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Idea: Fodder

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 It would be cool if there was a subset of your gangers that were just fodder. You could call them freelance mercenaries, rogues, or whatever. The idea behind these gangers is that you KNOW from the very moment you get them, you're going to lose them. Even if they don't die a glorious death in combat, they will get restless and quit your gang after 6 months. Other than that they would train up like normal gang members. Joining stats could be an average of the skill levels of all your regular gangers. So advanced players get to hire advanced fodder. The virtue of this idea is creating a mechanism whereby people aren't so terrified of losing gang members. To increase the willingness to pvp. But also so that sam could implement arbitrary and brutal thing like logging in to find that 3 of your guys were killed last night in a bar brawl. It's a way to bring more death and mayhem to the world without all the usual player whining. Just an undeveloped idea..... ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 5:22 pm Last edited May 5, 2009, 5:24 pm by Jety

*Lugal* Luna Sea Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 2,246 Joined: Jan 27, 2008 I just keep some character slots tagged as expendable, and use 'em for town events. When they go down I just grab a new one, not worrying about recruiting someone good. If the new recruit happens to have impressive stats, I'll switch them out with an older, less appealing character. The new guy joins a regular crew, and the old guy joins the expendables. Collectively, I call them the "Liaison Detail" ......................... vet marshal wv Posted May 5, 2009, 5:59 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 Right, I'm sure everyone has this, but these guys hire on as skilled gangers (some decent reflection of how skilled your overall gang is) making them actually useful for things like (and specifically aimed at) camp warfare. The have a high contract rate, so they are also a money sink. ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 6:29 pm

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 that is an idea there... we dont have to level them up, they are that way anyway. they could be under an expensive contract if we keep them too long... similar to how people will hire out their mechanics to camps... only issue here is they have a chance to get killed ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 6:43 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,036 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 what about gangs who built up there leader to get extra guys, perhaps the number of guys you can hire depends on yer leader score. otherwise rich players can just hire them without any good leadership score. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,3 Posted May 5, 2009, 7:16 pm

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,677 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 I think this is a good idea. Very pro pvp ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted May 5, 2009, 7:24 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 I disapprove of this idea. All my gangers are expendable. They could die any race, any scout, or even of old age. Doesn't matter if they have 20 trucking skill or 300+ guns, 300+ scouting and 600+ leadership. The wastelands are a hostile place to live. Keep them that way. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted May 5, 2009, 7:24 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 I <3 Serephe. But for everyone else, there's mercenaries. ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 7:33 pm

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,605 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 Didn't want to be the first one to jump in with a negative... I agree that this is more of a way to run your gang and not that extras are needed. JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted May 5, 2009, 8:19 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Jety has written some more detailed info on this in a PM to me. I can definitely see the merits in the idea, but as I said to him the key thing really is whether the community agrees to the basic concept rather than the detail. Do we want expendable/non-core/mercenary characters? If yes, I can see this as a good money-sink too: mercenaries have high salaries and contracts that need to be renegotiated in a competitive environment, i.e. other players can out-bid you and steal them from your roster. If no, it's probably not worth fleshing out. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 5, 2009, 8:55 pm Last edited May 5, 2009, 9:00 pm by *sam*

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,605 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, if you, Sam, see the merits, then I have to back up and say I'd be willing to look at it rather than say no up front. That being said, though, the best part I can see is being "out bid" by another player. Makes it a resource and not just part of your gang... JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted May 5, 2009, 9:02 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 From Sam Quote: I can see a nice dynamic around the contracts - e.g. why not outbid each other and steal each other's mercenaries? -- similar to a football team -- excellent money-sink too. Rather than automatically losing them after a period of time, you simply need to renegotiate their contract. This would be a cool level of depth and dimension as well. But fundamentally the concern I'm trying to address is player's unwillingness to PvP. Losing skilled gangers is a huge disincentive. PvPing with new recruits is... well boring. You might as well duel with stock cars in an arena. I agree wholeheartedly with Serephe that every player should be willing to dive in and sacrifice their gangers when the call arises. But realistically, after training a ganger for 12 months, who the hell wants to just toss it away like nothing. The real thrust of this idea is to give players the tools to wreck mayhem upon each other without losing tens or hundred of hours of invested time. That's the root of the idea, but taking it and running with it there are all sorts of cool things that could be implemented that really just need expendable gangers. Suicide missions, bar brawls, the much discussed idea of taking hostages, etc.... ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 9:04 pm

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,782 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 I wasn't trying to make a pitch for or against, I was really just saying I can see that his argument has merit. I could probably be convinced either way, plus I'm not a very active player myself so my grasp of the subtelties is probably weaker than many of yours. So it's really not about what my opinion is, it's what the majority of the community thinks. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted May 5, 2009, 9:04 pm

Parapsycho DW eSports Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 644 Joined: May 23, 2006 I dont really like the 'bidding' idea. It makes sense from a roleplaying standpoint, but what would keep a more wealthy gang from just stealing my mercenaries out of spite? Perhaps, the willingness of the mercenary to stay could be based on overall gang morale. If it gets too low, they start looking elsewhere. At that point, maybe they demand a higher salary, and you can choose whether or not to give them what they want. Edit: In general, I like the idea of mercenaries. They would be nice to take out on ped scouts. ......................... vet wv paintladder Posted May 5, 2009, 9:06 pm Last edited May 5, 2009, 9:08 pm by ParaPsycho

*jimmylogan* MADHAT Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Marshals + Rule Council Posts: 5,605 Joined: Jun 11, 2008 [quote=Jety]fundamentally the concern I'm trying to address is player's unwillingness to PvP. Losing skilled gangers is a huge disincentive. PvPing with new recruits is... well boring. You might as well duel with stock cars in an arena.[/quote] What's to keep someone from saying "I paid good money for these guys! I need to scout with them to recoup my investment..." Bottom line, if PvP is your goal, I commend you, but I don't think tweaking the mechanics of the game to suit PvP are the answer. (yes, I agree with the camp changes and Sam's attempt to give a REASON to PvP - but this doesn't give a reason, it just addresses a reason you would normally NOT do it) Now, that being said, I'm not out to lose my high skilled gunners either, but I'm looking forward to the day that I won't know when I go out scouting or on an escort if I'll run into another human or not... I know some are against it, but I'm beginning to sense the excitement it can bring. Sorry - tangent there... JL ......................... vet marshal deathrceL1 wv community combatL1 Posted May 5, 2009, 9:13 pm Last edited May 5, 2009, 9:13 pm by *jimmylogan*

ISHOULDCOCO COCO and the BURPERS Darkwind Guru Civs Faction Group: Storytellers Posts: 1,440 Joined: Jul 5, 2007 I like the idea Either pre-skill them up to 50% ofyou average character skills orjust for them. Great money sink -solves PVP Non camp owners have something to spend money on COCO ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 9:29 pm

Marrkos 88 MPH Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,711 Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Wouldn't this upset the current camp fame paradigm if gangs can just throw skilled fodder into the Camp War Grinder, rather than risking their 'real' assets? ......................... vet wv community Posted May 5, 2009, 9:35 pm

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 I get the feeling that many aspects of camp fame aren't set in stone yet. I believe in the original camp fame post, sam said he was still looking for ideas to tie into the idea of camp fame. So it should be pretty easy for something like this to play nicely with what's already going on. Also, since you pay money for these mercenaries, they are very much "real assets". I do definitely think some checks need to be in place to prevent the richest of the rich from profiting off a new system. I'm hoping this would be more of an equalizer than rich-getting-richer type deal. ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 10:03 pm Last edited May 5, 2009, 10:05 pm by Jety

Whiskey Whiskey Runners Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 691 Joined: Sep 19, 2008 Why not just let us buy gangers like we buy vehicles? Go to the market and pick a skill 150 gunner with sniper, rapid shot, rocketeer specialims. The system calculates the value and gives you a character meeting your requirements and bills you for their exorbitant weekly salary plus maybe paying a one-time finder fee to Dexter. Not everything is available in the market at any given time. Same with characters. Just because you want a Lvl3 Laser spec with 300+ skill and 90 speed doesn't mean one is available. Create individual reps for characters. Positive rep characters are known to honor their contracts and not take bribes to change employers. Negative rep characters are known to be unreliable and will jump ship to whoever can pay the most. When we go to Dexter's to buy a character, some of the ones we are offered may be low or negative rep characters from other gangs. Recruiter spec for the leader improves the chance of getting the gangers you want. Motivator spec for the leader improves retention of hired guns. ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 10:11 pm Last edited May 5, 2009, 10:16 pm by TKWPrime

Mad Mike the mad mad crushers Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Members Posts: 2,900 Joined: Aug 1, 2007 after careful thought I think the idea isnt good. When PvP hits the highest skilled characters will start to get killed and the playing field will level itself out. by having our characters at risk we will learn how to keep our most prized gangers safe and know which characters are expendable. On a side note I think one thing that would quell the issue of losing high skill characters would be the skills from PvP are huge, 10+ points per encounter... this makes sense. we already get higher skill p[oints for fighting in tough areas like BL, I think we would get even more benefit from PvPing cuz the other side should be harder to fight against. If our characters learn fast in combat we wont mind losuing a ganger every 4th or 5th fight cuz after that they will have high skills. example. large gunner starts at 20. first fight 10 point second fight 10 points third fight 10 points now they are a 50 large gunner... if they get killed in the fourth battle we didnt lose much because he rose to 50 in a week or two. this will also enhance PvP cuz if a gang member can gain as high as 12 points in gunnery per fight, then the incentive to PvP is all that much more. Someone decent at PvP will not lose gang members every fight, lose a character every couple of fights..... back to the thread idea. I have to say no, we have other ways to make PvP better. And that way is to make PvP a no brainer as far as incentives to that anyone not doing PvP can see that doing PvP is wayy better ......................... vet wv Posted May 5, 2009, 10:12 pm

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