FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 7:26 pm	http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition So huh, never saw that one commin, did anyone here play this? I mean, I have to ask when something says "Future tank warfare" on the box  Appearently they said they'd take another look at car wars after that one is trough.
Groove Champion Posted Apr 27, 2012, 7:28 pm	Steve Jackson can kindly go **** himself.
Sarge Posted Apr 27, 2012, 7:42 pm	Never played Ogre, but as a fan of SJG in general I'm glad it's going well. It'd be nice to see what they could do with Car Wars
FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:10 pm	If they do car wars, we should all donate 1$, then spam the comments page about Dark-Wind
*sam* Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:15 pm	Heh. I'm seriously considering doing a kickstarter for a singleplayer Darkwind, by the way I'll post some content in here for you guys to comment on/suggest stuff for before going live with anything. I'll probably also be looking for some testimonials for the page.
Joel Autobaun Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:16 pm	Ogre was actually a pretty lame game.
*sam* Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:17 pm	Joel Autobaun said: Ogre was actually a pretty lame game. People are ravenous for retro nostalgia right now though..
Joel Autobaun Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:26 pm	*sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: Ogre was actually a pretty lame game. People are ravenous for retro nostalgia right now though.. I'd like to see tonnes of other one's first.  Captain Goodnight...A real Bard's Tale...Ultima...sundog the frozen legacy(holy crap was that good)...master of magic... etc etc. Ogre was a kinda ok two player board game ported to PC.  Ogre could always win every time if you knew how.
Juris Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:41 pm	Clever marketing, let's see if SJG still suffers from ADD. GEV was a lot of fun, but I am just not a fan of needing an entire room to play a boardgame.
Joel Autobaun Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:42 pm	Juris said: Clever marketing, let's see if SJG still suffers from ADD.  GEV was a lot of fun, but I am just not a fan of needing an entire room to play a boardgame. That reminds me - need to check on status of the World in Flames Computer game... thanks!
FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:52 pm	Juris said: Clever marketing, let's see if SJG still suffers from ADD.  GEV was a lot of fun, but I am just not a fan of needing an entire room to play a boardgame. But some of us are insane and absolutely love having a poor sap "Volunteer" a room for game night
FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 8:54 pm	Oh, and Joel, ever play Hearts of Iron? You might like it.
Joel Autobaun Posted Apr 27, 2012, 9:04 pm	RTS disgusts me. Only can tolerate Total war series(because strategy is turn based and tactics is realtime as it should be) and the Original very first realtime game(you couldn't even pause) Battletech : the Crescent Hawks Revenge.
FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 9:11 pm	Dude!? THIS is hearts of iron... It's not RTS, It's a pausable real time "Grand Strategy" game www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvimsD6xjKg You might as well call the series "WWII - The Simulator"
FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 9:20 pm	www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMEgRBCqQh0 Ok, I was wrong, he fiddles around for 30 minutes... www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJFulZmtgEM There, the poles be blitzed
*Ninesticks* Posted Apr 27, 2012, 9:52 pm	Sam said: People are ravenous for retro nostalgia right now though.. True, I still think there is quite an opportunity for a VSF genre game out there, and yes I still get somewhat misty eyed about Sky Galleons of Mars.
FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 10:03 pm	*Ninesticks* said: Sky Galleons of Mars.  And I get a headache from that title alone, what's it supposed to mean!? Old spanish ships... in the sky... on mars!? This is either incredibly stupid or incredibly awesome, I cannot decide
*sam* Posted Apr 27, 2012, 10:30 pm	it's a thin line firefly..
FireFly Posted Apr 27, 2012, 11:33 pm	Well sam, if one is willing to buy... "In the post apocalyptic future, everyone will dress like cheap metalheads and strap guns to cars"
Groovelle Posted Apr 28, 2012, 12:59 am	Groove, what's wrong with Steve Jackson? It sounds like he peed in your koolaid.
Necrotech Posted Apr 28, 2012, 1:17 am	Ogre = Easy Artillery strikes on the treads... game over
Fifth Posted Apr 28, 2012, 3:40 am	*sam* said: Heh. I'm seriously considering doing a kickstarter for a singleplayer Darkwind, by the way  I'll post some content in here for you guys to comment on/suggest stuff for before going live with anything. I'll probably also be looking for some testimonials for the page. YES YES YES YES.
*Bastille* Posted Apr 28, 2012, 3:46 am	most interesting
Groove Champion Posted Apr 28, 2012, 6:27 am	Groovelle said: Groove, what's wrong with Steve Jackson?  It sounds like he peed in your koolaid. He's been promising an Ogre remake for years (decades?) but has done nothing but keep his fans waiting. He's actively hunted down all internet material that allowed players to enjoy Ogre while he wasn't bringing it back. And now he wants to cash in. He's legally within his rights. That's the closest I can get to giving Jackson a compliment.
*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Apr 28, 2012, 7:59 am	Whats wrong with SJ? Hmmm... As the person who submitted a concept project for Car Wars Tanks, and getting told "military Armored Vehicles have no place in the CW Universe" in the rejection letter... Only to see it released 18 months later, poorly done, and written by that accursed fan-boy who at the time was known as "that guy who sells chainmail and dice bags at weekly garage sales" in the town my University was located... Yeah... i wont get started on SJG from an ethical stance. Loved CW and Ogre, though Ogre was one of their experiments with the "Asymetric Wargame" concept. There was another game with the same concept... something about zombies or something. I would SEROIUSLY fear SJG deciding to work on a CW computer product. Unless Sam has some very strong leagal CYA (Cover Your Arse) documentation somewhere, SJG would shut DW down once they had a competing product. Or buy it. I for one wouldn't like to see it sold. Love to see Sam get rich off it, but wow, DW would go downhill in a hurry then. I just dont trust that bunch. Not that they seem to be able to finish what they start anyway.
*sam* Posted Apr 28, 2012, 8:25 am	I honestly don't think DW infringes CW in any way. It's turn-based car combat where you build your vehicles from components; that's where the similarity ends. I actually discussed it briefly with SJ himself back in about 2006 and, though he did seem like an awkward guy to work with, he made no hint of any annoyance over infringement.
*Bastille* Posted Apr 28, 2012, 8:31 am	... wait to see how it goes first
JS Posted Apr 28, 2012, 8:31 am	*sam* said: I honestly don't think DW infringes CW in any way. It's turn-based car combat where you build your vehicles from components; that's where the similarity ends. I actually discussed it briefly with SJ himself back in about 2006 and, though he did seem like an awkward guy to work with, he made no hint of any annoyance over infringement. Sam It's my experience in these matters that a persons give a sh.. is directly proportional to the money involved.
Stingray191 Posted Apr 28, 2012, 9:18 am	I enjoyed Ogre/GEV a lot when I was younger. (me 12 years old, brother 14) A massive amount. Over and over again. Then about 4 years ago, my Brother and I pulled it out of the cupboard. My greater understanding of probability and unit utility has totally sucked the fun out of most of the game. Still like the idea of one side having only one counter - 1 BIG counter CW: Tanks was an abortion.
*sam* Posted Apr 28, 2012, 9:46 am	JS said: *sam* said: I honestly don't think DW infringes CW in any way. It's turn-based car combat where you build your vehicles from components; that's where the similarity ends. I actually discussed it briefly with SJ himself back in about 2006 and, though he did seem like an awkward guy to work with, he made no hint of any annoyance over infringement. Sam It's my experience in these matters that a persons give a sh.. is directly proportional to the money involved. That's true, JS. But my assertion remains true: there's very little similarity apart from the broad theme. If you read the CW rules book, you'll see it's 60% to do with vehicle movement and combat rules, 20% to do with building vehicles, and 20% backstory and other stuff. DW copies *none* of these.
Juris Posted Apr 28, 2012, 8:40 pm	I think SJG would need to infringe DW to make CW work today - a modern game cannot take 6 hours to do one combat. Time for Sam to protect his IP Edit: CW died from neglect, poor quality control, and just general ADD.
*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Apr 28, 2012, 9:56 pm	My CW tanks was a good little system, just not suited to CW due to armor penetration dynamics rules. It was better suited for a military RPG or turn based game. So I dont fault SJG for their rejection. Still miffed about idea theft even after... 25 years? But thats where I think DW would suffer a possible attack avenue is "intelectual property" (lol... Mental). I know here in the states people sue over that all the time (and lose). But those suits are more about creating expense for the competition than winning. I dont think SJG would produce a decent CW game for the PC. They'd prob be best served by licencing DW then advertising and marketing it to the mass market (and giving Sam a dev team and money to make it sparkle!)
*Bastille* Posted Apr 29, 2012, 12:10 am	Chaos League and Blood Bowl come to mind. Blood bowl ended up quite like, well blood bowl,... but chaos league was a better game in many ways. Blood Bowl didn't have the bug practice game for a start. They really stuffed up with the menu screens. The leagues were just silly, the gameplay was very BB though, and that was/is very cool. I just think this game is great, and would play any single player version too I think. Be great to zoom right back into your car and see the internal workings, peer through gun slits. And then zoom back out to the big picture. Quote: But thats where I think DW would suffer a possible attack avenue is "intelectual property" (lol... Mental). I know here in the states people sue over that all the time (and lose). But those suits are more about creating expense for the competition than winning. I do think that is stuff to be concerned about, but then with my attitude, nothing would ever get done besides lots of being concerned.  We do all say this game is like playing CW though. I think if they wanted, it could be linked, but I think it could also stand the test too. Its about as linked as NWN and Elder Scrolls
*DoubleTap* Posted May 4, 2012, 9:26 pm	SJG will probably end up selling the Car Wars name to EA, who will then turn it into a first person shooter. Like they do everything else *cough* Syndicate cough*.
*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted May 4, 2012, 10:19 pm	Ironic coincidence. The old Car Wars computer game I had on my C64 was published by Origin Systems. After they went out of biz EA bought their name. Now they use it for game distribution via download similar to Steam and whatever Game Stop renamed theirs to. So I can see them doing another "Autoduel".
Karz Master Posted May 4, 2012, 11:39 pm	*DoubleTap* said: SJG will probably end up selling the Car Wars name to EA, who will then turn it into a first person shooter. Like they do everything else *cough* Syndicate cough*. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! EA's ethics have improved recently though. Thanks to them, Brian Fargo got the green light to work on Wasteland 2. It's Activision that's still being an asshole to this day.
Necrotech Posted May 5, 2012, 6:02 am	You are kidding about the EA ethics...right ? Mass Effect 3.. Turning a perfectly good franchise into a steaming pile of dog crap. Including the introduction of day 1 DLC that was already in the DVD files, The intial intent on SELLING the ending of Mass effect 3 as DLC, etc... Oh Wait.. let not forget Dragon Age II.... trust me I can continue at a very judicious rate here.. on EA ethics and especially quality aspect to boot. Karz Master said: *DoubleTap* said: SJG will probably end up selling the Car Wars name to EA, who will then turn it into a first person shooter. Like they do everything else *cough* Syndicate cough*. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! EA's ethics have improved recently though. Thanks to them, Brian Fargo got the green light to work on Wasteland 2. It's Activision that's still being an asshole to this day.
Karz Master Posted May 5, 2012, 9:19 am	I only said they improved, which in my case means to a slight degree, not completely change direction.
Sarge Posted May 5, 2012, 12:05 pm	EA are slightly better over the last few years in a few different ways - more new IP slightly less annoying about DRM etc etc. Sure they failed to keep Mass Effect players happy, but they seem to be trying to do something about it, which tbh, the old EA would have simply brushed aside. They are still a huge and unpopular company, but it is hard to say they haven't at least tried in the last few years to come across as less corporate about everything. They have a long road to go though, before you could say they were 'good'
d0dger Posted May 5, 2012, 5:59 pm	Sarge said: Sure they failed to keep Mass Effect players happy You forgot Dragon Age...
*jimmylogan* Posted May 9, 2012, 2:14 am	I know there's been some dissension in this thread, but I just saw on a blog post this morning about this (not being an Ogre fan I dismissed the thread) and the Car Wars T-Shirt and promise, etc. So I kicked in for $23... There's only a couple of days left, if you're interested.
FireFly Posted May 9, 2012, 8:51 am	So jimmy, I heard you made him work on car wars? I was actually interested in this game, but then, of course, like bloody always they'll never ship to europe, bleh...
*jimmylogan* Posted May 9, 2012, 1:05 pm	FireFly said: So jimmy, I heard you made him work on car wars?  Yeah - that's the plan anyway...
FireFly Posted May 9, 2012, 2:53 pm	*jimmylogan* said: FireFly said: So jimmy, I heard you made him work on car wars?  Yeah - that's the plan anyway... Not like they'll ever bother to ship overseas...
Sarge Posted May 14, 2012, 10:37 am	I chucked in $30 for the International Car Wars T-shirt thingyNot really too fussed about the tee, and not fussed about Ogre either, but wanted to put my marker down on the Make Steve Do Cars Wars pile. But there *was* an International version at least... which might come to Europe... maybe.
Juris Posted May 22, 2012, 5:02 pm	Apparently SJG got enough to commit to re-releasing CW: $700,000 - GOAL ACHIEVED! - Drive Offensively! We will launch a Kickstarter project for Car Wars! We *think* this will turn out to be a refinement of Car Wars Compendium 2.5, but you'll tell us. Our supporters at the [new] $23 level and higher will be invited to join an exclusive Car Wars forum, where we’ll build the new edition from the ground up - issues like "which classic cover do we use?," "10 phase, 5 phase, or 3 phase movement?," and "do we include boats?" Once the project launches, surveys will be open to the public, but only supporters of the current project will get in on the preliminary planning. And we'll take everything we have learned from our Ogre Kickstarter project to make the Car Wars project even better. If we make this goal, the private Car Wars forum and surveys will launch before the end of 2012. The game will be published in late 2013.     (PS #1 - And we will add staff as necessary to make sure that the Car Wars and Ogre projects don’t compete for attention!)     (PS #2 - To make sure this is clear: Supporters of Ogre are not receiving a copy of the new Car Wars. You’re just making us DO it. Thank you . . . we think!)