4saken Posted May 5, 2010, 11:32 pm	What if in PvP you could still gain skill points when you are capped? I think this would be a strong incentive. You can only get so far beating up the AI. However the way a "balanced" fight is computed might need to be changed. (I suggested simply having a wider CR gap and letting people more or less decide on their own.) Also the skill gain in a squad challenge should be much less. In fact it really shouldn't be any (or should be limited to a certain number of points per week to prevent abuse) but currently it's so difficult to do PvP otherwise. Sure, lots of people would be using uber-characters in an attempt to raise them, but in general they wont want to risk them in common cars, so they will also have rare kit, which, of course, can be dream-loot for most people.
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted May 5, 2010, 11:37 pm	4saken said: What if in PvP you could still gain skill points when you are capped? Very much like this.
Groove Champion Posted May 6, 2010, 12:06 am	Definitely something for the RC to consider... Strong incentive indeed!
Joel Autobaun Posted May 6, 2010, 12:22 am	No. Abusable.
*Longo* Posted May 6, 2010, 1:59 am	Joel Autobaun said: No. Abusable. Agreed.
4saken Posted May 6, 2010, 7:01 am	In what way? If the CR balancing works as it does now it would make for unbalanced games. Other than that how do you mean?
FireFly Posted May 6, 2010, 7:18 am	Because with ease, you can just setup fake matches, for training.
Flaming savage Posted May 6, 2010, 8:08 am	What if it was only useable in Shantyville?
Karz Master Posted May 6, 2010, 8:33 am	I like this idea.
Serephe Posted May 6, 2010, 9:29 am	Just have it so that if a character is killed, the characters on the opposite side gain 1/100th of his skills. Good luck to people trying to exploit THAT.
JS Posted May 6, 2010, 9:29 am	FireFly said: Because with ease, you can just setup fake matches, for training. How is this different from regular PvP?  Do you not get skills for regular PvP?
Serephe Posted May 6, 2010, 9:30 am	JS said: FireFly said: Because with ease, you can just setup fake matches, for training. How is this different from regular PvP?  Do you not get skills for regular PvP? Not beyond skill cap, no.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted May 6, 2010, 9:43 am	PVP whats that ?
Serephe Posted May 6, 2010, 10:09 am	Something fun and intense, that doesn't require massive amounts of time by the programmer to present a challenge to the player.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted May 6, 2010, 11:07 am	This ?
Serephe Posted May 6, 2010, 11:08 am	Exactly.
*goat starer* Posted May 6, 2010, 2:59 pm	yes... thats it! latte was playing Xs and Ser was on Os but i think this is an excellent idea IF there was some safeguard in place.... how about this one for thoughts.... you only get potential above cap skill gains for gunnery skills... and then only for shots that breach the enemy or cause blue text. bit harder to stage a PVP match (but still not impossible).
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted May 6, 2010, 3:27 pm	The enemy should be of a certain calibre to deter set up exploits, i know not how this could be ascertained though.
*goat starer* Posted May 6, 2010, 4:41 pm	the thing i really like about this one is that itr would encourage people to use characters who were at least pretty good in PVP events.
Joel Autobaun Posted May 6, 2010, 7:20 pm	I already noticed some squad challenges with Paint rifles that were obviously exploiting the PvP training bonus..in this case hand guns. I didn't care because frankly it's still a time investment. Skill caps though that's a whole 'nother can of worms. i've got a lot of low cappers that need killin, I find another vet that's got the same and we convert these pleebs to ELITE SKILLZZZ YO! I would honestly do that, and double up with a camp war so I can get some camp fame kicked in with it. It's a rich get richer scheme if there ever was one, I know that's not what 4saken intended but that's the use. If it was a serious PvP I probably would be just as reluctant to put my seriously high cappers in PvP. Frankly if the majority wants this - I'm COMPLETELY for it. I already use my (100-150)capped characters for PvP. I will heartily benefit from this.
Jake Nikodemus Posted May 7, 2010, 4:59 pm	Joel really brings up some good points here. It might even get me to PvP as my cappers currently are useless cannonfodder.... At least they might have 'some' future....
Serephe Posted May 7, 2010, 6:50 pm	Even a sub-70 cap surpasses the best AI gunner in the game, as the AI cannot choose specializations. Calling them cannonfodder is quite wrong, unless you play like me.
4saken Posted May 7, 2010, 7:31 pm	FireFly said: Because with ease, you can just setup fake matches, for training. You must have missed this part: Quote: Also the skill gain in a squad challenge should be much less. In fact it really shouldn't be any (or should be limited to a certain number of points per week to prevent abuse) So, for example, maybe you're limited to only one point a week from a squad challenge. At that rate it would take you a year of grinding to gain one spec for one character. Not to mention I'm pretty sure setting up fake matches, either in squad challenge or otherwise, would count as exploiting and is against the rules. And, of course, all events are recorded. It's not like you can just do stuff like that and get away with it. Especially not for a whole year.
Serephe Posted May 7, 2010, 7:35 pm	I agree that there shouldn't be any skill-gain in squad challenge. But then, I'm of the mind that skill gains in PvP should be the same as non-PvP. I'd much rather have one or two other people who PvP because they enjoy the challenge of fighting another person, than 10-15 people who just want increased skill gain and whinge when I attack them.
4saken Posted May 7, 2010, 7:49 pm	The general intent of my idea is that people would end up with PvP "hit squads" consisting of mostly capped gangers. These could be used to harass shipping, look for cool player loot, etc. Or simply extract bribes. But for once people would actually have some incentive to monitor the gates. And bear in mind their targets could only be other players who are both outside of SS and have their PvP flag on, so it's not exactly like this would be any kind of issue for newbies. This system actually gives you something to do with your capped gangers and incentive for actual PvP as opposed to kiddie glove squad challenges. Also to reiterate my position on squad challenges the main reason you should get any points at all is that currently you can really only even get a PvP with one. There is just too small a population outside of SS to currently attack at random. Ooh, new idea: No skill gain for squad challenges in SS. If you wanna do it, drag your ass out into PvP land where you would normally have to keep your squad anyway. Quote: I'd much rather have one or two other people who PvP because they enjoy the challenge of fighting another person... While that's true I'd like to see some PvP other than 1) kid glove fights or 2) bored millionaires that don't really care about their crew or equipment. Even though rationally I know I can't get PvPed in SS I still do a little nailbiting when my event takes longer than usual to launch. To me that little "what if" thrill is part of the fun of the game. Sadly many people here weren't around in those days.
Serephe Posted May 7, 2010, 7:58 pm	Quote: Also to reiterate my position on squad challenges the main reason you should get any points at all is that currently you can really only even get a PvP with one. There is just too small a population outside of SS to currently attack at random. Not exactly true. Quote: While that's true I'd like to see some PvP other than 1) kid glove fights or 2) bored millionaires that don't really care about their crew or equipment. Even though rationally I know I can't get PvPed in SS I still do a little nailbiting when my event takes longer than usual to launch. To me that little "what if" thrill is part of the fun of the game. Sadly many people here weren't around in those days. Who says I was bored when I started? I just got tired of attacking people who would whinge about getting attacked when they were running around with their flag on. I'd love to see PvP brought back into constantly open for those nailbiters, but it'd just mean even MORE whinging from people about PvP. People whinging about it is what's pushing me to quit.
Studman Posted May 8, 2010, 12:46 am	Enable PvP everywhere including SS if the flag is up, Make the bonus larger IN pvp fights, make pvp scouting easier to catch people. Allow attacking return encounters. Scale the likelyhood of it working with the CR of the squad. If someone is returning from a big scout with 5 busted up tanks then yea a pvp fight isn't going to be much fun, but if it is a muscle car with no weapons running mail......then a pvp scout on the return has the same variables as that on the exit but allows for the interception chances to go up.
Parapsycho Posted May 8, 2010, 2:03 pm	Agree!
4saken Posted May 8, 2010, 2:53 pm	Part of the problem with the game in general is that SS is a newb town but there is not much incentive to leave. Thus people end up staying and doing fights that are designed to be challenging to newbs. So they are used to doing easy fights against the AI and winning almost all the time. This (plus permadeath + the very long time it takes to build characters) makes people very reluctant to take any form of risk, and PvP is potentially very risky. Assuming it is fair, your chance of winning is about 50% and not the 95% you are accustomed to. All for very little incentive. And this doesn't even take into account the social ramifications of what happens if you fight another player. Also anyone with their PvP flag on that constantly refuses PvP is rule exploiting, IMO.