*goat starer* Posted Nov 27, 2010, 8:47 pm	i just wated for 3 and a half hours with a squad out in bl watching immune squads go in and out... finally a pvp open one goes out and my squad does not connect... IF YOU ARE OPEN IT SHOULD CONNECT how hard is this
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Nov 28, 2010, 12:32 am
*Bastille* Posted Dec 1, 2010, 8:49 am	They both got swords, whats the problem!?
Djihani Posted Dec 1, 2010, 9:57 am	As long as youre monitoring you should be attackable too. Just sayin.
*goat starer* Posted Dec 1, 2010, 5:48 pm	Djihani said: As long as youre monitoring you should be attackable too. Just sayin. what? monitoring is watching... from inside the town. my squads are out hunting and anyone who wants to attack them can. Indeed i would be delighted if they did!
Groove Champion Posted Dec 1, 2010, 8:10 pm	Djihani said: As long as youre monitoring you should be attackable too. Just sayin. I agree with this. If someone goes on a crazy spree and declares war on the entire community (it's happened before...) being able to attack a monitoring player would be a great way to strike at these players preemptively. Otherwise there is literally no chance of exacting revenge on an aggressive player.
Zoltan Posted Dec 2, 2010, 5:03 am	I agree I was open and hunted people for a long time until i got bored, with the non connecting, even with auto balancing, and a full range of CR vehicles in the squad to increase my odds, i rarely got a hit.
*goat starer* Posted Dec 2, 2010, 9:13 am	Groove Champion said: Djihani said: As long as youre monitoring you should be attackable too. Just sayin. I agree with this. If someone goes on a crazy spree and declares war on the entire community (it's happened before...) being able to attack a monitoring player would be a great way to strike at these players preemptively. Otherwise there is literally no chance of exacting revenge on an aggressive player. what squad would you be attacking exactly? you dont monitor with a squad... you set a squad after you see someone go out.
*Dark Tempest* Posted Dec 2, 2010, 4:02 pm	Solution: In order to monitor, you have to set a squad.
kometen Posted Dec 3, 2010, 7:21 am	Hmm, interesting. This may actually work.
*goat starer* Posted Dec 3, 2010, 6:10 pm	kometen said: Hmm, interesting. This may actually work. im sorry.. i dont get this at all... if im in the town monitoring who comes and goes why should i be vulnerable to attack? the actual solution - as has been pointed out many times - is to make pvp encounters in teh wild be subject to potential returns so you can still head out and get revenge.
Groove Champion Posted Dec 3, 2010, 6:30 pm	goat starer said: kometen said: Hmm, interesting. This may actually work. im sorry.. i dont get this at all... if im in the town monitoring who comes and goes why should i be vulnerable to attack? the actual solution - as has been pointed out many times - is to make pvp encounters in teh wild be subject to potential returns so you can still head out and get revenge. I don't agree! The intital attackers would then be at a huge disadvantage with their combat-damaged vehicles. If you're looking for a PvP fight, why would it be a problem to be attacked while monitoring? I see monitoring as circling the town on the outside, waiting for prey to leave the gates.
*Dark Tempest* Posted Dec 3, 2010, 7:08 pm	I think that if you were monitoring with a squad, you should still be able to change them the way you can now, to match the squad your trying to hit. The only reason you have to put a squad out of the gates is so that if someone in the town wants to hit the guy watching, they can see what squad he has out, match it, and then roll on it, in which case the guy monitoring is the guy who's being attacked, and then he can't change his squad.
Duke Dangerfield Posted Dec 23, 2010, 5:27 pm	maybe instead of the monitor being attackable (because I agree with goat, how would he get attacked inside town? that doesn't make sense. he's peeking out a tavern window or something.) the monitor should have some chance of being detectable? based on scout skill somehow? seems like a plausible compromise between the two sides here.
theHumungous Posted Dec 23, 2010, 6:05 pm	I find it amusing that the guy WANTING to PVP is essentially immune to PVP until he decides who HE wants to hit. If you want to go out and attack other players, you should also be vulnerable to OTHER PLAYERS. Monitoring town gates should be done from outside the gates as you jump people as they leave or arrive. This would allow players to counter each other. Imagine the scenario: I'm going to send a lorry from BL to GW. Lets say the last time I did this while doing some missions, another player (who's squad was OUTSIDE monitoring) saw me leave the gate and attempted to intercept. Lets say for that example, the other player killed my escorts and stole the lorry. The next time I'm about to send a loot-filled lorry, I decide to send out a "cleaner" squad to monitor the gates and make sure no one is trying to jump me. So, I send the squad on a "monitor gates" mission - and here the scouting values of both sides are compared. Either: a) I see the other player monitoring the gates and can attack him, b) He sees MY squad and can attack them (if he chooses) c) Neither of us spot the other So, if I am able to attack him, neither of us are "monitoring the gates" anymore - and the lorry squad is now free to make the trip - unless someone ELSE is monitoring... If I am unable to jump HIM and he chooses NOT to jump my cleaner squad and he waits for some other target, he would have the opportunity to jump the lorry squad, since I've failed to "pull him out of monitoring". This turns the PVP and gate monitoring into a new level of conflict. Also, the chances of non-PVP encounters with these "monitor" squads should be very low (that way they can be used for the intended purposes of PVP). If you bring a squad back in from monitoring without hitting someone, they should then be subject to the normal arrival encounters. Both PVP and NPC. Though, players should be immune to PVP attacks if they have already faced the NPCs - at least until the system itself can be worked out. This whole thing adjusts itself nicely to those that WANT to PVP will have their flag on, and the chances will be much higher that it will occur. Those that don't want it, will have it OFF and only be hittable through Shantyville. The PVP flag issue itself can be addressed some other time.
*Tinker* Posted Dec 23, 2010, 7:59 pm	Groove Champion said: Djihani said: As long as youre monitoring you should be attackable too. Just sayin. I agree with this. If someone goes on a crazy spree and declares war on the entire community (it's happened before...) being able to attack a monitoring player would be a great way to strike at these players preemptively. Otherwise there is literally no chance of exacting revenge on an aggressive player. I got little experience in this but doesn't a PvP attack consist of entering the target squad's id in your squad page and clicking "do it!"? What this means to me is that you are actively patrolling the gates. If so you should be attackable from a third party. Am I missing something here?
Serephe Posted Dec 24, 2010, 1:58 am	That's how it was working when I was actively pvping.
FireFly Posted Dec 24, 2010, 5:58 am	You don't have to set a squad to PvP to monitor gates, nor spy on enemy gangs. You set a squad to intercept after your targeted squad has left town, thus, the kind of preemptive system you are talking about would not work. Furthermore, forcing the "Hunter" to set a squad in advance is rather impractical, as the hunter almost always have to adjust his squad to match the enemy CR before he can launch the interception. Nothing has really changed from when you did it sere, aside from the fact that "Interceptions" actually work properly now
*goat starer* Posted Dec 24, 2010, 11:24 am	*Tinker* said: Groove Champion said: Djihani said: As long as youre monitoring you should be attackable too. Just sayin. I agree with this. If someone goes on a crazy spree and declares war on the entire community (it's happened before...) being able to attack a monitoring player would be a great way to strike at these players preemptively. Otherwise there is literally no chance of exacting revenge on an aggressive player. I got little experience in this but doesn't a PvP attack consist of entering the target squad's id in your squad page and clicking "do it!"? What this means to me is that you are actively patrolling the gates. If so you should be attackable from a third party. Am I missing something here? this is entirley wrong as far as I can see.. you are not 'patrolling the gates' or you would be able to hit returns. YOu are IN the town watching for someone tgo leave then sending an appropriate squad after them. there is a PVP method that is you patrolling.. you send a squad out hunting player squads randomly. Its time consuming and exposes you to attack. It also allows any player attacking you to work out exactly what to send against you .. a crappy exploit that only a complete coward would use. But one which has been used to great effect by complete cowards in the past.
Serephe Posted Dec 24, 2010, 11:40 am	FireFly said: You don't have to set a squad to PvP to monitor gates, nor spy on enemy gangs. You set a squad to intercept after your targeted squad has left town, thus, the kind of preemptive system you are talking about would not work. Furthermore, forcing the "Hunter" to set a squad in advance is rather impractical, as the hunter almost always have to adjust his squad to match the enemy CR before he can launch the interception. Nothing has really changed from when you did it sere, aside from the fact that "Interceptions" actually work properly now  When the "hunter" sends his squad out though he opens himself up to counter-interception. Several times I was able to attack people who were trying to attack others. Sometimes I caught then, sometimes not. But anybody who is PvP open is vulnerable to being hit, even if they hide in town and attack people only.
FireFly Posted Dec 24, 2010, 1:27 pm	Serephe said: FireFly said: You don't have to set a squad to PvP to monitor gates, nor spy on enemy gangs. You set a squad to intercept after your targeted squad has left town, thus, the kind of preemptive system you are talking about would not work. Furthermore, forcing the "Hunter" to set a squad in advance is rather impractical, as the hunter almost always have to adjust his squad to match the enemy CR before he can launch the interception. Nothing has really changed from when you did it sere, aside from the fact that "Interceptions" actually work properly now  When the "hunter" sends his squad out though he opens himself up to counter-interception. Several times I was able to attack people who were trying to attack others. Sometimes I caught then, sometimes not. But anybody who is PvP open is vulnerable to being hit, even if they hide in town and attack people only. Of course others can attack him after he sends out his squad, that's not what I meant.
*Dark Tempest* Posted Dec 24, 2010, 5:48 pm	I think the proposed system works something like this Firefly. The squad that the "Hunter" would have set to be roaming outside would not have to be the one that he intercepts someone else with, it's just the squad that he would have outside, attack-able by anyone that feels like attacking it. When he sees something that he wants to attack he sets up a second squad in town and sends them out to engage his target.
FireFly Posted Dec 24, 2010, 6:14 pm	That's a bit odd, I'm going to second goat on this one, if the gangers are inside the town watching for enemies, when they find someone they all mount up and give chase. You can still intercept his interceptor squad once it leaves the gate, but the proposed system is a bit unpractical.
Jose Bagg Posted Jan 9, 2011, 3:04 am	I am so freaking confused. I wonder if their is a tutorial or at least a thread that describes the current PVP process. I wouldn't mind trying it once. Correct me if I am wrong. Only travel squads can be hunted from monitoring gates, or can scouters be hit too? But for sure, you are only able to PVP people as they leave, not as they enter a town.?
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Jan 9, 2011, 11:35 am	Scouts and travels can be hit. Scouts can only be hit as they are leaving. CR must be balanced. There is a chance that you will miss them even if you have targeted them.
*Bastille* Posted Jan 9, 2011, 12:50 pm	with travelling squads, do traders count to CR?
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Jan 9, 2011, 12:57 pm	I'd guess so as I don't think the game can distinguish between a player combat car and a player trader car.
Iron Wraith Posted Jan 9, 2011, 2:04 pm	Surely the following scenario makes sense. "Jolly lotsa bucks send his regular lorry to fort remote. He gets his escort squared away and then rolls out the gate. He's set his PvP flag on. "Evil McNasty the highjacker has been monitoring Jolly and as the convoy leaves he waves his gang into action and they hare off into to big open in order to catch Jolly and scrag him. By doing so his PvP flag is automatcially set on. "Dudly do right has been monitoring Evil McNasty and as he rolls out, he sends his own squad after him." If McNasty can find Jolly, he can encounter him and PvP. If Jolly has a good scout he can spot McNasty coming and take clever short cuts and loose him. This is basically a competition between scouts. If Dudley has a decent scout he might find McNasty before McNasty finds Jolly. (again a contest of scouts). If his scout isn't as good it could be after or not at all. I suppose you could have it so that all three arrive together, in which case all hell would break loose. Noe sure how the game would implement this though. This way Jolly could set one of his own squads as tailguard who only leaves if someone hares off in persuit (plus the player have to have a fair inkling that McNasty was up to no good otherwise he'd just be attacking a traveller) You have the option to follow any squad and you can therefore protect yourself, or vulture up the aftermath. Is that possible with the current system, if so, I don't see anyhting needs fixing (other than Goat's original concern that finding PvP travellers is too hard.