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Garage Fees and Lockup Fees

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 1) Four scouts per week just to break even is a pretty serious time commitment for a casual player. 2) I think everyone will agree that driving players back into Somerset is seriously counterproductive. ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 8:15 pm

*Ayjona* Edgerunners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 515 Joined: Dec 6, 2006 Jety said: 1) Four scouts per week just to break even is a pretty serious time commitment for a casual player. Very few casual players move their vehicles to BL and GW. I'd say the veterans and the hardcore crowd will be the ones affected by this, not casual players, as they, to a very large extent, remain in SS. Jety said: 2) I think everyone will agree that driving players back into Somerset is seriously counterproductive. Yep, agreed. The need for increased incentive to scout the more dangerous towns existed already before. The gains of battling sissy pirates already outweigh the pros of taking on the big'uns in the badlands region. With increased costs in BL and GW, we need even more incentive to scout those areas. That said, I am not at all opposed to the new costs. Quite on the contrary. I think it is a great idea. But it needs to be accompanied by increased opportunity for monetary gain in certain regions, to partially balance the new costs. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 8:31 pm

metrocube 12th Street Bangers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Members Posts: 790 Joined: May 2, 2009 Wow. $2000 per car in Badlands. $2500 per car in Shantytown (why not free for such a lawless place?) $3000 per car in Firelight. $8000 for my Firelight bus that I don't have an engine for and can't drive out. vs. $150 per car in SS. $100 per car in Elmsfield. Yeah, I can see the writing on THAT wall. ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 8:40 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 8:47 pm by metrocube

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Still thinking about it guys.. don't worry, I'm not going to roll this in if its of a form that is damaging to the game. One idea I'm considering is making a smooth increase in garage fees across all towns rather than loading the increase into the truckstops. So overall we get the same sort of moneysink but without the undesirable effects on the truckstops. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 8:57 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 9:03 pm by *sam*

wounded Blackwater CarPark Racer Renegade Group: Members Posts: 159 Joined: May 9, 2009 Sam: I was not complaining about the situation. It was merely an observation as I thought that your intention was to shift the balance towards the bigger towns, which in RP terms would make sense. Though the numbers, when counted in terms of "how much do i need to scout to maintain my current garage" puts things in nice perspective. It sure might be painful for people with huge garages now, but it might be a sensible thing in the long run gameplay wise. Or then it might just tick people off as you can't play DW-pokemon anymore (gotta catch 'em all!) It is a very tricky question indeed and I certainly don't envy you for the task ahead  ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:05 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 And what about an entry tax for every town/truckstop instead of a high parking fee. The price would vary, based on number of vehicles already present in the place, without limiting them in real numbers, while a storage cost would still be applied, but lower than currently proposed. For example, we could say Badlands TS can only host 50 (players) vehicles at once, so once this number as been reached the tax raises. My point is that if we raise storage prices in towns, people will move out into truckstops that are supposed to be smaller in size. This won't feel right. So I would like to propose an increase in storage fees, based on the number of vehicles present for a player in a given location and an entry tax for every incoming vehicle in a town or truckstop. Yes, it means, an entry tax for scouts as well. I really mean each time a vehicle is crossing those damn gates. The storage fee should be a 10% increase per vehicle present. For example, a fee of $100 would be $110 for the second vehicle and so on, unless it leads to higher numbers than currently. I don't think storage fee and entry tax should be fixed as well they should be variable, depending on number of players vehicles present and location size. ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:17 pm

Speed_Melon Produce_Vendors Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Members Posts: 558 Joined: Dec 18, 2007 This does seem to hinder the experienced player who has a large stable but does not/can't scout much. Last week the wife and kids were out of town, I was able to net a 100k and participate in group scouts. This week I'm in the hole 88k because I haven't been able to scout as much and paid for repairs from the group scout. ("A" Armor Rampache was fun, but expensive to repair. I realize game mechanic wise why people are saying no one should have that much stuff, but it is a game, and accumulating neat stuff that one can use on a moments notice is part of the fun. Also having money to buy stuff enables me to be a little more cavalier about my equipment. ......................... vet wv0,3,0 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:32 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *Grograt* said: maybe you can make 50k in one scout if its a BL solo goat, i certainly cant and you honestly scout more than the average player wouldn't you say. yep... but unlike the 'average' player i dont charge 120k for a V8 .... if i did all i would have to do in BL is loot.... ONE ... YES PEOPLE ONE...black stone a week and i would have covered the costs of my gang... thats with teh best part of 60 cars in the garage and 62 gangers the lot of you stop complaining.. most of you have stupid bank balances and yet you seem to think this is gonna bankrupt you? where do you think you got those bank balances???? by making ludicrous profits.. this is at worst a measure that will force you to think before clicking buy on everything in the shop ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:35 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 goat starer said: the lot of you stop complaining.. most of you have stupid bank balances and yet you seem to think this is gonna bankrupt you? where do you think you got those bank balances???? by making ludicrous profits.. this is at worst a measure that will force you to think before clicking buy on everything in the shop Even if it is true - and it must be - you can"t say it that way, but have to find a solution to sink this money unnoticed.  ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:43 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 9:44 pm by viKKing

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 viKKing said: Even if it is true - and it must be - you can"t say it that way, but have to find a solution to sink this money unnoticed.  dont understand Vik... the money sink that was just invented makes perfect RP sense.... it sinks cash... why cant i say it that way?? because it might offend a bunch of whingers and reactionaries like my good friend Grograt  ? If so you are quite wrong and i CAN say it that way and will say it that way next time I speak to him.  and Metro... WHY DO YOU HAVE A BUS IN FIRELIGHT WITH NO ENGINE?????? more to the point WHY DO YOU WANT TO KEEP IT?????? ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:49 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 9:51 pm by goat starer

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 no goat im not whining, this will cause me to not be able to have vehicles in the truckstops, i simply do not make enough money to keep anything there. i sold everything else. i wasn't rich before hand but this is going to hit me, this proposed figure for the fee at present i find to steep just my opinion ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:53 pm

Speed_Melon Produce_Vendors Darkwind Guru Merchants Faction Group: Members Posts: 558 Joined: Dec 18, 2007 Not all of us have made money through ludicrous profits. I've got a good bank balance that I've managed well and conservatively. There are a lot more people who have bigger bank balances who have managed their money well and taken larger risks. I enjoy the game a lot more when I have cushion as opposed to grinding my way through just to meet weekly expenses. I get enough of that in RL. I like the Tax idea vik, ......................... vet wv0,3,0 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 9:54 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *Grograt* said: no goat im not whining, this will cause me to not be able to have vehicles in the truckstops, i simply do not make enough money to keep anything there. i sold everything else. i wasn't rich before hand but this is going to hit me, this proposed figure for the fee at present i find to steep just my opinion gro.. as far as i can tell you scout mostly with me out of BL.... you bring 2 buzzers and sometimes an ammo buccy. so what else do you need there??? that would cost you 10k ish to keep and you make that by bringing home a symphony in reasonable condition. move the vanity cars out of the truckstops and play the game the way your gang would.. if its not needed for survival bin it. if you were scouting with 20 buzzers out of BL i might think you had a point (although the loot potential from those scouts would be so much more). ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 10:02 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 I have six buzzers in BL thats it , should this change really have to make a player have virtually nothing vehicle or weapon wise to achieve, i am sorry but your argument here is very anti a playstyle 90% of the game has i would imagine, i want to own at least a few things. i own 5 rares, proper rares , ive been here nearly a year, i dont own a camp, i dont own a mortar, i dont own a H/Laser i dont ..... etc, so if i dont own any of those at this point, what chance have i to strive and own those in the future, if i simply cant afford too. ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 27, 2009, 10:08 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 Collecting things is fun. Period. This is the central dogma of roleplaying games. Take that away and you might as well play arcade games. Gathering strong gangers, strong cars, and lots of cash is FUN. It's what most gamers find rewarding about playing games. This sort of change is punishing what 90% of people regard to be the reason they play. I think it's misguided. There seems to be about 10% of the player base that thinks that having nothing is fun. I get it. But it's wrong to force the other 90% to play along. As for town size. Why the hell is BL a truckstop other than that's what it's been named? Over the course of the game years it has developed a large population and grown into a town in it's own right. Why not just acknowledge it's no longer a truckstop and call it Badlands Town? ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 11:02 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 11:02 pm by Jety

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 Jety's point about BL is really salient - a place like BL would be the natural seat of empire in Evan. They are the choke point between technology (the south) and necessities (the north). Any empire builder worth his salt would quickly park his army in BL or GW and start taking a cut of everything that moved this way or that. But I suspect we're going to get into a hair splitting argument about genre conventions. One of the problems with having a post apocalyptic "society" is that at a certain point, it is going to be a little more post and a little less apocalyptic. The persistent world and accumulative nature of RPGs makes this evolution somewhat unavoidable. That is, unavoidable except by natural, arbitrary "disasters" - which appeal to some people, but not to most, I'd venture. But I still like the lockup/garage fee change. I'm not sure it isn't just a new challenge to be overcome/worked with, as opposed to a reward-system disrupting kludge for a supposed economic simulation. I'm willing to give it some time (although my lockup fees are only 110k a week now that I've shed a large number of chassis.) ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 27, 2009, 11:24 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 11:25 pm by simonmaxhill

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 well fine.... but frankly i dont get it and if you all want to play a game that enables you to create little safe empires then I dont think its the game for me. I guess people play games for a lot of reasons.... my reason is for a challenge... darkwind pretty much ceased to be challenging a long time ago. My people never die. I can replace anything i lose easily. People here are suprised when they lose stuff and its just anathema to my understanding of why I play games and the RP setting of this one. Essentially what Jety says above emphasises the problem for me... this game has been turned into a collection... top trumps with battlecars... rather than a genuinely challenging environment. For many people that fulfils a basic need to control and posess that is hard to find in RL but it doesnt fulfil the other reason for playing games... which is for the thrill. I have a lot of subscription left so i guess i will be aroudn for a while and it will be interesting to see how the game does develop. If it were up to me I would say implement the changes and let everyone who doesnt like em leave... but then it isnt up to me is it. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 11:31 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 11:31 pm by goat starer

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 27, 2009, 11:40 pm

lordbam Nephilim Rising Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,410 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 I noticed collecting rares is the BIG argument to not have this increase in "taxes". Heavy lasers, mortars and rare chassis cars won't increase the anual price much. About the I'm getting taxed to much: 1 buzzer in BL will cost you: 4K a week. So if you want 6 that will cost ya 24K a week. The only reason i can see to have 6 buzzers in one town is you use 2 buzzers a squad and want to have buzzers repaired while you scout with others. I use that same trick. but if you scout like that, 24K should EASILY be covered. STOP COMPLAINING and just trim your garage. A garage with 50K worth of cars can easily cover my weekly needs to scout and give me enough choice. Sell of the fat (see my garage post) and just keep what you need/want. This change would force you to sell stuff faster instead of hoarding 50 HGG's and 20 V8 engines. ......................... vet wv zom0,3,0 Posted Aug 27, 2009, 11:41 pm

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 Thats your opinion and my views are mine, call it complaining if you wish, you have had the collect everything own everything phase, some of us havnt. discussion if against your view isnt always complaining, do i flame you for liking the idea no Great how this subject has me arguing with people i dont normally, maybe you should consider that after two years or more you have done everything some of us are trying to achieve still, when we get to the oint you are at, we may have the same views you have now, but we havnt reached that point as yet. Im sorry goat but your ' Its my way or the highway ' statement isnt exactly fair. I myself havnt stated that i dont like the idea, i am just stating the idea in its present form i do not like, as it effects the game for me just as you wish the changes remain as posted because the game at present is not what you want . but why cant a happy medium be reached by discussion, rather than a statement such as' this or nothing' ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 27, 2009, 11:43 pm Last edited Aug 27, 2009, 11:58 pm by *Grograt*

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