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Garage Fees and Lockup Fees

lordbam Nephilim Rising Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Members Posts: 1,410 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 *Grograt* said: my vehicle collection is far from large. In SS: 6 apaches. 10 phoenixes. in BL: 3BPU 3 buccys 6 buzzers 1 FT 4 expensive muscle cars. that is a garage that would keep you busy. it doesn't need to get much bigger. Howmuch weekly fee will you be paying? 50-60K tops? A garage like that should easily cover your expenses. You don't have time to scout, well then you don't need 6 buzzers... Grograt, i'm not picking on you, i'm just using you as an example. ......................... vet wv zom0,3,0 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:04 am

*Grograt* Grograts Gonads Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 8,377 Joined: Oct 5, 2008 i understand Bam its because i am the only one posting, just please remember when you started and the joy of collecting those rares you own. If im wrong in my opinions so be it, i cant continuously post the same reasons i consider this hard for me this all seems that its hurting friendships as well as the game for me at present, best i bow out of this conversation. 87k garage fees 7k lock up fees, before i make anything for repairs repaints ammo fuel etc ......................... vet marshal wv community Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:10 am Last edited Aug 28, 2009, 12:12 am by *Grograt*

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 gro.. its not 'my way or the highway' ... i am simply putting forwards the point of view that if the game is glorified top trumps then its not what i want to play... frankly I'm really disappointed... I felt Sam had made a brave move to make the game more challenging... I hoped that people would realise that the collector urge keeps a very few people in the game and that for every collector a whole bunch of gamers leave... I thought people would say.. lets try it and see... ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:17 am

*Lugal* Luna Sea Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals Posts: 2,246 Joined: Jan 27, 2008 Alright, time for another book. Chapter One: The Early Years Lugal said: I'd support raising storage fees, past a certain point.  That way there would be a financial 'cushion' for newer players, but would either discourage large-scale hording or be a money sink for established players. Doc quoted me in the other announcement thread, from a discussion quite a while back.  That might even have been during my RC days, but I can't recall for certain. I still stand by that opinion. I like the proposal.  Sure, maybe the actual numbers should be tweaked (and they will, I'm sure), but I think this is needed. There is nothing wrong with hoarding equipment and cars, but there's a realistic need for financial output to protect said equipment and cars.  You can RP this however you want - garage space, private security, propaganda - it doesn't matter. But as a simple game mechanic, you probably shouldn't be able to store scores of cars in a single town at a cost nominally more than someone who only has a single car in the same town. Sure, a lot of things are simulated (didn't know about the ammo - that's actually really nice to not micromanage the costs like that), but it has to be grounded (somewhat) in reality.  You don't have 'bank slots' that exist in pocket dimension; these vehicles have a socioeconomic footprint as well as a physical one.  I consider myself to be an established but casual player.  I'm looking around $60k per week to maintain my fleets and lockups.  Personally, I think I have too many cars, because I'm a packrat.  (my cost is relatively low because most are gathering dust in Somerset, as opposed to gathering dust elsewhere).  For the sake of argument, let's just go with the current numbers.  I'm looking at $60k a week, so I have to make a value judgement.  Increase income to cover the increase in overhead, or decrease my stock to sufficiently lower overhead?  The right answer is up to me, as it is for everyone based on their playstyle and values. In other words, if you want to play collector, you have to pay for it. Chapter Two: Yes, I'm still talking. The other side of this as a game mechanic is that it's a money sink, and I think it's a good one. It forces you to pay to have more.  This is good design for a money sink, because new players aren't going to see any hit, but the very wealthy will see a large hit.  (again, the values can be tweaked; I'm focusing on the mechanic itself.) It makes perfect sense within the setting.  It's not some arbitrary tax code inflated based on income levels. Everyone needs to bear in mind that a money sink is a money sink.  It makes economically excessive currency disappear back into the system.  As in, you have less of it, because you have so much that inflation threatens the game stability.  If you have millions of dollars (or tens of millions) in the bank, and you are upset at the prospect of a money sink actually working, take a moment. In closing... So sure, we look at the numbers.  We bounce them around.  Even in the end, some folks will be upset.  That's not intended, but not all development - not all improvement - to the game is going to be embraced universally. ......................... vet marshal wv Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:22 am

Jety Cuddle Fiesta Darkwind Guru Badlands Truckstop Faction Group: Members Posts: 910 Joined: May 9, 2008 Just wanted to inject this tidbit: As far as money sinks are concerned, my camp has gobbled up about 13 mil in the last 4 months. I believe lattes has gobbled about 16 mil. That's not insignificant. Nor is it really sustainable. ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:33 am Last edited Aug 28, 2009, 12:36 am by Jety

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 Jety said: I believe lattes has gobbled about 16 mil. That's not insignificant. Nor is it really sustainable. yes it is given that in the past year of gameplay i have seen (unless i am mistaken) latte anounce first hitting the 20 million mark and then the 40 million.. its a pittance when taken against the actual income from gangs that are that big and the actual costs of running those gangs. And I dont see anywhere your comparable figure for the game value of good Produced by those camps.... how much is an ambulance worth? so yeah it is sustainable... i have put something like 5 million dollars into Airstrip 1 and Bedlam,,, i still have a bank balance of 6.5 million today and thats funding camps that dont make anything for me at all. Now i may be wrong but i believe the investment people make in their camps is entirely part of the collector drive... its the only way people can get ambulances out of them... you didnt HAVE to spend that money to run an effective repair facility in camp .. you CHOSE to because you wanted something. The amount of cash you spent on it simply reflects its market value to you (if you doubt that put it up for sale.. there will be plenty of people who will but it even though they have seen your figures). Latte does not have to buy spnsorships.. he chooses to to enable him to make baubles (this is NOT a critiscism Latte.. i actually think i understand what you gfet out of the game and i dont want to see you prevented from getting that - but i honestly dont believe these changes will prevent people owing what they really want to own) Camps are a money sink in the game.... and despite this they havnt stopped the bank balances spiralling out of control... I was speaking to hula today and he told me that he started he found camps in the wild and sold them.... for $50k ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 1:04 am

*Longo* Longos Merry Men Darkwind Guru Mutants Faction Group: Marshals Posts: 6,659 Joined: Dec 15, 2007 WE have seen one too many "I"s and "MY"s in this thread. WE all play this game in a different way. If WE, the majority thinks this may hurt OUR gameplay, then maybe WE should request this be tweaked a little bit. And dont tell ME to sell MY stuff. I don't want to hear how exited YOU are to buy the explosion of cheap rares in the market because MY god your game play sux and YOU cannot earn the stuff YOURSELF. I dont want to hear how easy it is for YOU to maintain YOUR gang; that WE should be like YOU and play like YOU. I don't want to play like YOU. Maybe I dont even like YOU. I don't want to hear about YOUR gang of 2-3 cars and how good this new change will effect YOU, because it WONT. -------------------------------------------------------------- I want to hear how YOU, the casual gamer, will be effected by this. Will it slow YOUR game and will WE see less of YOU? I hope not. I want to hear how YOU love this game because there are so many cool skins and chassis that you can gather and collect. WE are not the same as YOU. On some days, WE scout about 8 squads consecutively, so WE need 14-24 cars in a row. If WE don't have these, WE will only scout 25% as much When WE get bored, WE scout different towns. WE need cars in every town, because WE use travel cars to get to the new town, and want some ready to go when WE get there. Less down time, more scouting. Take these away, more down time, less scouting. Sometimes, WE do Pro events. WE need a few different racers, deathrace cars, and arena cars in order to do this. Take these away and these already seldom played events will become extinct..too bad. Sometimes WE help camps out. WE use lorries for this. Without these, WE dont help camps anymore. Sometimes WE fights pirates. Sometimes WE fight traders. Each type of scout takes a different type of car setup. With less cars, WE may not be able to do this. WE may have to scout less. WE have a large bankroll. WE earned it. If WE want PVP, WE need to make it work. NO FEES in Shantytown. I got 2 damn cars there. I wont have ANY if you charge me X6! There will always be heavy gamers, medium gamers, casual gamers, and light gamers in any MMORG. WE must accept it and treat all fairly across the board. Sign me Longo, the Terrible ......................... vet combatL1 ped1 paintladder semiprocombat ped2 wv pvp4 pvp1 gwped paintball pvp3 pvp5 slay2013 marshal circuit2 combat1 e2g raceL1 gwextrav gateautumn pvp2 triangle1 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 2:13 am

Group: Posts: 0 Joined: Today Posted Today, 7:55 am

*sam* The Salthill Sluggerz Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Lead Developer Posts: 16,780 Joined: Jan 19, 2006 Compromise is definitely the key, and Longo is quite right that there's an issue regarding different playstyles - casual players in particular I think. ......................... marshal vet deathrce1 paintladder combat1 wv ped1 cont slay2013 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 11:35 am

Swift Dead Men Driving Pedestrian Renegade Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: May 26, 2009 I like the changes and think they are for the better. Before, once you get the hang of the game, money becomes useless. I could make 500k a week in solo scouts and did spend like 20k doing that. And I prefer to go and "earn stuff (my)YOURSELF", as Longo advises. And I do scouts in SS not really for money, but for training newbie gangers. Why do I get paid for it so much? No money sinks? No camp until I get 10 mln. to pay for it? Not much want to have camp either? Ridiculous. But after talking and reading a bit, I think the system could use some tweaks. 1. Make it so theres no need to pay for first 3-5 vehicles in truckstops. There can be RP reasons for that. Like for example the owners need some "guard" vehicles so they use some incentive for gangs to keep vehicles there. Or its incentive for traders to pass through them and buy owners fuel. After that, the prices are exorbitant. Lack of space and all that. 2. Pay much more money for winning pro races. They should pay for itself, so there would be no need to scout for pro racers. Armor repairs for qualification (say 4k, A armor) + armor repairs for race (8k) + a few weeks worth garage cost (8k) + bonus (x2) = 40k for 1st place sounds about right. 3. The rest should stay as it is (or rather, as it going to be on 3rd September. Maybe be even costlier). The idea is to force funneling rare/non used stuff to SS for hoarders (where it could be seen in newbie scouts and pro races and give additional incentives for newbies to branch out), make it easy for people to branch out into truckstops, make it easy for casual players that play once a month to keep some battle vehicles in truckstops for more interesting scouting options (you can scout almost all maps from there, do you), and make some money sinks along the way. Unfortunately, there will be time sinks created too (funneling to SS and money making for hoarders). Well, we don't destroy your ability to hoard. It's just made more meaningful process -- where the game tries to force you to make meaningful choices what and where to hoard and so make each car you keep more precious. If that's a problem, let's have a vote on elimination of concept of money from the game outright. Because if money becomes meaningless so fast and so completely (well, it did for me , why have it at all? One caveat: uncontrollable hoarding kept rare stuff rare. With these changes, next round of tweaks might be to make rare stuff, well, rare again. No more razorbacks in SS, no more BPUs in GW, etc. EDITS: readability and mistakes. ......................... vet e2g deathrce1 ww Posted Aug 28, 2009, 11:35 am Last edited Aug 28, 2009, 2:30 pm by Swift

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 sorry longo ..i dont recognise this 'WE' people can only speak from their own experience and it seems to me that there is simply 2 types of gamer here. I'm not sure there can be a compromise between the challenge and collecting because the one negates the other. I'm afraid that there are a very small number of people here and if it is the game play of the majority who are here now that is making lots of other people leave then they are not the majority. Its like going to france... changing it so its not very french. waiting for all the french people to leave because they dont like it and then saying the majority of people in France like it the way it is. ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 11:38 am

Group: Posts: 0 Joined: Today Posted Today, 7:55 am

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 I'd like to say I'm part of the challenge crew -- the best fun I've had since I started playing again was on a return yesterday, when both my vehicles were breached in multiple places before I finally managed to demoralize the last pirate car. Sure, now my cars need to be repaired -- and now I have to wait to scout as much as I usually do -- but that is the cost of FUN. It wouldn't be fun if I could just replace it with a snap of my fingers. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:25 pm

*viKKing* Skulls And Bones Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Marshals + Contributors Posts: 4,249 Joined: Oct 12, 2006 goat starer said: Its like going to france... changing it so its not very french. waiting for all the french people to leave because they dont like it and then saying the majority of people in France like it the way it is. What's your real address already?  ......................... vet cont zom slay2013 marshal wv Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:32 pm

*goat starer* Special Circumstances Darkwind Guru Evan Reds Faction Group: Contributors Posts: 10,907 Joined: Oct 29, 2007 *SirLatte* said: goat starer said: Its like going to france... changing it so its not very french. waiting for all the french people to leave because they dont like it and then saying the majority of people in France like it the way it is. Hmmm...man that sure is a nice thought though....of course would suck for where ever the french left to go to  LOL - that gave me my first laugh on here in days... cheers Latte ......................... vet wv zom pvp4 cont community deathrceL1 marshal pvp3 pvp2 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 12:56 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 Why not try 1x/2x/3x rather than 1x/3x/6x then? And perhaps value of loot when sold to the shops in the more expensive to live areas. ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 1:16 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,008 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 i cant see how much new rules will cost cause im unsubbed or in vacation mode cant see the cost of garage fees can see the wages. ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 4:58 pm

Serephe Collision Force Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Members Posts: 3,496 Joined: Dec 9, 2007 IMO it should be really cheap for you Spanky because http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU . ......................... vet wv paintladder ww0,3,0 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 5:04 pm

darthspanky McSPANKYS LOLLIPOP GANSTAS Darkwind Guru Anarchists Faction Group: Subscribers Posts: 4,008 Joined: Jul 29, 2007 no those are the guys from docs gang lol hes the piratre king ......................... vet paintball wv1,0,1 Posted Aug 28, 2009, 5:10 pm

Fealty Lost Slaughterhouse: Bloody Remains Darkwind Guru Renegade Group: Subscribers Posts: 1,258 Joined: Jan 6, 2009 I used to have a bank account...that I had figured would last me quite a while before I decided to come back and start killing things again... ...imagine my surprise when my cash went away. I like having lots of vehicles, because I scout BIG...12+ cars each scout, usually 15 at a time...so I need 50 vehicles in one place to maintain my play style. Now I can't. I'm not into collecting anything...having a camp...making tons of cash...I finally moved to Elms...and now am getting hosed for it? Why? Tell you what...I'll just move all my vehicles OUTSIDE...since having a space for them really doesn't do anything for you...so that should take care of the 'storage' fees, right? If they're parked out in the dirt...who's storing anything? My gangers can just sleep IN them, since I don't actually have a base/camp/place to call home anyway. Since we have to pay the town shop to maintain and fix our vehicles anyway, that should take care of all my costs, yes? Cool...now stop taking my money please. Serephe...how about 0x/0x/0x? ......................... vet wv Posted Aug 28, 2009, 5:11 pm

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