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Boxvan Escort

Zephyr River City Gamblers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 551 Joined: Dec 12, 2009 I have acquired and fixed up a Boxvan and want to start running courier missions with it between SS and Elms.  I wanted to get a feeling as to just what level of escort I need to bring along.  This is what I currently have specced out as my convoy:  One Boxvan, ReRamx2 in front, Roll Cage fitted, 2x CGL rear.  Crew:  Driver + 2 gunners.  One scout buggy.  Crew:  My best scout (currently 65). One Tanker pickup, with a size-120 fuel tank.  Crew:  One driver. One Apache with 2x HMG rear.  Crew:  1x driver, 2x gunners. Lots of reloads.  What do you think?  Is that one Apache an adequate level of protection for the convoy, or should I throw in a second or third?  Or will that just increase the CR to the point where I get too many enemies...  ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 25, 2010, 10:07 pm

Joel Autobaun Joels Bastards Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Sinbinned Posts: 4,598 Joined: Nov 10, 2008 Big no on the buggy. not for travels (where you might want to run occasionally or often.) 4L Pheo will do a better job even if there might be like 5% more ambushes. Box van is interesting. Frankly rams are rare on travels...rare enough to not warrant 2 rams. You want at least a small gun on front rather than a 2nd ram. Or nothing on front - you should have rear pointed at enemies anyway. Get a FOJ or HFOJ for the boxer, even a couple squirts makes the npcs drive all over the place and get screwed up. Tanker pickup - cool. I used to use them - put HR on front to help bust through a head on(they will happen). Apache is good too - HR on front for same reason as above. ......................... vet northernsummer deathrce1 raceL1 deathrceL1 ww ped1 sssc paintball semiprocombat ped2 e2g gwextrav gwped combat1 paintladder elmsautumn gateautumn wv race1 combatL1 pvp1 pvp5 pvp4 zom pvp3 circuit1 pvp2 circuit2 circuit3 ss2fl67 slay2013 storm2013 geek triangle198,96,31 Posted Jan 25, 2010, 10:18 pm Last edited Jan 25, 2010, 10:19 pm by Joel Autobaun

ZomBPir8Ninja Zombified Piratey Ninjas Racer Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: Oct 1, 2009 Opinions will vary, but my two cents... While Ram x2 sounds devastating, your opportunities to actually use that will be very, very slim. Rarely will you actually try to fight out any encounters, and trying to aim a heavy box van at a nimble muscle car is challenging. They also add 1000lbs each to your van, which will slow you down. In Darkwind, Speed = life. If you feel like you must have an escort (vets do the van/lorry solo, I'm not that brave either), I'd take a muscle car to act as bait. Let it get the attention of pirates and take off in a different direction than your van, giving it time to escape. ......................... vet wv pvp5 pvp4 ped2 gwped paintladder Posted Jan 25, 2010, 10:19 pm

*Lugal* Luna Sea Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 2,246 Joined: Jan 27, 2008 The tanker pickup is your biggest (unnecessary) CR sink with that set up. Perhaps putting a large tank in the boxvan, larger than average tank in the apache, etc, instead? That will also make it much easier (and faster) to play out encounters. Put the biggest engine you can in the buggy (1.2L?), with the rest of the space fuel or mini-cargo. I wouldn't even bother arming it. The twin HMG apache will be a good deterant to chasers. The boxvan's CGLs can work with the apache behind it, but also consider dropped weapons, or a dropped and direct fire weapon (just in case). I'd recommend switching one of the reinrams for a direct fire weapon. It will save a lot of weight and improve your options if you have a bad spawn. Another alternative is to put a 5L (or 5Lv8 if you can find one!) in the boxvan, and have it go unescorted. Combine defensive / deterrant weapons (smoke, paint, flaming oil, etc) with some direct fire guns, and just run like made from everything. Rare NPC builds and player pirates could still give you trouble though. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Jan 25, 2010, 10:30 pm

*Marc5iver* 5ive Crew Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,354 Joined: Oct 10, 2008 With my Lorrys I use two apaches with rear HMG and CR. No weapons at all on lorry as it just runs. Apaches hang back and run interference until lorry can get away. ......................... vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jan 25, 2010, 10:32 pm

Nekojin Cats Laughing Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Contributors Posts: 1,039 Joined: Jan 19, 2008 Marc5iver said: With my Lorrys I use two apaches with rear HMG and CR. No weapons at all on lorry as it just runs. Apaches hang back and run interference until lorry can get away. Are those disposable Apaches, or do you actually have them win or escape? Edit: One more suggestion: I've found that accurately-aimed explosive weapons (RLs, CCs, whatever) can really kill a chasing car's momentum. ......................... vet deathrceL1 wv cont Posted Jan 25, 2010, 10:36 pm Last edited Jan 25, 2010, 10:38 pm by Nekojin

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 i ran a box van for ages... 5l engine (exposed :-)) ... mine dropper and spike dropper.... A armour only escort was a moray ... mine dropper... A armour 3.2v8 just run away dropping stuff and keep running away dropping stuff then run away some more and drop some more stuff ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jan 25, 2010, 11:17 pm

Zephyr River City Gamblers Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 551 Joined: Dec 12, 2009 Thanks to everyone for their feedback.  I'm going to attempt to consolidate feedback and further questions into this post. Joel Autobaun said: Big no on the buggy.  not for travels (where you might want to run occasionally or often.)  4L Pheo will do a better job even if there might be like 5% more ambushes. I guess my question is, what are the odds of an ambush on the SS <--> Elms run at scout skill 65?  And does putting the scout in a buggy significantly help?  5% difference doesn't seem like much.  I've been pretty successful having a buggy along on travels so far; did a couple of Taxi missions with the tanker + buggy config.  The one time it all went pear-shaped, the PU tanker and the buggy both got away clean by escaping into the hills, and it was an Apache that died instead.  But maybe I've been lucky. I figure, if I have a Boxvan (or, someday, a Lorry), I won't be able to run from encounters anyways, so might as well try to minimize them entirely.  Joel Autobaun said: Box van is interesting.  Frankly rams are rare on travels...rare enough to not warrant 2 rams.  You want at least  a small gun on front rather than a 2nd ram.  Or nothing on front - you should have rear pointed at enemies anyway.. Yeah, the rams on the Boxvan are really only there in case of a close-in ambush.  I could go with 1 ram and 1 HMG in front.  Or perhaps 1 ram + 1 RL, maybe to flip enemy Chompers. Joel Autobaun said: Get a FOJ or HFOJ for the boxer, even a couple squirts makes the npcs drive all over the place and get screwed up.. It seems to me that dropped weapons only work well on a few maps.  On dune maps, or on maps where the road is so squiggly the pirates never follow it, they're of limited usefulness.  Not to mention that Flaming Jets are way out of my budget currently.  Joel Autobaun said: Tanker pickup - cool.  I used to use them - put HR on front to help bust through a head on(they will happen).. I could stick something in the front... think I have about 25 extra room.  I don't normally use HRs because the ammo is so expensive, but I suppose it makes a good "Oh #$%^" weapon. Joel Autobaun said: Apache is good too - HR on front for same reason as above. OK, I could run them the reverse of how I run them for scouts. ZomBPir8Ninja said: If you feel like you must have an escort (vets do the van/lorry solo, I'm not that brave either), I'd take a muscle car to act as bait. Van/lorry solo?  Yeah, I'm not that brave.  Maybe someday.  The MC escort idea is interesting.  My initial thought was, the van/lorry is big and slow, so no point escorting it with something fast.  But as a lure?  That makes sense.  But if even one of the pirates doesn't take the lure, the cargo vehicle could be hosed.  Or is the idea that the boxvan/lorry can deal with any un-lured pirates?  Lugal said: The tanker pickup is your biggest (unnecessary) CR sink with that set up. Perhaps putting a large tank in the boxvan, larger than average tank in the apache, etc, instead? That will also make it much easier (and faster) to play out encounters. Does fuel tank size add to a vehicle's CR?  Because I'm running the tanker weaponless to keep my CR down.  I figured space in the boxvan and apaches is better used for weapons and ammo reloads.  How big of a tank do you need in apaches, boxvans, and lorrys to make it from SS to Elms?  Lugal said: Put the biggest engine you can in the buggy (1.2L?), with the rest of the space fuel or mini-cargo. I wouldn't even bother arming it. I run my buggies in scouts and travels, both with just a little bit of A armor, a 1.2 L engine, and one HR in the rear as a "just-in-case" weapon.  Could you possibly fit a big enough fuel tank for a buggy for it to carry all its own fuel from SS to Elms?  Not that I would run it solo, of course; just wondering if I could do without the tanker PU.  Lugal said: Another alternative is to put a 5L (or 5Lv8 if you can find one!) in the boxvan, and have it go unescorted. Combine defensive / deterrant weapons (smoke, paint, flaming oil, etc) with some direct fire guns, and just run like made from everything. Yeah, I'm a long ways away from being able to afford a 5L engine.  Now, re:  defensive weapons like paint and smoke.  My thoughts were:  Assume you're not going to be able to run away successfully, since a Boxvan will never outrun an enemy Biter or Longshot, for example.  You'll eventually run out of ammo, and if the enemy is not disabled by then, then you're screwed.  In which case, better to stick with direct-damage weapons that can be used to actually disable/demo the enemy.  This is, however, Just A Theory(TM).  What do you think?  Nekojin said: I've found that accurately-aimed explosive weapons (RLs, CCs, whatever) can really kill a chasing car's momentum. I have been wondering about this "imparted momentum" thing.  I've noticed HMGs tend to impart quite a bit of momentum but do it in a "straight-back" manner.  For example, I've twice been able to stop a charging Pulverizer dead in its tracks with sustained HMG fire, but it was still pointed at me.  RLs, on the other hand, impart slightly less momentum, but do it in more of a translational manner, giving the target vehicle some amount of spin in a random direction.  So 4x HMG hits could stop a vehicle entirely but not alter its heading, while 4x RL hits could have it still moving but pointed in a different direction, which could precipitate a spin or a flip, depending on the vehicle's config and velocity.  Which do you think is more useful?  ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 25, 2010, 11:34 pm Last edited Jan 26, 2010, 12:11 am by Zephyr

metrocube 12th Street Bangers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Members Posts: 790 Joined: May 2, 2009 I have two successful box van configurations for solo courier/travel. Dual HMG for short runs with skilled gunners. http://dark-wind.com/vehicle.php?id=113392 HMG/FOJ for long hauls http://dark-wind.com/vehicle.php?id=149189 ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 25, 2010, 11:35 pm

*Marc5iver* 5ive Crew Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 1,354 Joined: Oct 10, 2008 Nekojin said: Marc5iver said: With my Lorrys I use two apaches with rear HMG and CR. No weapons at all on lorry as it just runs. Apaches hang back and run interference until lorry can get away. Are those disposable Apaches, or do you actually have them win or escape? Edit: One more suggestion: I've found that accurately-aimed explosive weapons (RLs, CCs, whatever) can really kill a chasing car's momentum. No the Apaches are not disposable. They blow everything away that comes within range and win by either demoing all or if they can get to 350 way, they will autoescape. Just depends on how agressive the pirates are. ......................... vet wv gwextrav e2g marshal pvp4 pvp3 pvp2 Posted Jan 25, 2010, 11:48 pm

Procyon Weak Head Normal Forms Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 384 Joined: May 31, 2009 I've had great luck with a solo, A armor box van, 2xHMG rear and a 5L engine. The HMG not only slows down the enemy, but speeds up the box van. With a 5L exposed, it's *fast*. If anything can catch up, it's generally a single musclecar which the HMGs make short work of. Also, 5L engines aren't that expensive. 5Lv8's will break the bank though. ......................... vet wv pvp3 Posted Jan 26, 2010, 12:07 am

simonmaxhill Drive Backwards BFFs Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,503 Joined: Mar 10, 2008 I'd run the boxvan solo with HSS up front and 1x HMG rear. 4L engine. Or with a Phoenix escort with your scout 1x HMG rear in it as well. Advantages: 1. keeps your CR down, minimizing opponents 2. Heavy Smoke Screen will allow you to escape ambushes and bad head-on spawns 3. HMG will give you speed boost and deter/slow pursuers I think adding the Pho is unnecessary, but the second vehicle isn't going to add considerably to the CR you encounter and will allow you to split up and give you a little more firepower. I think it'll diminish your cargo carrying ability, tho, because you're going to have to haul more gas. As for your original setup with four vehicles - you'd do better to just sink all your cash into a lorry with ReinRam/HSS front and side/rear dual HMGs. That can get out of most ambushes and plow through head-on spawns. The dual HMGs will give you some speed boost and deter pursuit effectively. And you'll have tons of leftover cargo space for fuel and missions. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 26, 2010, 1:44 am

Whiskey Whiskey Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 691 Joined: Sep 19, 2008 I would say the biggest thing you have to realize is that no matter what, you are going to lose a few. Don't risk what you can't afford to lose. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 26, 2010, 2:25 am

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,587 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Was out of pocket early in the discussion, but I'd still like to throw my 2 cents in... First - CR is based also on amount of armor. Run a lot and you edge your CR up there. So, I equipped my box vans (ran a TON of trips back and forth to camp early on) with A armor - 12 rear and 8 sides - 5 top and bottom. With a 5L (better yet a 5LV8) you usually take ZERO damage from weapons fire. You might take a hit or two from dune jumping, but that's it. Rear dropped weapons may not sound like much, but if they get close to you they are close enough to use them. You might take some rear damage, but as fast as this thing is you don't usually let them get that close. Be careful with boxers... I got VERY used to them when running back and forth to camp and cold do pretty good, but you have to learn how to turn and learn how NOT to turn... ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted Jan 26, 2010, 4:39 am

*Lugal* Luna Sea Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 2,246 Joined: Jan 27, 2008 Zephyr said: I guess my question is, what are the odds of an ambush on the SS <--> Elms run at scout skill 65?  And does putting the scout in a buggy significantly help? Not sure what the actual bonus a buggy gets, but it is substantial - it is the best in the game.  Chassis is important - my 250 scout can get ambushed outside Somerset if she's in a landrunner (bad roll), but I've used a 100 scout-in-a-buggy on the SS - BL run without a single encounter (good rolls). Zephyr said: I figure, if I have a Boxvan (or, someday, a Lorry), I won't be able to run from encounters anyways, so might as well try to minimize them entirely. Generally, a lorry won't outrun anything.  A boxvan might.  A 5L boxvan likely will.  A 5Lv8 boxvan will.  The trick is, as Jimmy said, you need a decent trucker and you, the player, has to be familiar with them.  A boxvan will spin out, roll, etc stupid easy at 150 mph.  At 200 mph it's more an act of faith than driving. Zephyr said: Yeah, the rams on the Boxvan are really only there in case of a close-in ambush.  I could go with 1 ram and 1 HMG in front.  Or perhaps 1 ram + 1 RL, maybe to flip enemy Chompers. I'd recommend low-recoil weapons - even a simple MG can throw off enemy aim until you can get past.  Explosives are good "get outta my way" weapons. Joel Autobaun said: Get a FOJ or HFOJ for the boxer, even a couple squirts makes the npcs drive all over the place and get screwed up.. Absolutely.  With dropped weapons don't empty the mag on repeat fire.  Drop a slick/mine/spike etc every so often, especially at choke points, turns, etc.  Note that mines and spikes roll, but slicks deploy right where you drop 'em. Zephyr said: The MC escort idea is interesting.  My initial thought was, the van/lorry is big and slow, so no point escorting it with something fast.  But as a lure?  That makes sense.  But if even one of the pirates doesn't take the lure, the cargo vehicle could be hosed.  Or is the idea that the boxvan/lorry can deal with any un-lured pirates? The AI favors closer targets, but they also favor cargo chassis.  If the plan is to have them ignore the boxvan, it's a bit of a gamble.  Only the other hand, with a good gunner a rear-gun musclecar could hold off pursuers, then speed off once the cargo cars have escaped. Bear in mind the boxvan doesn't have to outrun the enemy as long as the enemy can't get past the rear-guard.  Run the boxvan as hard as you safely can, trailing with the rear-guard a bit slower.  Think of it as a rolling-roadblock.  Anything that's could catch your cargo vehicle needs its engine shot out by the rear-guard. Zephyr said: Does fuel tank size add to a vehicle's CR?  Because I'm running the tanker weaponless to keep my CR down.  I figured space in the boxvan and apaches is better used for weapons and ammo reloads.  How big of a tank do you need in apaches, boxvans, and lorrys to make it from SS to Elms? It's mainly (also like Jimmy said), armor adds CR, so every car you add, even unarmed ones, can really shoot up the CR of the squad.  It's more CR efficient to squeeze the fuel into the other cars than to bring a fuel car.  Sometimes ya need it - fuel cars are great for transferring combat/scout cars between towns. Zephyr said: Could you possibly fit a big enough fuel tank for a buggy for it to carry all its own fuel from SS to Elms?  Yup.  Buggies need very little gas. Zephyr said: Assume you're not going to be able to run away successfully, since a Boxvan will never outrun an enemy Biter or Longshot, for example.  You'll eventually run out of ammo, and if the enemy is not disabled by then, then you're screwed.  In which case, better to stick with direct-damage weapons that can be used to actually disable/demo the enemy.  This is, however, Just A Theory(TM).  What do you think? A 'b' armored 4L boxvan laden with cargo won't outrun the faster AI cars, but with some dropped weapons slowing them, and a direct-fire gun cutting down the ones that reach you, you'll be fine. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Jan 26, 2010, 6:32 am

Bytten The Bytten Squad Autodueller Renegade Group: Members Posts: 449 Joined: Oct 23, 2008 Nekojin said: Are those disposable Apaches, or do you actually have them win or escape? <--- mind boggles at thought of disposable Apaches. That said, I like to use phoenixes in much the same capacity. They can usually run interference, and then just run. ......................... vet wv Posted Jan 31, 2010, 3:57 pm

kometen Road Lords Racer Privateers Faction Group: Members Posts: 190 Joined: Feb 2, 2008 procyon's point about the rear HMGs providing propulsion is a very important one. If you spawn on a slope going down with the enemy in front and you want to turn and run, accelerating once you've turned around can be difficult especially in sand. Keep your eyes open for rocket boosters. They can be pricey, but one of those mounted to the back can make all the difference when climbing. When I started running a lorry all over Evan I put a rocket booster on the back and it saved me many many times. ......................... vet wv deathrce10,4,1 Posted Feb 1, 2010, 5:26 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Turn and run? Mount a heavy smoke and ram on the front and charge them down! ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Feb 1, 2010, 6:02 am

Stingray191 Bladerunners Darkwind Guru Deathrace Mafia Faction Group: Members Posts: 678 Joined: Dec 9, 2008 Also nice to have the cars carry their own fuel if you ever run fuel cans. if they can't make it all the way fuel cans will be used up before your fuel piggy's supplies. Found that out the hard way on my first trip out of Texan. ......................... vet wv elmsautumn e2g ww Posted Feb 1, 2010, 8:53 am

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