Dec 6, 2006 As a vet, I'm all for these changes. Sam and RC, brilliant job! Darkwind might be very hardcore, but in spite of that, many players have bizarre amounts of vehicles (peek a sneak at this, for an example of a gang that has grown so big that, while the player in question certainly has deserved all of those vehicles, there is little more to achieve) . "Gangs" is no longer appropriate. "Fleets" are more like it Changes such as these could offer new challenges for vets, and give us all even greater heights to strive towards. However (and this is my only "however"), if the small (and dangerous) towns will be so very expensive to keep equipment and vehicles in, those towns might need to offer greater incentive for players. It is no secret most of us still scout in SS, because the gains sissy pirates yield outweight the pros of running the more dangerous areas. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:21 pm Last edited Aug 25, 2009, 4:25 pm by *Ayjona*

*Ninesticks* The Wombles Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 3,371 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 I think we have covered the increase in training rate already. What follows is my take on things only. The increase in garage costs and wages are designed to address issues with the economy (rampant inflation from an unending supply of loot cars). Whilst there are those who wish to be collectors, at least in canon/RP terms there is a strong argument against allowing massive garages (or allowing it but making it very expensive) - protected real estate would be expensive. It also makes a rather good money-sink that helps with the rampant inflation. Rampant inflation only widens the gap between established players and new players. Established players have the crew and equipment to make plenty of money, new players don't. This in turn affects the player market prices which puts certain items beyond the realistic reach of both casual players and newer players within a reasonable timeframe (as the new player makes 100k, the established player makes 500k - prices keep rising etc). This has a negative affect on retention of players - which is bad for us all. These changes are not, in my mind, aimed at a key demographic, but a game wide issue. There are certain demographics that will have to make harder choices but not intentionally. As has already been mentioned, you don't actually need a massive garage of cars to scout from anywhere. As an aside this is a lesson I am having to learn as well regarding being a 'collector'. My apologies if I have rambled on a bit. ......................... vet wv marshal pvp4 community pvp20,1,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:32 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 Could we consider an option for players not able to pay the required amount of money needed after the changes are in integrated ? I mean vehicles and /or equipment in a given area lacking the money for the extra care would be subject to permanent damages due to acid rain, etc on a random basis. Some vehicles could even be stolen. This would be a opportunity for broke people not to lose eveything at once and add some RP flavour. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:37 pm

Twisted Feather Battle Royale Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: Aug 26, 2008 viKKing said: Could we consider an option for players not able to pay the required amount of money needed after the changes are in integrated ? Agree this needs to be 'smoothed' in somehow - possibly giving users a preview of what their weekly costs will be be prior to it going live. I can see the point of these changes thanks to the various explanations, and I hope I can keep my recently formed outposts 'down south' going (although can see I'll need to run more kit that I want to keep back to SS under the new system). The main thing I'm worried about when it goes live is the immediate hit for a couple of weeks. At the moment I know how much my weekly costs are and how much I need to keep in the bank on a Thursday evening. If these changes go live and my bank account is wiped, resulting in my best gangers taking a hike then it *will* be difficult to keep playing... (just my 2c) ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:53 pm

BWGunner DriveByRomance Autodueller Renegade Group: Storytellers + IP Posts: 413 Joined: Mar 22, 2008 Great answer, Nine. I just want incentive to get OUT of Somerset. The last change actually pushed me back into Newbie town just to pay the bills. This one looks to have similar impact...but perhaps I'm naive. But at least I understand the intent. If the massive garages that will be impacted are all ok with this change...well...let's see what happens. We trust you guys, you know, we just want...as was suggested...some transparency. ......................... vet wv cont Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:58 pm

wounded Blackwater CarPark Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 159 Joined: May 9, 2009 *sam* said: This is advance warning that the changes below are going to be implemented soon. In the case of #3, I will have your Lockups page show future cost for a period of 1 week, so you know exactly how you will be impacted and have time to react before the changes are made permanent. Sam has already adressed this in his initial post. ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 5:02 pm

*Marc5iver* 5ive Crew Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,354 Joined: Oct 10, 2008 On a slight tangent, my $.02 would be to allow us to breakdown items in town, not just at camps. I am getting more involved with camps, to add some spice to the game for me, but can't/won't be able to keep loot cars in town until able to transfer them to camp to breakdown and donate various components. I would rather pay higher garage fees for components that I have broken down then for damaged cars waiting for me to have the nerve to run them to camp. Now back to your regularly scheduled program... ......................... vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 6:25 pm

Twisted Feather Battle Royale Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: Aug 26, 2008 wounded said: *sam* said: This is advance warning that the changes below are going to be implemented soon. In the case of #3, I will have your Lockups page show future cost for a period of 1 week, so you know exactly how you will be impacted and have time to react before the changes are made permanent. Sam has already adressed this in his initial post. I really should learn to read more carefully Thanks for the clarification! ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 8:08 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 BWGunner said: I just want incentive to get OUT of Somerset. Good point. One solution would be to really remove specialisms learning from Somerset. You would yet be able to train basic skills there, but would need to move Southern to learn and increased them. They also needs to be evenly spread around the whole world, so each town has something special to propose. I know there is still a town missing... you can blame me. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 25, 2009, 8:13 pm

Groove Champion The Groove Champions Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 4,813 Joined: Sep 16, 2008 I am adamantly favorable to the increase in garage fees. For those worried about nobody being interested in buying their over-stock think again: this is a golden opportunity for intermediate players to get their hands on vehicles they've only dreamed of up to now. I'll gladly pay 9K a week for a Firetruck in BL because I don't have an armada of unused vehicles to park around it. As a counter-point to what has been written here: the game is broken, this is a game fixer. ......................... vet combatL1 wv cont0,5,0 Posted Aug 25, 2009, 8:14 pm

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